Dysfunctional Bond?

Wyndy

Wyndy

Junior Guinea Pig
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So Pogo & Percy are 12-13 months old. As said in my thread in the Health & Illness section, Pogo has lost quite a bit of weight over the last couple of weeks therefore I stepped in with syringe feeding and vet visits. The vets have thus far found no sign of illness, but the exotic vet I went to suggested their bond might be the issue; a suggestion made based on their observations of them.

I have been uncertain about their bond for some time. Pogo is the dominant pig, Percy is the underpig.

They have very different personalities. Pogo is sweet, shy and reserved. Percy is sweet in his own way, but he is mega confident and mega in your face. Ever since Percy's testicles have descended, I have got the impression that he doesn't want to be the underpig. I have never seen Pogo behave in a consistently dominant way, and I have never seen submissive behaviours from Percy.

Pogo has rumble strutted, but only in response to Percy initiating it; Pogo is the one who always backs down and runs. I have seen submissive behaviour from Pogo; loud squealing when Percy is displaying dominant behaviours like chasing, bum nipping and mounting I've also found Pogo with boar glue all over his fur on one occasion.

They have never, and I mean never, liked sharing the same space. They never cuddle up whilst in their cage or in their pen. They are always on opposite sides and they don't interact. The only interaction they seem to have is when Percy is trying to dominate.

This behaviour isn't just occasional which has made me wonder whether it was the bond, not hormones, that was the issue.

Percy's dominating behaviours have been worse over the last 2-3 weeks. Every time he catches sight of Pogo leaving his hidey, he chases him, nips him and tries to mount him. And it does seem like Pogo is doing his best not to be noticed by Percy.

Do I try separating them by placing a divider in their 120cm cage? If so, will it be enough space for Pogo to feel safe (if the bond is an issue) and therefore improve psychologically?
 
First I would say that 120cm is not really big enough for boars. Boars need a lot more room even in a functioning bond. 150cm+ is much better. My boars started in an equivalent 2x4 c&c (approx 140cm) and I saw not dissimilar behaviour to what you are seeing but not bullying. I had the ability to give them more space (they live in my shed) by giving up my storage space, and things instantly improved. They are spoilt now having the 8ft by 6ft shed all to themselves (while I balance hay and food on their hutch roof!). Even with more space, you will see dominance behaviours, it is just what they do. But it is how much now that it’s is bullying (albeit not a full on fight) that is really upsetting Pogo and causing his issues. Giving them a separation can help. If you separate and see Pogo improve then it is a clear sign that their bond is not working and that separation is needed. Percy will not be happy about a separation, you will hear a lot of fuss and noise from him, but it is Pogo’s reaction to a separation which is key.
I would suggest that dividing a 120cm in half would not be a good option, it would leave them both with too little room each.
 
I’m going to be honest with you A 120cm space is small for 2 adult boars. With boars you need plenty of space, loads of places to get away from each other etc. Really a 140-160 cage, with 3 houses (one each and one spare so no fighting). If one is failing to thrive and there is no medical issue then it could well be that bullying is the issue. The only way you would know would be to separate them. But dividing a 120 cage would not give either of them enough space. Youd really need 2 of those side by side so they could interact but not live together.
As a first step, and before you make a permanent move or invest in further cages how about securely dividing a neutral space like a run and see how they behave on either side of the barrier. Set it up with houses, hay trays etc.
If you do separate them like this you can watch their behaviour. If the bullied one is happier, then you will get your answer.
@Betsy recently had to separate her piggies into 2 groups because of behaviour so may be able to give some further first hand advice.
 
So does it sound to you that the bond may be dysfunctional? We're first time GP owners so even though I've had my concerns, I have no previous experience to make comparison against. Up until the vet said what they did, I wasn't sure if it was the bond or if I was just overthinking things. Bear in mind, there is still a small chance that it could be physical. We did not get xrays and blood tests. Having said that, the behaviours I have mentioned have been going for 4-5 months, but have become worse over the last 2-3 weeks and with that a decline in Pogo's weight.

I have a pen that is twice the size of the cage, but I don't think I could use it for a trial separation because we have a very large cat (size, not weight), and the pen obviously doesn't have a top. We can't simply put the pen or the cat in separate rooms, we have an open plan house. We can supervise things during the day, but there would be nothing to stop the cat getting in the pen whilst we're asleep.

A shed isn't an option. Ours isn't big enough with all the garden stuff & bikes in there, and the garden isn't big enough for another shed.

So does that leave me with no option other than another cage?
 
Yes it does sound like it. If it has been going on for a while then it would have been right in the middle of their teenage hormonal months when not having quite enough space would have been a big trigger for things to turn. If it has got worse now and pogo is clearly struggling then Percy is even more likely to want to be top pig and any illness etc in a cage mate can make him more determined to be dominant.
If the pen is not a safe alternative, then a second cage is probably your only option. Separate them and see what happens. If pogo improves then it is bullying and they won’t be able to go back together.
If it turns out it is medical and they will be able to live together in the future, then if you have already purchased a second cage, then maybe you have the option (space allowing) to join the two cages together to them them a lot more room to live together. It doesn’t sound like this is likely though.
 
I had a very unusual situation of 2 boars living with 3 sows for 3 years. This only worked because my Rainbow piggie Velvet was :yikes:DA BOSS:yikes: and wouldn't put up with any misbehaving. One day Christian took over in a surprise coup and started to not let Dennis have any food and Dennis lost quite a bit of weight. I took Dennis to the vet and there was nothing physically wrong with him in fact he was in the peak of health. I started to notice small subtle signs of bullying from Christian, nothing major cos he was still wary of Velvet but it was there. I separated them so Dennis is now living live to the full with his great love Betsy and has started rumbling and has put on loads of weight and Christian is now living with just Meg since we lost Velvet at the beginning of this month. The boars are a lot happier being separated.
 
I had two young boars who behaved like yours to the extent that Caspy spent most of his time huddled in a corner and started to lose weight. They were in a large C&C cage so I put a barrier down the middle and the change in Caspy was instant. Red and Caspy lived like this happily for several months, able to chat through the bars but with Caspy knowing Red wasn't able to get to him he was more confident again. I lost a piggy in January and was able to bond Caspy with his cage mate. A few weeks later I bonded Red with a baby and so far so good.
Have a read through these threads, I think you will find them interesting.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
The above are specifically for boars, the link below is for behaviour and bonding which has lots of information.
Behaviour, Bonding & Bereavement Guides
 
It sounds like separation may be the way to go. They've had several hours in the pen today and seemed okay.

Percy chased Pogo out of his hide and for a few seconds around the pen. Percy pretty much left him alone after that, but did stand outside Pogo's hide a few times. Not sure if that was Percy checking in on Pogo, or if he's reminding Pogo that he's around and not get any funny ideas.

After the initial chase was over, Pogo didn't come out from under his bridge at all. I did see him eat a few bits of hay and lettuce though.
 
I would look for another cage, perhaps you could get a good secondhand one from eBay/Internet and give it a thorough clean and place them side by side. It does sound like a bit of bullying to me.
 
Well, we have continued to keep an eye on things because I didn't want to have to separate them. There was less bullying Saturday and Sunday but then it picked up again today whilst they were in their pen.

I've bought a new cage and have now separated them. I'm not expecting instant improvement, but how long does it usually take for a bullied guinea pig to feel happier after separation?

Not sure if this matters, but they haven't been trying to find one another at all.
 
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