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Eating Cardboard - Clutching At Straws?

Swissgreys

Swissgreys

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I really need some help, and there is only one part of the puzzle that the vet(s) and I can't work out.

Almost 3 weeks ago Ruby deteriorated quickly with what turned out to be bladder sludge.
She was operated on, placed on a course of antibiotics and pain killers, and seemed to recover quite well.

But now (almost 3 weeks later) she is struggling.
Ruby looks good, is eating, pooing, drinking, and her normal chatty self.
But if I drop below feeding her 20ml of critical care per day, her weight drops dramatically.

So far Ruby has been checked for;
teeth
urine
bloods
ultra sound
x-rays

She looks good, is seen by a specialist vet (who has also forwarded her results to the vet college in Zurich), and clinically she is 'fine'.

But she drops weight (10 - 15 grams per day) the minute I stop syringe feeding at least 20mls a day of critical care. We tried pushing the issue, and I didn't feed her for 3 days - she lost 50 grams and dropped below 1kg in body weight.
She is now too thin for us to experiment further.

She has access to fresh food several times a day (she no longer eats the things she once devoured), 7 types of hay, fresh grass, filtered water, 3 types of pellet.
She eats (this has been confirmed) but just not enough to sustain her body weight.
She is thin - I am worried.

The only odd symptom she has is eating cardboard.
She eats quite a bit of cardboard (cut from a hay house) and has also been seen nibbling on fleece, which is unusual behavior for her.
She is still on daily probiotics (we have tried 2 types) and I assume the obsession with cardboard is due to her stomach not feeling great, but we are running out of ideas.

Has anyone else had similar issue with their guinea pig?
I would love suggestions or ideas, as we are now all at a loss as to how to help Ruby progress.
 
I don’t have any advice but wanted to send hugs, you really are going through it.I know Guinea Pigs can chew cardboard for the fibre if they’re not feeling great.
 
Swissgreys said:
I really need some help, and there is only one part of the puzzle that the vet(s) and I can't work out.

Almost 3 weeks ago Ruby deteriorated quickly with what turned out to be bladder sludge.
She was operated on, placed on a course of antibiotics and pain killers, and seemed to recover quite well.

But now (almost 3 weeks later) she is struggling.
Ruby looks good, is eating, pooing, drinking, and her normal chatty self.
But if I drop below feeding her 20ml of critical care per day, her weight drops dramatically.

So far Ruby has been checked for;
teeth
urine
bloods
ultra sound
x-rays

She looks good, is seen by a specialist vet (who has also forwarded her results to the vet college in Zurich), and clinically she is 'fine'.

But she drops weight (10 - 15 grams per day) the minute I stop syringe feeding at least 20mls a day of critical care. We tried pushing the issue, and I didn't feed her for 3 days - she lost 50 grams and dropped below 1kg in body weight.
She is now too thin for us to experiment further.

She has access to fresh food several times a day (she no longer eats the things she once devoured), 7 types of hay, fresh grass, filtered water, 3 types of pellet.
She eats (this has been confirmed) but just not enough to sustain her body weight.
She is thin - I am worried.

The only odd symptom she has is eating cardboard.
She eats quite a bit of cardboard (cut from a hay house) and has also been seen nibbling on fleece, which is unusual behavior for her.
She is still on daily probiotics (we have tried 2 types) and I assume the obsession with cardboard is due to her stomach not feeling great, but we are running out of ideas.

Has anyone else had similar issue with their guinea pig?
I would love suggestions or ideas, as we are now all at a loss as to how to help Ruby progress.
Click to expand...

This may sound really silly but could she be filling up her stomach on cardboard and then she doesn’t feel the need to eat the foods that are good for her? How about removing cardboard hides for now, then perhaps she will switch to hay. I have no expertise in the matter, just an idea x
 
Swissgreys said:
I really need some help, and there is only one part of the puzzle that the vet(s) and I can't work out.

Almost 3 weeks ago Ruby deteriorated quickly with what turned out to be bladder sludge.
She was operated on, placed on a course of antibiotics and pain killers, and seemed to recover quite well.

But now (almost 3 weeks later) she is struggling.
Ruby looks good, is eating, pooing, drinking, and her normal chatty self.
But if I drop below feeding her 20ml of critical care per day, her weight drops dramatically.

