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Emergency Vet Appointment This Morning, Toffee Aka Buffy, Very Worried

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Goth Mummy

Goth Mummy

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Hi

@guineabecs
I would appreciate any insights or help!

I noticed late last night (around midnight) when picking her up that Toffee aka Buffy had a lump under her chin, in her throat. It was the size of a small cherry tomato. She was eating well and running round her enclosure so knew that I had to call the vet in the morning and get her seen asap day but didn’t think it was an emergency. At that point I was thinking it might be a fatty cyst or tumour.

I got up at 6am to check her and it was the size of a golf ball. I got an emergency appointment first thing and the vet said it was an abscess (which I had suspected from the speed it grew) and he aspirated 25 mls from the abcess! That’s a huge amount. She has 0.5 mls of baytril twice a day now for the next two weeks.

Its not a dental abscess, its in her throat. There was no sign of injury to her skin.
I really cant believe that her cage mate Ripple aka Willow would have bitten her and caused the abscess. She is the sweetest most gentle pig ever. I cant see anything in their environment that would have caused an injury. No wires or sharp cable ties etc. So I'm very confused as to how it happened. Vet did mention a hay poke injury, but at the moment I have very soft meadow hay and also timothy, which Is chopped.

Also, I'm worried that I have not been told to flush it out at all. My experience of abscesses is mostly horse related and I have always flushed it out every day. Some horses are very prone to them in the sole of the hoof. Any advice please?

Also, is it likely to re-occur? And whats the prognosis? Are abscesses for no apparent reason a common thing? Could it be linked to another condition?

Shes now at work with me so I can keep an eye on her!

Thanks in advance for any advice or experiences
Cassandra
 
If you find that things are not clearing up I would ask the vet about Zithromax as it is supposed to be the best antibiotic for abcesses, though I know a lot of vets have to try Baytril first. I have always understood that abcesses are best left open and need to be flushed regularly. I will tag @Guinea Slave as I know she is doing this at the moment.
 
thanks @helen105281 I had a horrible feeling that it needed flushing, but it was a rushed emergency appointment and by the time I thought of the need for flushing I was out of the vets. I wonder if the vet thought I would know to do it without being told?
I'm really worried now. The vet said bring her back in 3 weeks time. Shes with me now, and to be honest she does not look well, though she has had a horrible morning I guess.
 
Bless her, she has been through a lot. Could you call the vet and ask? She may need some pain relief too if she is uncomfortable.
 
I would give them a ring and ask about flushing it. Like Helen I was under the impression abscesses needed to be kept open and flushed out. They need to heal up from the bottom otherwise they just heal over the top and continue to have a pocket where bugs collect and make further abscesses. We would do the same in people....

I would also ask about pain relief. I'm not surprised she's uncomfortable after having her lump aspirated and being poked about and it was probably painful anyway, the pressure of an unopened abscess is often uncomfortable. I think a lot of vets under prescribe pain relief in piggies and some other small animals. Possibly because they cover pain so well and only us as their owners who know them well can spot the signs of discomfort but also because of the lack of god evidence about painkiller effects in piggies so they are over cautious. It's always worth asking the question. A piggy in discomfort will be less likely to eat and drink which are vital for healing and fighting infection. Poor nutrition has massive effects on wound healing in most species.
 
OK thanks @MerryPip and @helen105281 I'm going to ring the vet, and can pop back later this afternoon if necessary. Oh poor piggy, she is such a lovely girl, and I am so worried.

I was only thinking the other day that I could really do with a good veterinary manual for piggies/small animals. I have a Veterinary manual for horses and it goes into great detail of all ailments, injuries, treatment options and prognosis. Its very detailed, and written for student vets as well as horse owners, and I keep it in my tack room (so I can read up whilst waiting for the vet to arrive at the stable, invaluable as my horse has both cushings disease, cancer and is dreadfully accident prone). That really helps me to get the best out of a short vet appointment or to be able to actually give the vet the information she needs.

