Dominance play or is separation needed?

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Avora

Avora

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Hello, I'm new here today (I hope I'm posting this in the right place!) So I've had my boys Barney and Ruben for a week now and they were getting along fine for the first few days with just a little rumbling and occasional mounting- I assumed this was just trying to decide who is dominant so I left it. Other than that they were always together following each other and popcorning and seemed pretty happy. But when it got to Sunday morning I heard their teeth chattering and then noticed Ruben had a chunk of Barney's fur in his mouth. I separated them and they have been separate but close since then because every time I put them together they chatter their teeth and chase each other. I don't want either of them to get hurt.

Basically I'm wondering if it's safe to put them back together in the large C&C cage I'm making or if keeping them separate is the only option?
 
Without seeing the boys' general body/vocal language it's very hard to whether they need to be separated yet. Are they a bonded pair or were they picked out from a group of males, how old are they, where did you get them from?

As you have had them such a short time please read this thread, if they are in an cage with an open/wire top please cover some of it with a towel/blanket so that they feel more secure.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?36239-FAQ-How-do-I-settle-shy-new-guinea-pigs

This thread gives the good, bad and ugly of boar behaviour.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?28949-Boars!-Simple-Dominance-Displays-or-Fighting

HTH

Suzy x
 
Thank you for responding! The thing is where I got them from (a specialist pet store where the woman in charge breeds the guinea pigs) said they weren't from the same litter but had been grouped/bonded so they would be ok with each other; but most of them weren't. We took for granted that because these two were under the same igloo that they would get along fine but now whenever they are together they are on opposite sides of the cage chattering, circling and baring their teeth at each other. But when I do separate them they wheek for each other (I'm pretty sure it's for each other because they go to where the edge of the cage where the other is and seem to be sniffing around for the other)

I'm just a little confused by their behaviour.

I was also told they were about 12 weeks old but they are quite a bit bigger than my sister's guinea pigs which are the same age as that now.

And about the cage, they have a fully covered section to hide under and an igloo and I put in two of everything so there wouldn't be fighting (which has now been split into two cages). I haven't finished the C&C cage yet. I was sort of hoping they could be housed next to each other in the cage but having them near each other like that, they bite at the bars and get very irate. Should I try them in a larger cage together again? Because the behaviour is at the warning/getting serious with hints of serious fighting I wonder if they will ever get along or if it's just the stroppy age that will quell when they have enough space and time to work it out?

Sorry for rambling so much!
 
Just to update...

I put them together in a large 60" by 45" cage, lots of hides, clean bedding two of everything. I sat and watched them and they were fine for about 45 minutes but then there was bloodshed. Poor little Barney had been bitten on the back of the ear with more fur having been pulled out.... so I've split the cage in two. I'm pretty sure they wont get along any time soon. Am I right thinking that? :/
 
Well it certainly sounds as though you have a non-bonded pair of boys that really don't like each other. As for their age, how much do they weigh in grammes (it can give an estimated age)?

Having them live next door to each other over time may help with re-introducing them. This link may help if you've not already found it.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/...FAQ-Introducing-and-reintroducing-guinea-pigs

If they will not live together and you would like to find each a cagemate that they do like please think rescue next time. Taking your pigs boar dating at a rescue will mean that they can choose who they live with and are match on personality, character and chemistry. Some rescues run residential dating so the dates run over a number of days, other rescue do 'speed dating' where the bonding process is continued at home after an initial meet at the rescue. This thread covers dozens of dates so will give you an idea of the process, it may also help with re-bonding your boys.

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?59233-Boar-Dating-Service-Wales

HTH

Suzy x
 
Thank you very much for your help! They seem to have calmed down being next to each other so I'll leave them like this for a bit, maybe re-introduce them after a few days.

Thanks again!
 
I personally wouldn't try them again if blood has been shed. I would let them live next to each other as you are. Perhaps when they are a little older and not so hormonal you could try again but I would def leave it for now you have done the right thing xx
 
I thought that would be the case really. It also turned out that Barney had mites and was a good few months older than I was told he was.... I should have known really but I just fell in love with him when I first saw him. It's all turned out very complicated for having only had them 10 days....

Thank you for the advice! :)
 
Similar happened to me, I took on my Billy at 9 months & he was riddled with mites! Not a great start, but soon sorted with xeno drops from the vet & all has been fine since. Mites can also make them anxy apparently you may find him a bit more settled when they are sorted.... Xx
 
Sorry your two piggies haven't bonded. I've noticed quite often in P@H that you'll see a few piggies that haven't been bought and the next day they are lumped with more new piggies - they may have been sold as a "pair" but realistically (like humans) you don't get on with everyone, especially if the two piggies are both dominant.

Our two original piggies had a hierarchy - Banana was always the dominant one and Gilles submissive. Gilles is starting to exert a bit of control over Banana now so we are hyper aware we may have to separate them, although they never lunge at each other or teeth chatter, just normal mounting. The other two piggies are pretty much the same, Scruffy is dominant and Snoopy more submissive.

You've definitely done the right thing in separating them. Like others have said placing their cages together is a good way of getting them used to each other but sometimes piggies just don't get on with each other - it's no one's fault. There has been lots of good advice about taking your piggies "dating" and I think that is a very good option to consider if you have the resources as piggies like to live in pairs. Just make sure you are in a financial position to be able to take on two more piggies.

xox
 
Yeah I don't think I will be able to have space for more boy piggles. Also, Ruben was still trying to get to Barney by chewing bars and ramming himself into the side of the cage :/ they were also very loud wheeking at each other, rumbling and teeth chattering. I'm still not sure what I can do to help them... I might have to take Ruben back and then get Barney a better companion when he's recovered from his mites.... The first piggies I had when I was like 8 had mites when we got them too so I noticed it pretty quick at least.

Again thank you for your help and reassuring me :)
 
I'm not sure what to suggest regarding them being aggressive with the cages next to each other - I would maybe part the cages further, but someone who is better experienced may be able to advise better.

Mites will clear in time and like you said, make sure they are fully gone before you try and boar date him.

xox
 
Unfortunately my two boys had to be re-homed. Mainly due to housing arrangements for them. They really didn't get along at all and we don't have the space to give them separate rooms. When Ruben bit me (although I'm pretty sure it was just out of curiosity) we decided we should maybe re-home him and then boar date Barney when he was free of mites but there aren't many places around where I live that you can set up boar dating so Barney has been re-homed as well. I'm very sad that it came to this but hopefully they will be happy where they have been taken in. I now have two younger females that seem to be doing well and getting along nicely.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

x
 
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