Dominance behaviour

[Rumblestiltskin]

Good evening all

I realise Ive posted rather a lot but as a first time gp owner there seems like a lot to navigate.

My newly adopted pigs had mites so we've had/have some health hiccups as the sow has been scratching her eye and injured it so its back to the vets tomorrow.

But I think the relationship between my dominant neutered boar and the sow is causing me the most anxiety and affecting my ability to enjoy them more.

I have read the information on here and also searched but feel my two are inbetween mild and moderate dominance. He will nip her if she doesnt back down and definitely attempts to guard resources (I have 2 of everything).

Hes now decided their carrier is 'his' and has refused her entry a couple of times this week. This evening I used the carrier to put them on the floor and kept the door open because they seem to like including that in their exploration. She went in it but as she exited he arrived and whilst he let her out he squirted urine.

I do hear very loud escalating protest wheeks from her about once a day too. Although I have noticed when it comes to food she wont always back down.

Is this all normal? They can also get along fine and nibble grass together happily.

Regarding the carrier what should I do? They need to go back to the vet tomorrow.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Nipping is a gesture of power - lets the submissive feel the teeth but does not break the skin. It is a mild way of telling the other they are in charge.

Scatter food around the entire cage - don’t use any food bowls at all. Foraging is mental stimulation so is good for them on that front but also it is not possible for the dominant to guard all resources if it isn’t in a defined space.
Have three hay areas.

Are you sure they are protest wheeks?
Squealing can be submission

I would not use the carrier for anything other than transporting them - remove it as soon as they are out for floor time; use other hides for floor time.
He obviously cannot view it as his territory without causing you major transporting issues; but also because it is a one entrance house and anything with only one door should not be used.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

Thank you Piggies&Buns.

So this is probably normal dominance behaviour?

I worry shes ok.

I have 4 hay areas - one under each hidey and 2 more spaced apart at either end of the cage.

I think I meant submission maybe chose the wrong word - they are wheeks that escalate in volume.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you Piggies&Buns.

So this is probably normal dominance behaviour?

I worry shes ok.

I have 4 hay areas - one under each hidey and 2 more spaced apart at either end of the cage.

I think I meant submission maybe chose the wrong word - they are wheeks that escalate in volume.

I support @Piggies&buns ' proposals. Additionally to sprinkle feeding and making sure that you only have housing with two exits in order to minimise the usual dominance over first choice of sleeping area and food etc. I would also recommend to water in two different areas that cannot physically be covered at once.

How long have they been together? Two weeks' settling together dominance period as a normal hierarchical and territorial group establishment is about average but it can last longer. It is likely that your boy is still insecure in his new role as leader and is therefore throwing his weight around more strongly.
Please observe the hierarchy with your boy always coming first; including picking up, grooming and returning to the cage.
The behaviour is perfectly within normal bounds for this stage. There is no aggression; nipping is a very mild behaviour.

Please don't panic and be patient. It is going to settle down and your couple will have all the time to develop a friendly and hopefully loving bond. I've had a few of my own starting out with a somewhat insecure leader who gradually found their feet and could then relax more into their new position and responsibilities as a leader.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

I support @Piggies&buns ' proposals. Additionally to sprinkle feeding and making sure that you only have housing with two exits in order to minimise the usual dominance over first choice of sleeping area and food etc. I would also recommend to water in two different areas that cannot physically be covered at once.

How long have they been together? Two weeks' settling together dominance period as a normal hierarchical and territorial group establishment is about average but it can last longer. It is likely that your boy is still insecure in his new role as leader and is therefore throwing his weight around more strongly.
Please observe the hierarchy with your boy always coming first; including picking up, grooming and returning to the cage.
The behaviour is perfectly within normal bounds for this stage. There is no aggression; nipping is a very mild behaviour.

Please don't panic and be patient. It is going to settle down and your couple will have all the time to develop a friendly and hopefully loving bond. I've had a few of my own starting out with a somewhat insecure leader who gradually found their feet and could then relax more into their new position and responsibilities as a leader.

Thank you for your response. I have the two hidies each with 2 exits, plus an additional 2 hay areas and 2 water bottles at either end of the cage.

I adopted them in early March but i think they had been bonded for at the most 6 months, maybe less before being returned to rescue. Before that hed come into rescue alone (I dont know his history) and failed a bonding with another single male, so was neutered.