So far Ruby has been checked for;
teeth
urine
bloods
ultra sound
x-rays

She looks good, is seen by a specialist vet (who has also forwarded her results to the vet college in Zurich), and clinically she is 'fine'.

But she drops weight (10 - 15 grams per day) the minute I stop syringe feeding at least 20mls a day of critical care. We tried pushing the issue, and I didn't feed her for 3 days - she lost 50 grams and dropped below 1kg in body weight.
She is now too thin for us to experiment further.

She has access to fresh food several times a day (she no longer eats the things she once devoured), 7 types of hay, fresh grass, filtered water, 3 types of pellet.
She eats (this has been confirmed) but just not enough to sustain her body weight.
She is thin - I am worried.

The only odd symptom she has is eating cardboard.
She eats quite a bit of cardboard (cut from a hay house) and has also been seen nibbling on fleece, which is unusual behavior for her.
She is still on daily probiotics (we have tried 2 types) and I assume the obsession with cardboard is due to her stomach not feeling great, but we are running out of ideas.

Has anyone else had similar issue with their guinea pig?
I would love suggestions or ideas, as we are now all at a loss as to how to help Ruby progress.
Click to expand...

Piggies tend to chew cardboard and any rough fibre when their digestive system is unbalanced and they are not feeling well. It is not uncommon after an operation or a long/strong course of antibiotics.

- Have you tried a course of fibreplex and 'poo soup' (healthy fresh poos from a companion soaked in water; then the water is syringed to restock the guts with bacteria etc. Ideal would be a caecotroph, but even a normal poo still contains 'the right stuff' - it mimic natural behaviour) to help rebalance the guts.
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

- Has your vet checked whether the kidneys could have been impacted when the injected fluid caused sludge and urine to back up into ureter?
 
Is she on an antibiotic of any sort, or was she recently? Some of my pigs have reacted to antibiotics by trying to eat non-nutritive things that they normally would just ignore... things like my drywall, my carpets, etc. Hadley demolished my hallway the last time she was on an antibiotic. She was just determined to chew anything. I'm wondering if this could be a contributor to eating cardboard. I've had some pigs be fine with antibiotics and others display some weird eating behaviors.
 
Once again I am so grateful to have this Forum here to come to for support.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply.

Ruby is currently on probiotics, Vit C. and 20 - 30mls Critical care per day.
She finished a 2 week course of Baytril 2 weeks ago.
Her urine is testing clear, and within herself she is bright and happy enough (the vet called her feisty!).
Her latest x-ray and scan both look fine, so the ongoing weight loss and lack of interest in food is a total mystery.
Her teeth have been checked and are fine too.
A month ago she weighed 1200 grams and today she weighs 983 grams :no:

The cardboard eating (and this morning some newspaper) shows she still isn't feeling great though, so we need to get to the bottom of it.
I have just ordered some Fibreplex and Emeraid (we can't get them here) which will hopefully arrive at the weekend.
We are back to the vet again tomorrow, and I might ask if she can go back on Metacam in case she is in pain?
Other than that I am fast running out of ideas.
 
I had exactly this scenario recently with a young boar Hugh who was neutered and had a course of Baytril.
He stopped eating initially and l syringe fed him with critical care and he had gut stimulants as he stopped pooing.
He then started to pooh and eat but very picky and no pellets at all. He ate fresh grass and hay and cardboard reliably but his weight kept dropping so l topped up with syringe feeds.
I then discovered that he would eat the critical care from a bowl and that was the turning point. I gave him 2 or 3 bowls a day. His weight is now going up, he has started eating pellets again.
It has taken 6 weeks to get him right! So hang in there, guinea pig guts are very sensitive!
 
Healing vibes for poor Ruby and :hug:to you. It's horrible not knowing what to do to make one's furry babies better!

I'm guessing the x-ray showed a normal tummy/gut, no signs of gas? Perhaps I'm just seeing it everywhere since my Zebedee had his gassy tummy issues, but that certainly put him off his food and caused him to lose a third of his body-weight. It wasn't until he had the Metronidazole to get rid of the excess bacteria that he started eating again and regaining weight.
 
