Do you recommend spaying young new sows?

[Gadzy]

Hello,

After loosing my lovely Coco a few days ago and Fudge last year, I have thought long and hard about whether I get some more soon. I will probably give it another couple of weeks before jumping in.

My question is do you recommend getting sows spayed at an early age due to the common problems that occur if you don’t? Fudge I think had ovarian cancer which spread and Coco had a cyst resulting in all kinds of issues inside. All a little bit vague on diagnosis on both, albeit correct I think. My other two before had slightly different issues which resulted in passing. I could speak to my vet and see what she thinks. Some have said I was just unlucky with the last 2 which both had ovary issues, but I know ovarian cysts seem very very likely and common. Is there anything you can do to help prevent them? I don’t think there would be due to just how the female reproductive system works and it’s just that. I hope someone can give me some insight and look forward to hearing from you

Many thanks

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

Like with boar neutering, it all depends on your access to a vet with ideally experience and a good track record in guinea pig de-sexing operations as it is a major operation. In sows, this can be a full spay (removal of the entire reproductive tract) or just an ovariectomy (i.e. removal of just the ovaries from the back, but leaving the womb in).

While the USA generally favours sow ovariectomies over boar neutering (removal of the testicles), in the UK, boar neutering is more common - mainly because a spay or ovariectomy is a lot more expensive than a boar neuter in the UK.

Neither of these operations have a faultless track record. In sows in recent years it has been hanging roughly in the balance although the vast majority have been emergency ops due to cyst problems in adult/older sows. You have to be aware that any operation not coming off leaves you with some serious feelings of guilt but this is usually much worse in the case of elective surgery.

What you also need to take into consideration is that de-sexing is not an automatic ticket to a long life in my own experience. Your sows will just die of other health issues and they will live about as long as their not spayed counterparts. They will simply not die from cyst-related problems.

In my own experience, spayed sows are unfortunately not any more accepting or easier to bond to boars (either full or neutered), either. Especially not as they get older. You also cannot add a spayed sow to a boar pair or group, either. They may not come into season anymore but they still emit sow pheromones and act like sows socially.

As to my personal experience, I have adopted about 3 spayed sows (not for that reason, though; they just happened to be spayed) and have had several more of my own sows spayed because of ovarian cysts issues and one because her womb went badly wrong. They lived all to about 5-8 years, like the vast majority of my piggies, including unspayed sows.
Thankfully, I have access to the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton which are the best for fiddly piggy ops and I have not lost a sow or boar with them in a spay or neutering op.

Sow Problems 'Down Below' (Ovarian Cysts, Super-seasons, Womb Infection, Pregnancy & Mammary Tumours)

I hope that these considerations help you.

 

[Gadzy]

Hi

Like with boar neutering, it all depends on your access to a vet with ideally experience and a good track record in guinea pig de-sexing operations as it is a major operation. In sows, this can be a full spay (removal of the entire reproductive tract) or just an ovariectomy (i.e. removal of just the ovaries from the back, but leaving the womb in).

While the USA generally favours sow ovariectomies over boar neutering (removal of the testicles), in the UK, boar neutering is more common - mainly because a spay or ovariectomy is a lot more expensive than a boar neuter in the UK.

Neither of these operations have a faultless track record. In sows in recent years it has been hanging roughly in the balance although the vast majority have been emergency ops due to cyst problems in adult/older sows. You have to be aware that any operation not coming off leaves you with some serious feelings of guilt but this is usually much worse in the case of elective surgery.

What you also need to take into consideration is that de-sexing is not an automatic ticket to a long life in my own experience. Your sows will just die of other health issues and they will live about as long as their not spayed counterparts. They will simply not die from cyst-related problems.

In my own experience, spayed sows are unfortunately not any more accepting or easier to bond to boars (either full or neutered), either. Especially not as they get older. You also cannot add a spayed sow to a boar pair or group, either. They may not come into season anymore but they still emit sow pheromones and act like sows socially.

As to my personal experience, I have adopted about 3 spayed sows (not for that reason, though; they just happened to be spayed) and have had several more of my own sows spayed because of ovarian cysts issues and one because her womb went badly wrong. They lived all to about 5-8 years, like the vast majority of my piggies, including unspayed sows.
Thankfully, I have access to the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton which are the best for fiddly piggy ops and I have not lost a sow or boar with them in a spay or neutering op.

Sow Problems 'Down Below' (Ovarian Cysts, Super-seasons, Womb Infection, Pregnancy & Mammary Tumours)

I hope that these considerations help you.

That’s a great bit of information and help, thankyou! I thought exactly the same of doing an operation of my own election and something happening I wouldn’t forgive myself.