Is there any such book available for piggies? Any recommendations?
thank you for your support and replies, I really appreciate it at this worrying time.
 
I have a couple but even they don't cover everything, I am lucky that I have my friend to refer to if I am not sure about something. I can get the names of the books that I do have when home later though.
 
There is very little in the way of good vet texts on piggies. Unfortunately they are a species that just doesn't make up much of a vets caseload so there just isn't the research or drive to produce research into treatment for them. It is an unfortunate fact that research is mainly driven by profit and as piggies don't make much money then the research isn't funded. That's why so many drugs that we know are good for piggies aren't licensed. There just isn't the financial payback for doing the trials needed to license them for such a small number of users.

Most of what I've learned is extrapolated form my knowledge of human medicine (particularly wound healing) and my OH is a doctor who has also got a degree in pharmacology so is fab for drug questions. Lots of the other things I've learned have also come from looking at research papers which were aimed at human drug research using guinea pigs because the knowledge is still helpful in treating the piggies too. But I know that's not everyone's idea of good reading!

The best thing is to foster a good relationship with a vet who you can trust, where you can ask questions, discuss options even if they are non-standard and try drugs even if they are not on license for piggies. My vets don't treat lots of piggies but they respect my knowledge and experience as an owner and do their best to discuss all options with me (even if they do make us sign disclaimers for many medications including metacam as they are not always licensed int eh doses we use...). They did an amazing job of treating Struan's bladder stone and the mammary tumours they found too as well as the resulting huge chronic wound. They listened to me and we worked together to get a good result (his tummy is fully healed now 7 weeks post surgery). They also work in partnership with a local exotics practice for those cases when they need som expert advice. That's worth it's weight in gold to me...
 
Thank you @helen105281 I would appreciate the names of the books you have

@MerryPip thanks that makes sense. What a shame that everything is driven by profit and not for the sake of research. I suppose horses are big business. I think a vet bill that comes in at under £1000 for a horse is "getting away with it lightly" and I am only an pet owner, I guess performance horses have much more than that spent on them. I had no idea that vets don't see many guinea pigs. I have been to the vet with mine often enough and they are very popular pets, so I wonder why vets don't have more experience. This is the first abscess I have had in all my life of owning piggies.

Caroline and Antonia seemed to specialise in developing URIs so I got quite good at dealing with those and built up a good relationship with that vets, but we have moved house since then.
 
Unfortunately most pets smaller than rabbits, and even they can be too are seen as 'disposable' pets. Owners often find it cheaper and less hassle to just 'get another one' For every pampered and well cared for pig on this forum there are sadly hundreds stuck in hutches, forgotten at the bottom of gardens, bought as family pets but now with little interest. The vets only don't see them because people don't make the effort to take them to the vets....

Also piggies are so good at hiding illness that even experienced owners can fund that by the time we notice there is something wrong it's at a critical stage and often very difficult for versatile diagnose. These wonderful animals are a real challenge health wise!
 
So sorry, been out all day (day off). The wound must heal from the inside out, you must not let it heal over otherwise a scab will form, bacteria will increase and you will be back to square 1. My vet actually stitched her wound open and I was under strict instructions to flush twice daily with saline solution (it's in a drip bottle which I have to draw out using a hyperdermic needle). After this, I stuff the wound with manuka honey.

This has been going on now for two weeks and we are hoping the end is in sight but it's a lot of work and is vital.

My vet also cultured the bacteria, she is on baytril, metronidazole (another antibiotic in response to the culture) and max dose metacam twice a day. She was in a lot of pain.

Sadly it sounds like your vet has no clue...do you have anyone else you can go to? 25ml is huge! Titch had 4 ml drawn off then an operation under anaesthetic to flush out properly. She has also been seen by the vet every 3 days (not weeks! ) to scrape out any remaining pus. This is important to avoid further infection.

Healing vibes and please feel free to pm if you need anything.? X
 
This is her wound after 5 days, you can see the stitches keeping it open and it's about a cm or so deep. This was the least yucky photo I could find !
 