Oh no! I hope Ruby gets better soon, that little lady is my spirit animal :hug:

There's not a lot of support I can offer but I did have issues weaning Iggy off of critical care and the little devil just wouldn't eat on his own or solid foods (unless they were treats like carrot houses or readigrass of course) so I don't know if that's a possibility for her not eating on her own?

Big hugs to you all, I hope you get to the bottom of it soon! X
 
Would agree with others that it can take some pigs longer to get guts going normally again. She obviously knows her gut isn't right by eating cardboard - using her vast intellect. Were blood results normal for kidney function? When were they done?
If it makes you feel any better, I am quite jealous of 20ml per day, my Oliver is over 2 weeks post op and we are still on 50 to 60ml per day plus hand feeding veg and herbs. He doesn't appear to know I have to go to work some of the time! Come on Ruby.
 
Eating lots of cardboard makes me think the guts aren't quite right yet, she's desperate for some rough fibre.

Like @Cavy Kung-Fu, I had real problems weaning my boy Tubs off CC around a year ago. It was an awful time, he had some sort of systemic infection + partial gut statsis, and Baytril nearly stopped his tummy working completely. After we stopped the antibiotics, it was a struggle to get his weight up. In the end, I think he had just got a bit complacent and used to me feeding him by hand! He ended up being syringe fed for just over 2 months. I believe @Adelle also had this problem with her Fudge.

Things that helped: Fibreplex, Metacam, giving large doses of Vit C (~50mg), feeding progressively thicker CC (by the end it was so thick it was hard to push out the syringe; he won't eat it off a spoon when he's poorly, only when he's fully well will he eat it like it's going out of fashion), syringe feeding a mix of pellets and CC, getting him a couple of tiny lady friends, giving him oat hay (for some reason it made him start eating all kinds of hay again, I guess because it was so tasty, all my pigs go mad for it), sprinkling either Emeraid or Avipro powder on his pellets and veg, sprinkling forage in hay. Points in bold were most helpful, but they may not apply to your case of course.

I know this sounds awful, but Ruby pig can stand to lose a little more weight so you have a little bit of buffer. Once you get her checked out by the vet and nothing is amiss, sometimes it can just be a battle of wills which is horrible; @Adelle documented her journey well here. Tubs was 755g at his worst, but he really had no more weight to lose at that point so it was so hard to get himself to eat under his own power again!
 
OK, so as everyone has been so kind and supportive I thought I would post an update on today's vet visit.

Ruby is continuing to deteriorate, and now barely eating on her own at all.
I am increasing her syringe feeds to 40ml+ per day, and hoping we will see her weight stabilise in the next couple of days.

Clinically she looks ok, and all her recent tests look fine, so we are all (me, our vet, and the vet college vets) a bit baffled as to why she suddenly started deteriorating 3 weeks post op.

So far she has had her teeth checked, multiple x-rays (pre and post surgery), an ultrasound (to check bladder, kidneys and ovarian cysts), full blood work, and multiple urinalysis.
Post surgery she was on a 2 week course of Baytril and a 1 week course of Metacam.

Today the vet decided on no further invasive testing for now.
Ruby is back on Metacam and a 2 week course of Bactrim.
Tonight I collected a urine sample (it only took 3 hours and 20 minutes :yikes: ) and will send a photo of the test strip to the vet for further checks. We chose this as the least stressful option for Ruby.
I will continue syringe feeding including a probiotic (Bene Bac) and Vitamin C.
Ruby will also start on a 'stomach soothing' supplement - RodiKolon which the vet has seen good results with in animals with a reduced or strange appetite (like Ruby and her cardboard eating).

We go back again on Monday, and our goal is no further weight loss.

The vet was also quite upfront about the possible ongoing costs, and said that one of the problems with such advanced testing and treatments being made available is that people often get wrapped up in having endless tests and procedures done to find a definitive answer, even when it is not in the best interests of the animal (or their bank balance). She said that she feels we have exhausted all the relevant test options for Ruby right now (whilst racking up a rather sizeable bill), and we should try and sit back and give her time (whilst ensuring she has a good quality of life and is not in pain). There may be further things we can do later, but she said at this point she always asks people to go home and have a frank and honest discussion with other adults in the house and consider setting a maximum price on vets bills for this particular case. That part was tough to hear.

But right now I am hoping the new antibiotics, combined with pain relief and various supplements are enough to get our little agouti girl back on track.
 