Maybe every year I could just get my vet to do an ultrasound check which they only charge 60 pounds for. However, if they can’t do the ultrasound conscious I definitely wouldn’t be doing that, but I think they potentially could depending on the character and jitteriness of the pig. I’m learning more about Guniea pigs each time I have them so I pickup on issues a lot quicker etc which again could help me in communicating with my vet. I’m definitely going to be getting more health checks throughout the year from the vets and not just taking them when their noticeably ill

Thankyou so much again and hope your well

 

[Wiebke]

That’s a great bit of information and help, thankyou! I thought exactly the same of doing an operation of my own election and something happening I wouldn’t forgive myself.

Maybe every year I could just get my vet to do an ultrasound check which they only charge 60 pounds for. However, if they can’t do the ultrasound conscious I definitely wouldn’t be doing that, but I think they potentially could depending on the character and jitteriness of the pig. I’m learning more about Guniea pigs each time I have them so I pickup on issues a lot quicker etc which again could help me in communicating with my vet. I’m definitely going to be getting more health checks throughout the year from the vets and not just taking them when their noticeably ill

Thankyou so much again and hope your well

Ultrasound and x-rays are done with a light sedation because in order for good pictures the piggy may need to be arranged in somewhat awkward positions. But it is only a ligh sedation and not a full-on operation GA.

 

[Wiebke]

That’s a great bit of information and help, thankyou! I thought exactly the same of doing an operation of my own election and something happening I wouldn’t forgive myself.

Maybe every year I could just get my vet to do an ultrasound check which they only charge 60 pounds for. However, if they can’t do the ultrasound conscious I definitely wouldn’t be doing that, but I think they potentially could depending on the character and jitteriness of the pig. I’m learning more about Guniea pigs each time I have them so I pickup on issues a lot quicker etc which again could help me in communicating with my vet. I’m definitely going to be getting more health checks throughout the year from the vets and not just taking them when their noticeably ill

Thankyou so much again and hope your well

Thank you. I am fine but still recovering from a family visit and a major event.

 

[Freela]

First off, I'm so sorry for your loss, it's never easy to have to say goodbye to a much-loved piggie!

I've had nine sows over the past 15+ years and maybe I've been lucky, but I've only experienced one reproductive issue that required vet intervention (an ovarian cyst that ruptured in an older girl, about 5.5 years.) She recovered and went on to live almost another year. Most of my issues have been dental (two pigs who required abscesses lanced and drained, one passed as a result of sepsis and the other recovered), bladder (one pig with a stone and persistent bladder problems, another couple pigs who had occasional bladder infections), or URI (usually in pigs who were already 5+ or had an underlying health issue.) Out of pigs I've lost under the age of 6, neither were of reproductive causes- one died at 18 months due to a tooth root infection that turned to sepsis and only had hyperthyroidism for an unknown reason and just as we were getting her to put on weight with meds she developed a URI and passed away at 3.5 years. Out of the pigs who died older, none was specifically from reproductive causes- one developed a tumor in her digestive system and the rest appeared totally fine until becoming lethargic and passing away within hours. So I would't go in thinking that uterine/ovarian problems are inevitable... yes, they can happen, but many sows go their whole lives without an issue.

If you've got a vet that's experienced with guinea pig surgeries, it might give you peace of mind to know you're avoiding issues you've encountered in the past. In my area, most vets aren't really experienced with guinea pig spays so the risk would probably outweigh any potential benefits. Of course there are risks with any surgery, so you'd have to weigh it carefully going in and talk to your vet to see their comfort level with doing preventatitve spays.

Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[LucyP]

In the last few years, all 4 of our rescue pig girls have been diagnosed with small ovarian cysts- not diagnosed because of any obvious issues, but they were spotted during routine examinations or scans that were being done for other issues. We didn’t spay any of them so far.

Two of the girls later died from unrelated issues. The other two are still with us and are older ladies now. Winnie was diagnosed with two small cysts when she was about 1 years old, found during a routine check up when the vet palpated her. (Their presence was later confirmed when she had an x ray for something totally different). As the cysts are small (about 1cm) and not apparently causing issues or getting any bigger touch wood (Winnie is now 6 and a half and they are still considered to be very small cysts) we monitor them at their 6 monthly check ups. Of course if there are signs of issues we will go back to the vets sooner and not wait for the check up. (As it happens we’re always at the vets for something it seems and so they get quite regular once overs). The decision not to operate was made based on various discussions with the vets (including our experienced exotics surgeon vet) and influenced by potential concern about operating risks due to other health reasons (respiratory disease, previous health issues etc). The vet felt we could make a case for operating and equally make a case for watching and waiting, so we went with the latter. It wasn’t to do with money but more our concerns about how good a candidate for surgery they would be and the fact they seemed fine as they were.