Umm, I don't think you would have liked it early on ! You are right though, it's been a fascinating journey!
 
Guinea Slave said:
Umm, I don't think you would have liked it early on ! You are right though, it's been a fascinating journey!
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You should see the size of the hole in Struan's belly we've been healing over the past 7 weeks, it was a corker! I'm not at all squeamish about these things and having done some tissue viability training at work I'm happy to get in there and clean nasty wounds and such like :)
 
Wow you are brave! Is Struan very vocal when you do it? Titch screams the place down!
 
Stru has been an absolute angel. He's not keen on it but having the wound washed and gel on it twice a day for nearly 4 weeks, he got pretty used to it. He looks brilliant now, only a tiny line in his fur on his belly and a few wrinkles to show where there was a wound that was about 4cm x 2cm by 1cm deep!
We did have to give him loads of metacam to start with though as he was so uncomfortable. The day we brought him home after surgery he was so sore he was crying and looked like death warmed up so we had to up his dosage massively (with vet permission) after that we managed to get it down gradually but he'd have a dose about a half hour before we cleaned him up or he had a vet appointment so he could cope.
 
You sound like an amazing carer. Poor boy, glad he is on the mend. Sounds awful.

I give titch her painkiller half an hour beforehand as well, however she still feels the need to scream every time... Full mouth open, ear splitting scream. Pleased it's not summer and no windows are open otherwise people would think there was a murder happening! She is a bit of a Diva. Amazing lungs lol!
 
Guinea Slave said:
You sound like an amazing carer. Poor boy, glad he is on the mend. Sounds awful.

I give titch her painkiller half an hour beforehand as well, however she still feels the need to scream every time... Full mouth open, ear splitting scream. Pleased it's not summer and no windows are open otherwise people would think there was a murder happening! She is a bit of a Diva. Amazing lungs lol!
Click to expand...
I'm sure they do it just to make us panic lol
 
I got quite upset and worried to start with, but as it's healing well and I know she is feeling better but nonetheless the screams are getting louder... I kind of just let her get on with it....! Thinking of getting ear plugs...
 
What type of abscesses are these? My vet/s have always removed my piggies' abscesses, I've never had to flush out any before, surely removal (If possible) is a better option than weeks of discomfort for the piggy? I've had 2 piggies have theirs removed by the wonderful Simon at the Cat & Rabbit clinic & one removed on one of the same piggies by my current vet (As she is nearer). Neither of them has ever suggested biopsies or partial removal & flushing in this way so I wondered if there are different types, or is this a preference by the vet do you think? :)
 
It is best to flush out abscesses. They need to be open to heal from the inside out. Sundae had a large abscess on the size of her face and it took months of flushing to get it to stop producing pus and heal (though it did eventually heal and did not recur.) Guinea pigs are prone to abscesses, often for no apparent reason. They have very thick pus that is hard for their bodies to clear away. I doubt it was a bite that caused it... from what I have heard and read, the throat is a very common place for abscesses to form, often due to bacterial infection of a simply hay-poke or scratch in the mouth. I also wish that there was a really thorough manual for guinea pig care. Unfortunately, they aren't money-makers from a veterinary perspective (the situation seems to be slightly better in the UK, but in Canada, where I am, people are surprised that I even take my guinea pigs to the vet. The mentality seems to be that they are disposable vets for children and if your guinea pig gets sick, you can always get another one for 20 dollars at the pet store.) If you want to learn, try to cultivate a good relationship with a vet. I absolutely love my vet, and he has learned that I'm very hands-on and not squeamish and has taught me a lot about wound care. I also have a piggie on antibiotic suppressive therapy for life due to bladder issues, and he has taught me how to measure out and mix my own antibiotics so that I can buy in bulk for less and mix at home, which I appreciate! He's told me I should have been a vet more than once. I really appreciate the attention he pays the pigs and the amount of stuff he's been willing to show me that I can do at home (especially considering it takes money out of his pocket, since if I couldn't do it, I would have to pay him to do it for me!) I hope your pig makes a full recovery. Just keep flushing the wound, express any pus that builds up (it may be very thick, almost like glue!) and make sure she is eating and drinking. I know you'll get great advice for abscess care here, as I've gotten great advice myself about abscesses!
 
