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Eating Cardboard - Clutching At Straws?

Swissgreys said:
Thanks for all of the well wishes.
Today has been a difficult day - Ruby is now eating next to nothing on her own, and we have spent all day trying to tempt her with everything and anything - I even bought one of the junky, honey laden chew sticks from the pet store. :yikes:
Before I had a guinea pig that wouldn't eat I always imagined if I was in that situation I would simply cut some nice grass or buy blueberries and coriander and exotic bags of mixed salad to tempt them. So naive.
I even drove to Austria (in between feeds) to buy her favorite hay, and she will barley look at it. :no:

I think part of the problem is that she is really fighting the syringe feeding, and every feed exhausts her, so she just laying in her bed until i haul her out and do it all over again.
I almost feel like I am doing more harm than good, although I know I need to keep it up.
So fingers crossed all of the new meds start to work their magic very soon.
Click to expand...

i have a couple of sachets of the supreme recovery here, Grace would go mad for it - I've never had luck with feeding other things like, bio lapis, fibreplex ,CC etc. i could send you some supreme to try, if you wanted? looks like it would take 3-5days to get to you tho. PM me if you'd like to try? not sure how easily you can get it in Zurich? its easily mixed & you only need to to mix part of a sachet/ then it lasts 24hrs, so any leftover are not wasted.
come on Ruby, we need you to be back to your old feisty self :box: xx
 
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It’s so hard when they can’t or won’t make any effort to feed. You must be exhausted. Hugest hugs.
 
I'm so sorry to hear she isn't improving @Swissgreys. Sometimes it just takes a little while once a new med has started for it to kick in. Sorry if you've said this already, have you tried her with any Fibreplex (though I think you said you are using Bene-bac, which is also highly regarded)? Honestly, for me, it does different things from other probiotics (probably due to the high fibre shot).

If it's any consolation, as of last night I have yet again joined the "pig won't eat for love nor money" club with my foster who is currently suffering from bloat. He also hates syringe feeds and fights. I'll be thinking of you :hug:.

Finally, have you tried feeding Ruby in the position modelled by the lovely Fudge below? I've found you can hold under THEIR chin, paws between fingers and also pin their head with YOUR chin so you can coax the syringe in (and stop them throwing their head back because your chest is behind the head). You can honestly be very firm in this position without hurting the pig, I've had to do it a number of times for Tubs who refuses to take meds normally.

 
Danielle Smith said:
Finally, have you tried feeding Ruby in the position modelled by the lovely Fudge below? I've found you can hold under THEIR chin, paws between fingers and also pin their head with YOUR chin so you can coax the syringe in (and stop them throwing their head back because your chest is behind the head). You can honestly be very firm in this position without hurting the pig, I've had to do it a number of times for Tubs who refuses to take meds normally.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion - this might actually be a good one for us, as Ruby is now a master at getting her toes around the syringe and yanking it out of her mouth (sounds impossible, but somehow she is managing it) so this might be the next position to try.
It kind of like '50 Shades of Syringe Feeding'.
Sorry if that's inappropriate - I am slightly delirious from lack of sleep right now so it seemed funny to me!
 
Sorry to hear that little Ruby is so poorly. Also sorry that I have only just seen this thread but just wanted to send healing vibes. I can only feel for you as I know how hard it is to syringe feed a pig and the weight to just not go up. It is dis-heartening but I know you are being strong for you little girl.
Make sure you try to get some rest even though I know that is very hard with poorly piggies.

I laughed at the 50 shades of syringe feeding so I don't think you are delirious quite yet xx
 
I hope Ruby is feeling better soon :( Reminds me of when Blackberry was poorly, no cause at all could be found. The only thing that helped was a course of ranitadine for a while in case of overactive/acidic cecum, but even that didnt work for very long.
Are you able to get Burgess dual care nuggets where you are? It's pretty high calorie for sick pigs, Bramble loves it and when soaked into a paste and mixed with syringe feed it helps them take it as it's so fragrant.

Fingers crossed she's on the mend really soon!
 
I hope Ruby gets better soon, it can be really hard when there is no end in sight. I'm hoping she turns a corner for you both!

Sending healing wheeks.
 
Come on Ruby! Get better soon if all the healing vibes being sent from this Forum are anything to go by you should be your old feisty self very soon!
 
I know you may already have tried this but I when I’ve had some resistance I mix up the syringes so it’s not all CC or Emeraid. Ella’s Kitchen (and similar in Switzerland I’m sure) do organic puréed fruit & veg in squeezable sachets for babies/toddlers. There’s an apple & banana one and another with blueberries & something else. Having a bit of a syringe mix up so there’s something nice has sometimes helped. I end up with numerous prefilled syringes and it’s like syringe lotto what they get in what order. It worked for Poppy when she gave up altogether after her spay.
 