I appreciate that others in our situation may have chosen to spay as soon as cysts were mentioned.

If there are future signs of issues we would of course revisit this decision in the best interest of the piggy. We’re not against operations but on balance feel that leaving it was ok.

Interestingly the vets did a study of incidental findings on a large number of piggy CT scans (ie where they found things they weren’t necessarily looking for when scanning) and apparently previously undetected ovarian cysts in sows was quite common, to the point that with intact girls over a certain age, the vets said they tend to assume many or even most will probably get cysts at some point. (The other common incidental finding was arthritis I think). I can’t remember the numbers though.

Not sure if that helps at all but good luck with your piggies and sorry you’ve had some bad experiences. I should add I am definitely not a health expert!

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

Some have said I was just unlucky with the last 2 which both had ovary issues, but I know ovarian cysts seem very very likely and common. Is there anything you can do to help prevent them?

German rescues say that keeping a boar (neutered of course!) with your sows helps prevent ovarian cysts. A vet I mentioned that to said that's nonsense, otoh there are no really guinea pig savvy vets in my town and area. I don't have enough medical/biological knowledge and thinking skills to know who is correct, but just thought I'd mention it.

I personally wouldn't get a sow spayed unless she absolutely needed that medically. I wouldn't do it just for preventive reasons. As far as I know it's a much bigger op than neutering a boar, and more expensive too.

 

[Gadzy]

Thankyou @Wiebke @LucyP @Freela and @Mrs Tiggy Winkle for the feedback. I think my gut instinct is to not have them spayed if I get some more and just have more routine checkups. Maybe every 6 months or so. It’s strange my last ones I didn’t feel any fear of getting some more, but this time it’s affected me a little more and more worried about getting some. I think because the diagnosis of the 2 girls that just past was very difficult and the decisions I had to make with them was a lot more torn. It could be the fact that it’s still too soon to get more. It’s strange, but I haven’t had this feeling before. I think both having ovarian issues has made me worry about the potential issues for other sows in the future. Are cysts and ovary issues genetic related? I wonder if I could ask more about the mothers/fathers of new pigs to have an idea of what they may potentially deal with. Although I can’t see them being honest about that?

 

[Freela]

Thankyou @Wiebke @LucyP @Freela and @Mrs Tiggy Winkle for the feedback. I think my gut instinct is to not have them spayed if I get some more and just have more routine checkups. Maybe every 6 months or so. It’s strange my last ones I didn’t feel any fear of getting some more, but this time it’s affected me a little more and more worried about getting some. I think because the diagnosis of the 2 girls that just past was very difficult and the decisions I had to make with them was a lot more torn. It could be the fact that it’s still too soon to get more. It’s strange, but I haven’t had this feeling before. I think both having ovarian issues has made me worry about the potential issues for other sows in the future. Are cysts and ovary issues genetic related? I wonder if I could ask more about the mothers/fathers of new pigs to have an idea of what they may potentially deal with. Although I can’t see them being honest about that?

I think it's normal in the grieving process to look for reasons why, and to want to protect yourself from future heartache, and I'm wondering if that's a part of why you feel this way. It helps you feel like you can exert some control over something (death and loss) that is itself ultimately NOT something we can control. I've been there myself- many years ago I lost a very loved hedgehog, Hawthorne, at 3.5 years, to uterine cancer. It was a very traumatic loss for me, so I determined that my next hedgehog would definitely be a boy because that would prevent me having to deal with uterine cancer again. My next hedgehog, Bram, was a little boy, also very sweet, and though he obviously did not develop uterine cancer, I actually lost him at 2, a younger age than I had lost Hawthorne, to a neurological condition. I guess the point is that, much as I made choices in an effort to protect myself from going through a similar loss experience, the ultimate experience of loss isn't something we can control, and it wasn't any easier to lose Bram to wobbly hedgehog syndrome than it was to lose Hawthorne to cancer.

It's really emotionally hard having these shorter-lived pets because we love them even though we know the time is going to be short. Obviously there are reasonable things we can do to try to ensure our pets have good health- good diet, vet checkups, clean environment, etc. But we can't control for everything, and inevitably SOMETHING will come up at some point because no one and nothing lives forever. Just be kind to yourself right now and let yourself grieve. Remember that everyone who loves someone is going to experience grief, and much as we can try to forestall it or control it, it ultimately isn't within our control, even though it's very human to WANT to seek control.

 

[Gadzy]

Thankyou so much for that! I just noticed a poor element of English/spelling in my post! It should be passed NOT past