Nobody told me about guinea pig social hierarchies and with no experience I have no way of knowing where mine sit on the scale. They seem like squabbling sibblings to me. They dont particularly show any signs of affection towards each other that I have observed. I guess he doesnt full on bully her shes allowed largely to eat and move around but he'll tell her or nip her if shes pushing her luck (she wont always immediately give in to him). The guarding of the carrier was a bit of a surprise though he started blocking the entrance and not letting her in..

 

[Piggies&buns]

The behaviours sound to be very normal.
They will not show signs of affection to each other as they isn’t something piggies do - they don’t tend to cuddle up etc

Nipping is normal and the fact he is doing it suggests he is dominant so always handle him first

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your response. I have the two hidies each with 2 exits, plus an additional 2 hay areas and 2 water bottles at either end of the cage.

I adopted them in early March but i think they had been bonded for at the most 6 months, maybe less before being returned to rescue. Before that hed come into rescue alone (I dont know his history) and failed a bonding with another single male, so was neutered.

Nobody told me about guinea pig social hierarchies and with no experience I have no way of knowing where mine sit on the scale. They seem like squabbling sibblings to me. They dont particularly show any signs of affection towards each other that I have observed. I guess he doesnt full on bully her shes allowed largely to eat and move around but he'll tell her or nip her if shes pushing her luck (she wont always immediately give in to him). The guarding of the carrier was a bit of a surprise though he started blocking the entrance and not letting her in..

My dumped Cornish family (mum with son and daughter, and both sows pregnant from the son when rescued) is a bit like that - more soap opera than happy ever after. They do have their regular family squabbles and spats. Nevertheless, they are very closely and firmly bonded. And very happy to tell their resulting three sons and one daughter (who are also living with me and who now halfway through life themselves) to please not darken the doormat when they come to say hello through the grids at cleaning time.


The longer I have piggies and the more of them I have going through my life, the more they seem like normal people to me. You get the instant love stories and you definitely get the bickering sisters and argumentative families or boars. You get the natural leaders you rule a whole group without seeming to just by sheer dint of personality, you get the master diplomats but you also get the somewhat insecure leaders who are feeling insecure in themselves and who feel the need to insist on showing who is in charge from time to time.

Please don't feel bad about not knowing more about the social life of guinea pigs and behaviours. It's an area that is still very much under construction. To my knowledge, I am the first to talk about prey animal instincts and guinea pig whispering, write about the different stages of the instinctive species bonding process with their attendant behaviours as well as deciphering territorial behaviours by watching how my piggies interact in next door cages, after arrival, during bonding or group changes or after bust-ups. I have never seen it mention before but once you know what to look for, it is actually obvious.

If you want to learn more about behaviours and social wiring, then you may find these links here interesting and thought-provoking:
Guinea Pig Facts - An Overview

A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours
Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context

Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips
Who is the Boss - Your Guinea Pig or You?

Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs

The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society

We have the most extensive information resource on a wide range of topics. Here is the access link, which you may want to bookmark: Comprehensive Owners' Practical and Supportive Information Collection

I can however assure you that your piggies are very much in the normal range.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

The behaviours sound to be very normal.
They will not show signs of affection to each other as they isn’t something piggies do - they don’t tend to cuddle up etc

Nipping is normal and the fact he is doing it suggests he is dominant so always handle him first

Thank you. I already picked up on handle treat etc the dominant pig first from this excellent forum. Much needed advice!

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

My dumped Cornish family (mum with son and daughter, and both sows pregnant from the son when rescued) is a bit like that - more soap opera than happy ever after. They do have their regular family squabbles and spats. Nevertheless, they are very closely and firmly bonded. And very happy to tell their resulting three sons and one daughter (who are also living with me and who now halfway through life themselves) to please not darken the doormat when they come to say hello through the grids at cleaning time.


The longer I have piggies and the more of them I have going through my life, the more they seem like normal people to me. You get the instant love stories and you definitely get the bickering sisters and argumentative families or boars. You get the natural leaders you rule a whole group without seeming to just by sheer dint of personality, you get the master diplomats but you also get the somewhat insecure leaders who are feeling insecure in themselves and who feel the need to insist on showing who is in charge from time to time.