How is she and you this morning? x
 
I agree with the @VickiA theory of mixing it up too, I use different mixes of CC and Recovery plus sachets and use cooled camomile tea or peppermint as the 'mixer' instead of warm water etc. Keep offering herbs and grass too as she might just take it even if rejected before.
What is the vet reason for continuing the AB when all tests were clear? Might be worth revisiting that with vet? All best wishes being sent
 
Ruby is doing ok - she actually seemed a little brighter today, and we tried her on a new complete pellet which she did eat (well one pellet, which is progress).

Her syringe feeding schedule includes CC (alternating regular and fine grind) as well as a third formula which is a Swiss brand which she seems to hate this one slightly less than the others.
If anyone is interested (and can read German) this is the one we use:
Steppis Päppi Päppelbrei Swiss Edition 170g

We switch between mixing the feeds with filtered water and fruit/veg purees.
In between we syringe a random mix of water with Vit C drops, cooled teas (the vet recommended 2 different types - the Swiss LOVE their medicinal teas) and the new stomach supplement RodiKolon.
So it is pretty mixed up - most feeding sessions start with 15 x 1ml syringes (but 2 of those are medication).

The reason we are trying more AB's @Laurabora is that the vet has seen a few cases where a piggy (or rabbit) had a 2 week course of AB's and seems to 'flare' again a week or two later (after the initial AB course).
At this point test results (urine) are still negative, and x-rays look clear, but without other obvious causes the urine/bladder inflammation often shows up again within a few days.
The vet feels that at this point the AB's (a different one from the initial course) can often nip a potential secondary infection in the bud, whilst not doing any major harm (if the piggy is supported with vitamins, probiotics, etc).
There was no real reason to opt for further invasive and stressful testing, so the vet (and I) hope that if the problem is a brewing infection it will be caught early and respond quickly.

Thank you again to everyone for your replies and support.
We are hanging in there.
 
Glad to hear of the slight improvement - long may that continue.
That Swiss recovery stuff looks good.
Do they ship overseas?
Hope you are all bearing up still.
 
Swissgreys said:
OK, so as everyone has been so kind and supportive I thought I would post an update on today's vet visit.

Ruby is continuing to deteriorate, and now barely eating on her own at all.
I am increasing her syringe feeds to 40ml+ per day, and hoping we will see her weight stabilise in the next couple of days.

Clinically she looks ok, and all her recent tests look fine, so we are all (me, our vet, and the vet college vets) a bit baffled as to why she suddenly started deteriorating 3 weeks post op.

So far she has had her teeth checked, multiple x-rays (pre and post surgery), an ultrasound (to check bladder, kidneys and ovarian cysts), full blood work, and multiple urinalysis.
Post surgery she was on a 2 week course of Baytril and a 1 week course of Metacam.

Today the vet decided on no further invasive testing for now.
Ruby is back on Metacam and a 2 week course of Bactrim.
Tonight I collected a urine sample (it only took 3 hours and 20 minutes :yikes: ) and will send a photo of the test strip to the vet for further checks. We chose this as the least stressful option for Ruby.
I will continue syringe feeding including a probiotic (Bene Bac) and Vitamin C.
Ruby will also start on a 'stomach soothing' supplement - RodiKolon which the vet has seen good results with in animals with a reduced or strange appetite (like Ruby and her cardboard eating).

We go back again on Monday, and our goal is no further weight loss.

The vet was also quite upfront about the possible ongoing costs, and said that one of the problems with such advanced testing and treatments being made available is that people often get wrapped up in having endless tests and procedures done to find a definitive answer, even when it is not in the best interests of the animal (or their bank balance). She said that she feels we have exhausted all the relevant test options for Ruby right now (whilst racking up a rather sizeable bill), and we should try and sit back and give her time (whilst ensuring she has a good quality of life and is not in pain). There may be further things we can do later, but she said at this point she always asks people to go home and have a frank and honest discussion with other adults in the house and consider setting a maximum price on vets bills for this particular case. That part was tough to hear.

But right now I am hoping the new antibiotics, combined with pain relief and various supplements are enough to get our little agouti girl back on track.
Click to expand...
I can not add to any of the advice above, but just wanted to say what a great job you are doing in caring for Ruby. It must be such a worrying time for you. Big hugs to you and wee Ruby. xoxo
 
Good luck to little Ruby! It must be difficult not knowing what you're up against.

For what it's worth, I've had very good results with RodiKolan in the past, it works as an appetite stimulant and keeps the gut going.
 
Swissgreys said:
Ruby is doing ok - she actually seemed a little brighter today, and we tried her on a new complete pellet which she did eat (well one pellet, which is progress).

