Do you think I accidently killed my guinea pigs with "hay" I was buying?

[SpiritedAway]

I had two gorgeous guinea pigs at the start of the year, 4.5 years old. In February, when I got home from work one looked to have had a stroke after not having previously shown any symptoms of being ill, just curled up on one side, and falling over and she died a few hours later before I could get her to the vet.

Their breeder had a guinea pig she was retiring from breeding so offered me her as a cagemate. My second girl started to have cracking sounds so I took her to the vet who found no issues, and there were no other symptoms. Then in April she developed a head tilt and she kept falling to one side. There had been no other symptoms of illness. I got her to the vet but they said given they were from the same litter, it was likely an issue with the breeding leading to neurological issues and we made the sad decision to euthanise.

This left with my brand-new piggy who was only 2.5 years old. Again, she was fine and then about 4 days ago I noticed her sneezing but no other issues issues. She then stopped eating or drinking the next day, I took her to the vets who gave her an injection but it didn't work, and then she started sucking in her body when she was breathing, so I admitted her to the animal hospital who said she was showing signs of heart failure, and she sadly died last night.

I have been wracking my brain about how I could have lost three seemingly healthy piggies in such a short space of time and I just can't stop looking up things that could have led to it. Then I was clearing out the guinea pig stuff and I noticed the hay. We had a new independent pet shop open up in the village last summer. The hay from the new pet shop was a bit courser but the shop assistant assured me it was timothy hay and fine for guinea pigs. Upon clearing out the hay the light reflected on the sticker in a way that I could see there was writing underneath the sticker, so I peeled it back and it was printing on the packaging (otherwise plain bag, no brand) and it said it was straw. Do you think this likely caused their deaths? I'm absolutely devastated and feel so stupid for not noticing the difference.

 

[Wiebke]

I had two gorgeous guinea pigs at the start of the year, 4.5 years old. In February, when I got home from work one looked to have had a stroke after not having previously shown any symptoms of being ill, just curled up on one side, and falling over and she died a few hours later before I could get her to the vet.

Their breeder had a guinea pig she was retiring from breeding so offered me her as a cagemate. My second girl started to have cracking sounds so I took her to the vet who found no issues, and there were no other symptoms. Then in April she developed a head tilt and she kept falling to one side. There had been no other symptoms of illness. I got her to the vet but they said given they were from the same litter, it was likely an issue with the breeding leading to neurological issues and we made the sad decision to euthanise.

This left with my brand-new piggy who was only 2.5 years old. Again, she was fine and then about 4 days ago I noticed her sneezing but no other issues issues. She then stopped eating or drinking the next day, I took her to the vets who gave her an injection but it didn't work, and then she started sucking in her body when she was breathing, so I admitted her to the animal hospital who said she was showing signs of heart failure, and she sadly died last night.

I have been wracking my brain about how I could have lost three seemingly healthy piggies in such a short space of time and I just can't stop looking up things that could have led to it. Then I was clearing out the guinea pig stuff and I noticed the hay. We had a new independent pet shop open up in the village last summer. The hay from the new pet shop was a bit courser but the shop assistant assured me it was timothy hay and fine for guinea pigs. Upon clearing out the hay the light reflected on the sticker in a way that I could see there was writing underneath the sticker, so I peeled it back and it was printing on the packaging (otherwise plain bag, no brand) and it said it was straw. Do you think this likely caused their deaths? I'm absolutely devastated and feel so stupid for not noticing the difference.

Hi

BIG HUGS

It is an integral part of the onset of the grieving process that any caring pet owner (or parent) is experiencing strong feelings of guilt, failure and soul-searching since we humans are wired to reflect everything back onto ourselves. This is what you are currently experiencing. It is of course a lot stronger if you lose several piggies in quick succession.
The desire to find answers where there are no easy ones or you will always be left guessing is accordingly much greater, too. The only thing that may give you an answer would be a post-mortem examination and if necessary a lab test of any affected tissues but that would be very expensive and any answers are not guaranteed.
It rather sounds to me more like some bug that has been passed on than anything coming with hay, to be honest.