Please don't feel bad about not knowing more about the social life of guinea pigs and behaviours. It's an area that is still very much under construction. To my knowledge, I am the first to talk about prey animal instincts and guinea pig whispering, write about the different stages of the instinctive species bonding process with their attendant behaviours as well as deciphering territorial behaviours by watching how my piggies interact in next door cages, after arrival, during bonding or group changes or after bust-ups. I have never seen it mention before but once you know what to look for, it is actually obvious.

If you want to learn more about behaviours and social wiring, then you may find these links here interesting and thought-provoking:
Guinea Pig Facts - An Overview

A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours
Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context

Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips
Who is the Boss - Your Guinea Pig or You?

Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs

The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society

We have the most extensive information resource on a wide range of topics. Here is the access link, which you may want to bookmark: Comprehensive Owners' Practical and Supportive Information Collection

I can however assure you that your piggies are very much in the normal range.

Thank you for your kind and re-assuring response.

The comment about one family playing out a soap opera made me laugh - thats these two. From what you say it sounds like he may be an insecure leader - I dont know if he was a originally a lone guinea pig. He's got a big character and thinks he rules the world....I just want them both to be living happy lives.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your kind and re-assuring response.

The comment about one family playing out a soap opera made me laugh - thats these two. From what you say it sounds like he may be an insecure leader - I dont know if he was a originally a lone guinea pig. He's got a big character and thinks he rules the world....I just want them both to be living happy lives.

They do - they get to do all the normal interaction and have complex people lives in a place where they can feel safe to live them. Your boy is going to settle down eventually. How old is he roughly?

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

They do - they get to do all the normal interaction and have complex people lives in a place where they can feel safe to live them. Your boy is going to settle down eventually. How old is he roughly?

I was told he was about 2 and shes about 3. He still does zoomies/popcorns. Shes much more sedate.

 

[Wiebke]

I was told he was about 2 and shes about 3. He still does zoomies/popcorns. Shes much more sedate.

That is normal. Boars tend to be a lot more care-free while sows are wired to be busy with organising the social coherence and survival of the group as well as bringing up the babies, so they are taking life more serious; if they don't have those duties, then taking life easy is the next aim. But wasting carefully hoarded calories is not on a sow's bucket list of life goals.
This is, as always just a general trend with masses of individual exceptions.

Boars may help with the pups (and some neutered 'husboars' of mine have made wonderful nursery nurses) and may take young boys under their wings as group-less bachelors but while they are part of the group hierarchy, they are not part of the sow hierarchy in a larger group.

Yours are both coming into or are in the prime of their lives right now. But you have definitely got a very, ver happy boy living the dream...

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

That is normal. Boars tend to be a lot more care-free while sows are wired to be busy with organising the social coherence and survival of the group as well as bringing up the babies, so they are taking life more serious; if they don't have those duties, then taking life easy is the next aim. But wasting carefully hoarded calories is not on a sow's bucket list of life goals.
This is, as always just a general trend with masses of individual exceptions.

Boars may help with the pups (and some neutered 'husboars' of mine have made wonderful nursery nurses) and may take young boys under their wings as group-less bachelors but while they are part of the group hierarchy, they are not part of the sow hierarchy in a larger group.

Yours are both coming into or are in the prime of their lives right now. But you have definitely got a very, ver happy boy living the dream...

Thank you so much, all so informative and interesting to know. My boy is most entertaining and confident. He puts his little feet on the cage bars to interact - that is ask for food - and will allow some cheek and nose strokes on his terms. He also makes all the wheeks when he hears me coming at feeding time. I’m not sure she makes any! I think learning to understand what looks like happy in her will more challenging and from what you say much more subtle.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

That is normal. Boars tend to be a lot more care-free while sows are wired to be busy with organising the social coherence and survival of the group as well as bringing up the babies, so they are taking life more serious; if they don't have those duties, then taking life easy is the next aim. But wasting carefully hoarded calories is not on a sow's bucket list of life goals.
This is, as always just a general trend with masses of individual exceptions.

Boars may help with the pups (and some neutered 'husboars' of mine have made wonderful nursery nurses) and may take young boys under their wings as group-less bachelors but while they are part of the group hierarchy, they are not part of the sow hierarchy in a larger group.

Yours are both coming into or are in the prime of their lives right now. But you have definitely got a very, ver happy boy living the dream...

Good morning @Wiebke. I'm not sure if i can continue an old thread and if you will see this.