Her syringe feeding schedule includes CC (alternating regular and fine grind) as well as a third formula which is a Swiss brand which she seems to hate this one slightly less than the others.
If anyone is interested (and can read German) this is the one we use:
Steppis Päppi Päppelbrei Swiss Edition 170g

We switch between mixing the feeds with filtered water and fruit/veg purees.
In between we syringe a random mix of water with Vit C drops, cooled teas (the vet recommended 2 different types - the Swiss LOVE their medicinal teas) and the new stomach supplement RodiKolon.
So it is pretty mixed up - most feeding sessions start with 15 x 1ml syringes (but 2 of those are medication).

The reason we are trying more AB's @Laurabora is that the vet has seen a few cases where a piggy (or rabbit) had a 2 week course of AB's and seems to 'flare' again a week or two later (after the initial AB course).
At this point test results (urine) are still negative, and x-rays look clear, but without other obvious causes the urine/bladder inflammation often shows up again within a few days.
The vet feels that at this point the AB's (a different one from the initial course) can often nip a potential secondary infection in the bud, whilst not doing any major harm (if the piggy is supported with vitamins, probiotics, etc).
There was no real reason to opt for further invasive and stressful testing, so the vet (and I) hope that if the problem is a brewing infection it will be caught early and respond quickly.

Thank you again to everyone for your replies and support.
We are hanging in there.
Click to expand...
How is ruby doing? Been thinking of you both x
 
Thanks for thinking of us @Gem789

I have been holding off on posting as it has definitely been a long and arduous journey, but I think we may finally be heading in the right direction with Ruby.

Major milestones include Ruby actually eating recovery formula ON HER OWN yesterday.
A huge shout out to the amazing @GPTV who will forever after be know as 'Ruby's Fairy Godmother' in our house, for sending some sachets of recovery food for Ruby.
Today was also the first day that Ruby had gained weight in several weeks. She is still at least 300 grams underweight, but I finally feel like the loss has stopped and we are heading in the right direction.

Her appetite is slowly returning, but only with twice daily doses of RodiKolan (I missed one day and she stopped eating again) so I think this is a supplement that has really helped.
@RosieMaia how long did you continue using it with your piggy for?

And although she is underweight and not eating as much as she should, she just looks better and seems more like her old self. I never thought I would be happy to have her trying to bite me again, but I am happy to see a bit of the feisty old Ruby back.
She will stay on an extended course of antibiotics for the next couple of weeks, but she has been weaned from Metacam.
I am trying not to get too excited as I have been there before, but I am cautiously optimistic that we might just save our cantankerous little lady after all.
 
That's really great news! Ruby, keep it up! :luv:

Swissgreys said:
Thanks for thinking of us @Gem789
Her appetite is slowly returning, but only with twice daily doses of RodiKolan (I missed one day and she stopped eating again) so I think this is a supplement that has really helped.
@RosieMaia how long did you continue using it with your piggy for?
Click to expand...
I don't remember, I'm afraid. It was a while ago, and haven't had issues with pigs not eating in the past few years. I don't think it would have been more than a week or two (and RodiKolan is rather oily, and I'm usually conscious about the amount of dietary oil they get).

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same medication? I'm referring to this one:
rodikolan2-kopie600x0.jpg
 
RosieMaia said:
That's really great news! Ruby, keep it up! :luv:


I don't remember, I'm afraid. It was a while ago, and haven't had issues with pigs not eating in the past few years. I don't think it would have been more than a week or two (and RodiKolan is rather oily, and I'm usually conscious about the amount of dietary oil they get).

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same medication? I'm referring to this one:
rodikolan2-kopie600x0.jpg
Click to expand...
That is exactly the one we are using.
It is oily and Ruby hates it, but I do believe it was instrumental in getting her interested in food again.
The vet said that because she only needs such a small amount (0.1ml twice a day) and it is a natural supplement there is no harm in continuing with it as long as we feel she needs it.
So I guess for now we will keep going - maybe work on getting her down to one dose a day.
 
Ah, I was advised to use much more from it - 0.5 ml twice or three times daily. I'd say that 0.2 ml per day is safe enough to continue as long as you need :)

Mine hate RodiKolan almost as much as they hate Protexin Fibreplex.
 
Glad to hear Ruby is improving.
I’ve thinking about you all and wondering how she was doing.
Hope the improvement continues.
 
:yahoo: yeayy! that sounds promising - I was wondering how she was getting on & hoping no news was good news :tu:

Sounds like Ruby enjoyed her 'breakfast' on Wednesday then :D

Oh my goodness Thank you! now there's a title to behold 'Ruby's Fairy Godmother' :inn: ..... or should that be 'Ruby The Furry's Godmother'? :))
You're Welcome & I'm glad to have been able to have helped. I know Ruby is a Forum favourite for a lot of people ... even if she is a feisty, cantankerous, little lady for you :gp:

Come on Ruby, keep it up we need you to steadily regain your appetite & weight, here's wishing you a full & speedy recovery. love the girls & I, xx
 
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