You may also want to check your gas alarm/gas level on the very off chance that it could be that (environmental angle).

Do you also have rabbits or - more likely - did the breeder you got your piggies from have rabbits that could have passed on e.cuniculi? This is much rarer in the USA since there is not such a tradition of keeping rabbits and guinea pigs either together (no longer recommended) or in the same household compared to the UK. E.cuniculi can be passed on directly between rabbits (who are usually symptom-free) or indirectly (as we have seen by a case on here) by just food fragments from used rabbit dishes or bedding accidentally falling into a guinea pig dish/being transferred to a guinea pig feeding area but the germ will not survive for long in something like hay.

Another thing that is much more common in the USA compared to the UK is a respiratory infection that tracks into the ear and can cause neurological problems as well. Again, it is likely that whatever it is has come with your breeder piggies and is not anything you have caused or due to any neglect of yours.
You have done all the right things and there is no blame attached to you.

Neurological symptoms are hardly researched in guinea pigs and most vets - especially the vast majority that don't see them very regularly - won't be familiar with them; so please don't be too hard on the vet, either. The symptoms themselves are too vague to give you a clear pointer. You could also not have known after the first death that you were obviously rather dealing with an infectious issue.

You may find these links here helpful in order to help ease your mind somewhat as to your own perceived 'guilt' or shortcomings - I can personally not see anything that could be tracked back to you:
Neurological Issues (Seizures, Strokes, E.cuniculi etc.) - Symptoms and Care
CBS Syndrome (Calcified Bulla Syndrome/Walled-in Otitis Media - Symptoms and Care

Please try to be as kind with yourself as you can and to give yourself time to grieve and a lot more time to heal. It won't be a quick process. We are here for you to give you moral support for as long as you need. You may want to bookmark this thread so you can find it easily again whenever you feel like you may need some understanding support. This will allow both sides any lengthy explanations/questions but allow us to refresh our memories as well.
Here is the link to our grieving guide: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

PS: However, if you would like to give guinea pigs another go or get other pets, please deep clean anything in contact or nearby with F10 disinfectant and give it some time to allow any bugs to die off naturally, just to be on the safe side.

 

[SpiritedAway]

That you for that, that was the post and links I need right now.
We don't have rabbits and the breeder only bred guinea pigs, hamsters and rats although I did remember a couple of weeks ago we did go to a petting zoo where we went into a rabbit enclosure and fed the rabbits, but that is probably a stretch.
My heart really wants more guinea pigs but I'm done for now. I'm not sure I can go through all thar again just yet.

 

[CTWC]

Sending hugs I am so sorry for your loss

 

[Wiebke]

That you for that, that was the post and links I need right now.
We don't have rabbits and the breeder only bred guinea pigs, hamsters and rats although I did remember a couple of weeks ago we did go to a petting zoo where we went into a rabbit enclosure and fed the rabbits, but that is probably a stretch.
My heart really wants more guinea pigs but I'm done for now. I'm not sure I can go through all thar again just yet.

We can only speculate as to what it is that got your piggies, and I would expect that the breeder's rats were indoors so not at risk of some of the nastier bugs that could have been transmitted (seeing that you are US-based where rodents are generally kept indoors because of the much wider temperature swings and more extreme climate) but there are unfortunately some real nasties around - the hanta virus has just got into the headlines lately - thankfully that one is RARE and its symptoms do NOT correspond to what your piggies have shown.
You will likely never know for sure what exactly has got your piggies but I am pretty sure that it was not something you carried in but that they most likely have arrived with it.

This guide contains a list of the nasties that can be transmitted from wild rodents to guinea pigs if that helps to allay your concerns further:
Contagion - Inter-species Transmission and Pet Care During Owner Illness/Pregnancy (incl. Covid)

You will find that the advice in the link below also applies to a good deal for any other pet species if you feel up to other pets in due time. It takes an honest look at all the places and ways you can get pets and at the advantages, disadvantages and potential risks that come with each way.
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs


You are also welcome to continue to use this thread as you go through your grieving process for any questions, for our understanding of what you are experiencing and for moral support from our friendly community as you go along. Our forum is not part of social media; we therefore do not rely on generating as many threads for revenue and can leave them running for as long as needed, which allow us to offer continuing support during illness, loss and any unplanned pregnancies.
For this purpose, I would recommend to you to bookmark this link and any other links you may find useful for the future.

