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Dory's bladder stone is almost pea size!

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PiggiePal

PiggiePal

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Hi All,

I've not regularly posted on the forum for ages due to having far too many other things going on but I wanted to update you all on Dory's latest problems. He's around 6/7 years old, I adopted him a year and a half ago from Windwhistle Warren.

Some of you may remember that he had an op last year because of an abcess he had on his side. See below *warning yukky pics*
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55422&highlight=dory
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55572&highlight=dory
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56017&highlight=dory

Well he got over that trauma very well and has been settling into my new house nicely by basically having the run of the house ;)

Last week I noticed he was hunching and squeaking when he was weeing/pooing so I put him on antibiotics/painkillers to see if it was just cystitis however it didn't help him so I took him to the vets on Monday (Vale vets in Dursley) and she found blood in his urine so then did an ultrasound and found a massive stone in his bladder!

He had the op yesterday (was v nervous) but has come round well and is eating and pooing nicely, if a bit quiet which is to be expected. The vet has given me baytril and metacam and i'm taking him back to see her in a week. Obviously i'm supplementing with probiotics too.

Anyway i thought i'd share some pics of the poor boy's bladder stone, as I can't believe how big it is! Any advice as to how I should be feeding him / looking after him to prevent more stones forming is welcome :))

pea on the left, stone on the right
P1150509.jpg

poor boy's war wound
P1150513.jpg

Bare tum!
P1150512.jpg

Getting weighed
P1150519.jpg

Oh come on mum let me out of here!
P1150520.jpg

Piggy lips
P1150523.jpg

Alyson x
 
Oh poor boy! He really has been through it :( i'm sending him all my well wishes, he is a strong little boy isn't he!

Sure someone will come along re diet advice, what do you feed him at the moment? I think it would be wise to avoid foods high in calcium like Kale and Spinach, there are also lots of threads regarding filtering water and the +/- of doing so.

Give him a little chin rub from me!
 
wow how orange is that? my late peppers was just beige coloured! Wonder if the colour can tell you anything? hmmmm interesting

Lovely pics of the boy and scar etc lol
 
oooh that's interesting - I just assumed it was blood but perhaps it's something to do with carrots?/
 
Wow - how big are their little bladders anyway? It must have taken up so much space!

Really glad he's eating and pooing. I'd have thought the anaesthetic would take a few days to properly wear off.

He must be so much more comfortable now. Well done for getting it sorted so quickly.

Lots of love to you both. Keep us updated xxxxxx
 
Aw, give the brave little fella lots of gentle cuddles from us here xoxo
Harley's stone was almost pea size last summer, our vet said she had never seen one so big and we keep the offending thing in the little phial she gave to us rolleyes
Try Dory on some Cystease capsules for cats, 125mg, quarter - half daily and unsweetened Cranberry juice if you haven't already, our vet welcomed this when we spoke to her about it - Harley has had no issues since -c but we almost lost him at one point when he spiralled downhill faster than we could ever have imagined 8...
Scary stuff and I watch all of our piggies now for any hunching or symptoms like a possessed woman mallethead :(|)
 
It looks very much like the first stone my Minx had! Same rough texture - poor bladder walls!
IMG_1796_edited-2.jpg


Wishing Dory a good recovery and hopefully no return!
 
The vet gave me baytril to give to Dory but I thought septrin was a better antibiotic?:{
 
Awww, poor boy..hope he's fully on the mend now. x
 
PiggiePal said:
The vet gave me baytril to give to Dory but I thought septrin was a better antibiotic?:{
Click to expand...

Baytril is the only licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs, so you may have to ask specifically for septrin and sign a form. It very much depends on your vet.

If you want to use a probiotic with the baytril, go for avipro plus - it is the only one that has no added calcium, which is a consideration for bladder problem piggies! Also think about the calcium content of the water.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?ma...t&search_in_description=1&keyword=avipro+plus

To protect the bladder, you may think about getting some cystease. This is a bladder coating food supplement (not a medication) for cats. I have seen it prescribed for post op bladder stone piggies by some vets. I have used it with good success for about 20 months now with Nerys, who suffers from chronic cystitis. You can order it from here. According to the vet who prescribed it to me, you give 1 capsule once daily for one week, then half the dose. I find it most convenient to dissolve a capsule in 1 ml of water in the first week and 2 ml of water from then on in (serves for two days). Keep in the fridge and shake before use! http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-suppleme...0-feline-cystitis-glucosamine-capsules-p-1146
 
Wiebke said:
Baytril is the only licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs, so you may have to ask specifically for septrin and sign a form. It very much depends on your vet.
Click to expand...

Thankyou, the annoying thing is that she's given me septrin before but I saw the vet nurse when I picked him up and she didn't seem to know what was going on and I didn't insist enough about septrin so it's my fault.

thanks for the tip on the probiotic, i've been giving him bio-lapis but will find avipro.

will get some cystease too Thanks xx
 
OMG! Have just read through your post, its good to see Dory looking so well, long may it continue. x>>
 
ok, I'm intrigued now, i have just been to have another look at Peppers stone (only bit of him i have left) and its defo beige and smooth on the surface, how bizarre that yours and Wiebkes are both carroty with rough surface.

Interesting dont you think?
 