Duncan and Daphne started a loud and on going domestic dispute last night. It started in the evening but at about 4.30am I was woken up by rumbling nd squealing that for over an hour. I did get up and sat and watched for a while. Duncan was chasing and/or mounting/nipping Daphne. She was crying wolf loudly and squealing (I can hear her doing it again right now). I tried adding some more hay piles to no avail.

I checked her this morning for bites I cant see anything but that isnt to say there isnt anything. She ate her breakfast.

I'm not quite sure what to do. Or do I do nothing, monitor and hope it settles?

Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Good morning @Wiebke. I'm not sure if i can continue an old thread and if you will see this.

Duncan and Daphne started a loud and on going domestic dispute last night. It started in the evening but at about 4.30am I was woken up by rumbling nd squealing that for over an hour. I did get up and sat and watched for a while. Duncan was chasing and/or mounting/nipping Daphne. She was crying wolf loudly and squealing (I can hear her doing it again right now). I tried adding some more hay piles to no avail.

I checked her this morning for bites I cant see anything but that isnt to say there isnt anything. She ate her breakfast.

I'm not quite sure what to do. Or do I do nothing, monitor and hope it settles?

Thank you

Please take a deep breath - what you are experiencing is a strong season. Oodles of drama for about a day but nopig gets hurt and they will reassure each other of their bond afterwards.
Sows can experience the odd strong season when they have a hormone spike. It can be quite shocking the first time you witness it.
By the sound of it, you are around her fertile slot at the end of it now so things should be calming down within a few hours. Sow wheeking can be dramatic but it is a bit different to that when they are actually having a domestic altercation. It takes experience to learn to appreciate the differences and to get your ear in.
The 'Biting' is just holding without breaking the skin.

- Sows: Behaviour and Female Health Problems (including mounting and ovarian cysts)
- Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context (see chapter Sexual and Hormonal Behaviours)

All the best and have a drink for your own lacerated feelings once this Peak episode of Pigenders is over!

PS: As long as you tag me and I am well enough healthwise, I will answer but you are welcome to open a new thread as you encounter a different problem. Strong seasons are about as dramatic as it gets in a mixed gender but they actually serve to rather cement the bond through the shared experience of an excess of pheromones and hormones so it is not all bad at all. Your two are totally committed.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

Thank you @Wiebke I’m very grateful for such a prompt response and I feel greatly relieved at your explanation. I was starting to panic a little that I potentially had a bigger problem (than the mites and ringworm both now largely behind us For now at least).

I’ve noticed she does seek him out more sometimes (unwisely ) and supposed she was in season but this one is something else! Your explanation makes perfect sense to what I witnessed last night.

Such drama!

The wine is on chill for this evening and I’ll be hoping for a less disturbed nights sleep. Potatoes willing

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you @Wiebke I’m very grateful for such a prompt response and I feel greatly relieved at your explanation. I was starting to panic a little that I potentially had a bigger problem (than the mites and ringworm both now largely behind us For now at least).

I’ve noticed she does seek him out more sometimes (unwisely ) and supposed she was in season but this one is something else! Your explanation makes perfect sense to what I witnessed last night.

Such drama!

The wine is on chill for this evening and I’ll be hoping for a less disturbed nights sleep. Potatoes willing

The potatoes will be snoring themselves after all that excitement. But they are firmly and safely bonded for good. They may have their spats but they won't fall out with each other.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

The potatoes will be snoring themselves after all that excitement. But they are firmly and safely bonded for good. They may have their spats but they won't fall out with each other.

It has quitened down this afternoon!

 

[Wiebke]

It has quitened down this afternoon!

Just as I said - it was simply their first big season. You won't see them all the time but many mixed gender pairs, especially younger ones, have a big one at some point.

Now you can all relax and chill and stop worrying... They are safely riveted.

 

[Merab]

Please don’t stop asking questions.
It shows that you are a great owner and your piggies have landed on their paws with you.

We learn from asking questions and also from other people’s questions.

 

[Rumblestiltskin]

Please don’t stop asking questions.
It shows that you are a great owner and your piggies have landed on their paws with you.

We learn from asking questions and also from other people’s questions.

Thank you Merab.

I didn’t realise they were such complex little critters.

I guess if you house yours outside or sleep a long way from them it would be easy to miss such drama!

I’m grateful for this forum as you are such experienced piggy owners you’ve likely seen it all!