Poppy'sMum said:
What type of abscesses are these? My vet/s have always removed my piggies' abscesses, I've never had to flush out any before, surely removal (If possible) is a better option than weeks of discomfort for the piggy? I've had 2 piggies have theirs removed by the wonderful Simon at the Cat & Rabbit clinic & one removed on one of the same piggies by my current vet (As she is nearer). Neither of them has ever suggested biopsies or partial removal & flushing in this way so I wondered if there are different types, or is this a preference by the vet do you think? :)
Click to expand...
I think to an extent it is at the discretion of the vet and can vary according to the location of the abscess. One of my pigs had an abscess on her lower back/flank that was removed encapsulated- they were able to do this because, although it was large, there was a lot of loose skin in the area that allowed them to stretch over and close the wound completely. It was also only affecting surface tissue so there was no need to 'dig' to find the bottom, if that makes sense. Two of my other pigs had facial/jawline abscess that were lanced and drained instead. The rationale was that it would be a very delicate surgery to remove them entirely, given the size and depth of the abscess, the fact that there are a lot of muscles and nerves in the facial area that could be damaged in surgery. In addition, the vet was concerned that closing the wound would be an issue, given the size and the fact that there is not a lot of 'stretch' on the facial skin. So in those cases, he though that lancing and draining was the safer option in terms of prognosis. So it seems to vary partly on the vet preference/comfort level and partly on the abscess itself.
 
Totally agree with above. I have had several with abscesses on the rump and these were all removed and stitched. However as stated above, the one on titchs face was very deep and needed to be left open, there was simply not enough flesh to stitch effectively and prevent reoccurrence. Believe me, I have questioned in my head every day I have done this whether it's the right thing but I 100% trust my vet.
 
These are the books I have:



I did get good deals on them though, not the silly prices they are selling for now.

I also have this

 
I have the blue one too. It's not bad and one of the best I could find around. Otherwise there's not much else...
 
It is really good, just a bit out of date unfortunately.
 
@Goth Mummy @MerryPip @helen105281 i also have the blue one... so does my vet... they sometimes look in it & i think... i have already done that bit :whistle:...haven't ever told them that though!

i did buy The Official Guide to Guinea Pig Diagnostics, Surgery, Medication and Welfare by Vedra Stanley Spatcher too, a lot of useful info in there & goes from the pet owner to veterinary levels & some diagnostic flow charts that i have used on odd occasions (bought it off of the Cambridge cavy trust website.) its also quite a recent book, only published approx 2-3yrs ago

Healing vibes for a speedy recovery to Toffee/buffy :tu::nod:
From the girls & i. xx
 
15110773564_ae41a8fc7d.jpg


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Firstly, this is Buffy/Toffee. You can easily see the abscess now that her hair has been shaved from the lump. As you can see from this second photo, there is no drainage hole, a needle was used to aspirate that that closed up almost immediately. I rang the vet back last night to say that it seemed like the lump was filling back up and she was uncomfortable again and was told that it would go down once the baytril got into her system, but if not then I would have to bring her back to have it aspirated again.
This morning I rang back to say I was not happy about her as she is uncomfortable and asked the receptionist to ring me back with details of the operation to remove the abscess (its encapsulated and near the surface and the vet had mentioned that as a possibility if aspiration did not work), I want to have a discussion about her treatment options and prognosis/risks of each option. (Does that sound OK? I don’t want to come across as a complete PITA!).
Thank you SO much everyone for the advice, thoughts and book recommendations. It means so much to me that so many of you have taken time to write detailed replies to me, and that give me such a wealth of information. I'm really touched by everyone’s kindness.
 
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