I cannot express just how sorry I feel that you have started what should have been a happy piggy journey with such a tragedy instead. Please be kind with yourself and give yourself and any family time to grieve and to heal. We are here for you during this process whenever a friendly ear and shoulder is welcome or needed. Our support doesn't just stop with the end of ownership but only when you feel at peace with what has happened to you.

We also have got a Rainbow Bridge section if at any time it feels right for you to leave a tribute to your piggies. You are quite obviously a very caring and loving person. I hope that you will find that this spring of love inside is going to flow for another pets or pets in the future.
Rainbow Bridge Pets

You will never forget what has happened but you can use it constructively eventually to give the love you never could to your piggies to another creature in need or make a gesture of support to a rescue in their name if you feel that this would help you in your process of coming to terms with it all.

 

[weepweeps]

That you for that, that was the post and links I need right now.
We don't have rabbits and the breeder only bred guinea pigs, hamsters and rats although I did remember a couple of weeks ago we did go to a petting zoo where we went into a rabbit enclosure and fed the rabbits, but that is probably a stretch.
My heart really wants more guinea pigs but I'm done for now. I'm not sure I can go through all thar again just yet.

I’m so sorry for your losses. Sending you hugs.

 

[Merab]

So very sorry for your losses.
How heartbreaking for you.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
Holding you in my heart

 

[SpiritedAway]

Thank you all so much

I think what made it even harder was that I genuinely didn't expect her to die. When I took her in the first time, I knew she was off but I genuinely thought she'd get a jab, probably some meds and a hefty vets bill but I thought I'd noticed early enough for her to recover. Even when I dropped her off at the animal hospital, I knew it was serious but I didn't quite realise how far gone she was because of how rapidly it all declined

 

[CTWC]

The experts on here often say though that one they are programmed to hide illness as they are prey animals and also their fast metabolism can sometimes work against them

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you all so much

I think what made it even harder was that I genuinely didn't expect her to die. When I took her in the first time, I knew she was off but I genuinely thought she'd get a jab, probably some meds and a hefty vets bill but I thought I'd noticed early enough for her to recover. Even when I dropped her off at the animal hospital, I knew it was serious but I didn't quite realise how far gone she was because of how rapidly it all declined

HUGS

The speed at which piggies can die can be truly terrifying and it can leave you on occasion shaking like a leaf, as I know from my own experiences - especially if this is your first encounter. Please do not beat yourself up over what you didn't know and couldn't have anticipated because you haven't got the necessary experience - some of them can come at a rather high cost.

Pet ownership - like parenthood - is very much learning on the job. You usually learn more from your own mistakes than by doing it right all the time. What really counts is how you get back up and what you take from it. You cannot change the past but you can always pay forward to change the future. Piggies have such a big personality and presence that we tend to forget just how small animals they are; and how fast their metabolism is. They live, get ill and they sadly also die in fast forward.

But please do not blame yourself. Symptoms can be ever so vague because piggies can suppress so much and illness can progress so very quickly that any medication can only run two paces behind at all stages.
Once the body is starting to close down, there is nothing anybody can do to reverse that process. It is truly a one-way street.

Give yourself time to digest it all and to grieve. It is OK to not be OK for a little while but please seek support if you are unable to move on or to function in your daily life. You have so much to deal with right now but you do not have to tackle it all on your own. It is not an experience you can walk away from easily or quickly, as I know myself from losing several piggies of mine in a matter of just days a few time (even though my deaths were thankfully always unrelated). It is also very normal that you start questioning yourself - even I do it in that kind of scenario.
You can find links in chapter 4 in our Grieving Guide if it all gets a bit much on here or you can come here for some untrained community support from people who understand what you are going through from their own experience.