Swissgreys said:
OK, so as everyone has been so kind and supportive I thought I would post an update on today's vet visit.

Ruby is continuing to deteriorate, and now barely eating on her own at all.
I am increasing her syringe feeds to 40ml+ per day, and hoping we will see her weight stabilise in the next couple of days.

Clinically she looks ok, and all her recent tests look fine, so we are all (me, our vet, and the vet college vets) a bit baffled as to why she suddenly started deteriorating 3 weeks post op.

So far she has had her teeth checked, multiple x-rays (pre and post surgery), an ultrasound (to check bladder, kidneys and ovarian cysts), full blood work, and multiple urinalysis.
Post surgery she was on a 2 week course of Baytril and a 1 week course of Metacam.

Today the vet decided on no further invasive testing for now.
Ruby is back on Metacam and a 2 week course of Bactrim.
Tonight I collected a urine sample (it only took 3 hours and 20 minutes :yikes: ) and will send a photo of the test strip to the vet for further checks. We chose this as the least stressful option for Ruby.
I will continue syringe feeding including a probiotic (Bene Bac) and Vitamin C.
Ruby will also start on a 'stomach soothing' supplement - RodiKolon which the vet has seen good results with in animals with a reduced or strange appetite (like Ruby and her cardboard eating).

We go back again on Monday, and our goal is no further weight loss.

The vet was also quite upfront about the possible ongoing costs, and said that one of the problems with such advanced testing and treatments being made available is that people often get wrapped up in having endless tests and procedures done to find a definitive answer, even when it is not in the best interests of the animal (or their bank balance). She said that she feels we have exhausted all the relevant test options for Ruby right now (whilst racking up a rather sizeable bill), and we should try and sit back and give her time (whilst ensuring she has a good quality of life and is not in pain). There may be further things we can do later, but she said at this point she always asks people to go home and have a frank and honest discussion with other adults in the house and consider setting a maximum price on vets bills for this particular case. That part was tough to hear.

But right now I am hoping the new antibiotics, combined with pain relief and various supplements are enough to get our little agouti girl back on track.
Click to expand...
Sending you hugs, I really hope ruby improves soon xx
 
Sounds like a lot to think about. Really hope this new med helps with the digestion. You might need a stiff drink! Sending lots of vibes for Ruby
 
Oh Ruby, I wish you'd stop worrying your mummy and her DD's. Hope you're all okay, sending big hugs to you all, even Ruby with the risk of being mauled :hug:
 
Swissgreys said:
OK, so as everyone has been so kind and supportive I thought I would post an update on today's vet visit.

Ruby is continuing to deteriorate, and now barely eating on her own at all.
I am increasing her syringe feeds to 40ml+ per day, and hoping we will see her weight stabilise in the next couple of days.

Clinically she looks ok, and all her recent tests look fine, so we are all (me, our vet, and the vet college vets) a bit baffled as to why she suddenly started deteriorating 3 weeks post op.

So far she has had her teeth checked, multiple x-rays (pre and post surgery), an ultrasound (to check bladder, kidneys and ovarian cysts), full blood work, and multiple urinalysis.
Post surgery she was on a 2 week course of Baytril and a 1 week course of Metacam.

Today the vet decided on no further invasive testing for now.
Ruby is back on Metacam and a 2 week course of Bactrim.
Tonight I collected a urine sample (it only took 3 hours and 20 minutes :yikes: ) and will send a photo of the test strip to the vet for further checks. We chose this as the least stressful option for Ruby.
I will continue syringe feeding including a probiotic (Bene Bac) and Vitamin C.
Ruby will also start on a 'stomach soothing' supplement - RodiKolon which the vet has seen good results with in animals with a reduced or strange appetite (like Ruby and her cardboard eating).

We go back again on Monday, and our goal is no further weight loss.

The vet was also quite upfront about the possible ongoing costs, and said that one of the problems with such advanced testing and treatments being made available is that people often get wrapped up in having endless tests and procedures done to find a definitive answer, even when it is not in the best interests of the animal (or their bank balance). She said that she feels we have exhausted all the relevant test options for Ruby right now (whilst racking up a rather sizeable bill), and we should try and sit back and give her time (whilst ensuring she has a good quality of life and is not in pain). There may be further things we can do later, but she said at this point she always asks people to go home and have a frank and honest discussion with other adults in the house and consider setting a maximum price on vets bills for this particular case. That part was tough to hear.