Yes this is very interesting. Could it be that they are different types of stone? Calcium and something else I wonder?x
 
here we go, sorry they arent brill but it is about 3 years old now lol, and i darent take it out as it may stink!

stone1.jpg


stone2.jpg


stone3.jpg


stone4.jpg
 
doglovinpiggylover said:
ok, I'm intrigued now, i have just been to have another look at Peppers stone (only bit of him i have left) and its defo beige and smooth on the surface, how bizarre that yours and Wiebkes are both carroty with rough surface.

Interesting dont you think?
Click to expand...

The red colour is from blood - The stone will turn rusty soon. The roughness is because stones like that are in fact an agglomerate of crystals that have stuck together. Because of the scratchy surface, the damage to the bladder walls is potentially much bigger than with a smooth stone, especially when it is pressed against then during urination, which is the reason why I have recommended the cystease. I wish I had known this when Minx was alive - but you can never go back...
 
PS: Have you had a look at this link here?
http://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html

I am sorry to have to warn you that bladder stones can return, sometimes within weeks of removing the first one. There seems to be a strong genetic link, so preventing one is not always possible.
 
Wiebke said:
PS: Have you had a look at this link here?
http://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html

I am sorry to have to warn you that bladder stones can return, sometimes within weeks of removing the first one. There seems to be a strong genetic link, so preventing one is not always possible.
Click to expand...

Wiebke, Peppers stone is 3 years old so wont turn orange now, i dont understand why his was so different, and i think he developed another one almost straight away as he was in agony for the last 3 months of his life.

I am so intrigued by this.
 
Yes I'm very aware that another one is likely to form asap which is scaring me somewhat. My friend Sarah had the same problems with her pig Charlie who had to be pts in the end as he just gave up after the third op :-( thank you for the links and recommendations. Hope the Cystease gets here soon Xx
 
Phew - glad he's recovered OK ....better out than in!

I too am intrigued about stones and crystals in piggies and at the moment there is no definitive info on the subject. A lot of it is anecdotal however here is some of what I have gleaned to date:

The majority of piggie Bladder stones consist of calcium salts and tend to be one of 3 types:

a) Calcium oxalate - high oxalic acid foods such as spinach, lettuce are believed to contribute to formation and most common in cats and dogs. Vets therefore tend to assume that piggie stones are therefore oxalate and forbid lettuce etc - but this is incorrect as most piggie stones are in fact
b) calcium carbonate - this is by far the most common based upon an American survey of guinea pig bladder stones and I belive they are smooth in appearance-
c) Calcium struvite - again more common in cats and dogs - but I have had a piggie with struvite stones - can often be triggered by a urease-positive bacterial infection (which may have been symptomless)

It's a good idea to get stones analysed (but obviously it costs) as this will give you an indication as to whether dietery changes in terms of calcium phosphorous ratio or cutting down oxalic acid rich foods is necessary to reduce the risk of another one forming.

Unfortunately we are still learning about piggie stones and the more info we can gather in one place on the different types of stones and relate it to diet, water hardness genetic predisposition etc etc the more we can start to see trends that will help inform future treatment/prevention for piggies.

Here's a very interesting article on types/shapes of crystals found in urine - bear in mind that piggies urine is normally quite alkaline so not all the examples will be relevant

http://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/clinpath/modules/ua-rout/crystsed.htm

and from looking at it the "spikey thornapples" appearance is associated with ammonium biurate crystals....first time I've come across this one!

An interesting discussion....
x
 
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I just wanted to say that I had the stone in my picture analysed and it came back as calcium carbonate, even though it was anything but smooth!
 
Wiebke said:
I just wanted to say that I had the stone in my picture analysed and it came back as calcium carbonate, even though it was anything but smooth!
Click to expand...

That's really useful info Wiebke - thank you - I'll add it to the database. It's precisely these types of examples, backed up by analaysis, that we need as it means we can provide evidence to challenge the "old school thinking" and get a better deal for our piggies.

x
 
The little girl I lost before Christmas (Molly) had a stone very similar to the orange one. Sadly she developed another one, much bigger within two weeks and had to be PTS. (long story)

But its not all bad news, I have another girl who had three stones which had to be removed, they were analysed but I cannot remember what they were sadly! I will try to find out. They were barbed, cream coloured and lodged inside her urethra blocking her bladder but also making them difficult to remove. After the op, she developed another smaller one which was removed from the outside in (cannot remember the name of the op but far less invasive) going through the urethra from the outside.

Since then (nearly four years ago) I have given her 15ml of filtered water every morning and evening without fail...never missed a day. Every other day she has cystease and every day she has uriflow. So far...and I still have everything crossed tightly, she has been clear, and i have had her xrayed several times to confirm this. I believe its because her bladder is effectively flushed each day twice a day. I know someone else who did this also and also had great success.

Sorry I cannot remember anything today.....I must be going old and senile!
 
Pebble said:
That's really useful info Wiebke - thank you - I'll add it to the database. It's precisely these types of examples, backed up by analaysis, that we need as it means we can provide evidence to challenge the "old school thinking" and get a better deal for our piggies.

x
Click to expand...

Feel free to use the picture if you wish, too - then at least something good may eventually come from all that pain!
 
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