But right now I am hoping the new antibiotics, combined with pain relief and various supplements are enough to get our little agouti girl back on track.
Click to expand...

Oh my goodness. It’s so hard fighting when you just don’t know what you’re fighting. Many of us have been there at some point. But I think your vet has been quite pragmatic and sensible, even if it was hard for you to hear. Sometimes veterinary science doesn’t have all the answers, despite how hard we want to believe that it can. It’s certainly worth trying more ABs and pain relief with supplements and giving Ruby the best chance. You are certainly doing all that you can and then some, on top. I am sending you all the warmest hugs. Although it’s you doing all the syringe feeds we are with you on this journey. Xx
 
Sending huge hugs and love and vibes to Ruby. You are doing so well, i hope she turns the corner soon and really interested to find out about this new drug the vet is trying and hope it helps. Ruby is in great hands with you all.
 
sorry i have only just come across this thread - firstly healing vibes to the gorgeous Ruby & a big bearhug for you too @Swissgreys , you must be shattered?!

i'm guessing you have tried the 'poo soup' treatment? have any of her poops been sent away for testing? i think i read somewhere she's had her teeth checked, but she hasn't developed oral thrush has she? this can make eating uncomfortable, especially course foods such as hay. the critical care may be going in easier as it doesn't aggravate her throat?

will she eat fresh grass to try & tempt her back to eating for herself? one of mine was a right sod for eating anything after she had been ill, plain grass got her appetite back more than anything i think. she point blank refused Fibreplex & ended up wearing nearly as much of it as i did!

Grace did really well with Supreme recovery at christmas when she was really ill, she would snatch the spoon away from me with it on as i was trying to mix it! in her prime she was 1400g, but recently shes averaging 1kg at 5yr old'ish, at christmas she was at the 800g mark or just below & felt like skin & bone. she's back to her old self now though thanks to the recovery food. :)

Supreme Science Recovery 10 x 20g - From £17.04
i usually buy from viovet but their site is down for maintenance at the moment - but these deliver to europe, sweden & the netherlands, so hopefully Zurich too! 19euros & 5euros P&P

Has Ruby been checked for worms or fungal? these can sometimes be a cause of weight loss too.

come on Ruby, we're all routing for you - you're the feisty Forum fighter - we need you back to your old self :nod::luv:
xx
 
Thanks for all of the well wishes.
Today has been a difficult day - Ruby is now eating next to nothing on her own, and we have spent all day trying to tempt her with everything and anything - I even bought one of the junky, honey laden chew sticks from the pet store. :yikes:
Before I had a guinea pig that wouldn't eat I always imagined if I was in that situation I would simply cut some nice grass or buy blueberries and coriander and exotic bags of mixed salad to tempt them. So naive.
I even drove to Austria (in between feeds) to buy her favorite hay, and she will barley look at it. :no:

I think part of the problem is that she is really fighting the syringe feeding, and every feed exhausts her, so she just laying in her bed until i haul her out and do it all over again.
I almost feel like I am doing more harm than good, although I know I need to keep it up.
So fingers crossed all of the new meds start to work their magic very soon.
 
Swissgreys said:
Thanks for all of the well wishes.
Today has been a difficult day - Ruby is now eating next to nothing on her own, and we have spent all day trying to tempt her with everything and anything - I even bought one of the junky, honey laden chew sticks from the pet store. :yikes:
Before I had a guinea pig that wouldn't eat I always imagined if I was in that situation I would simply cut some nice grass or buy blueberries and coriander and exotic bags of mixed salad to tempt them. So naive.
I even drove to Austria (in between feeds) to buy her favorite hay, and she will barley look at it. :no:

I think part of the problem is that she is really fighting the syringe feeding, and every feed exhausts her, so she just laying in her bed until i haul her out and do it all over again.
I almost feel like I am doing more harm than good, although I know I need to keep it up.
So fingers crossed all of the new meds start to work their magic very soon.
Click to expand...
Bless you, I know how exhausting and emotional it is to syringe feed a poorly pig.I really hope she improves soon xx
 
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