Engel's Herd

Engel said:
@Wiebke thats really tough going. Most people would have given up.

That'll be difficult. There needs to be room for an electric mower (small Flymo type) although I'm sure a strong hutch will be able to hold the weight of it if I put it on the roof?

as well as hay storage and substrate. But that is light and can be stacked.

the shed has no windows so I need to make a second door to go on the inside which is meshed to keep the dogs out yet allows air and light in for part of the day at least.

in the new year I will be getting them there own shed but money is tight at the moment with Xmas. I'm aiming to get one with an opening window and hopefully a stable type door.

would it be possible to get a 5ft double hutch and take a section away on the bottom so a pig can come down the ramp (they both use ramps) and socialise through the mesh? This does mean the pig on the bottom floor will have slightly less room but would that work?

If it does work, I'm thinking Oreo will be on the bottom so I don't have to worry about any babies with the ramp. Once we know what's going on regarding babies/neutering I can then re arrange things as they'll hopefully have a new shed to themselves then
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Considering that the shed is on the smaller side, having a large two tier hutch would be the most practical solution. boars would to do better above sows because of the sow pheromone issue - they don't necessarily rise but they most definitely sink. And sows in season producing lots of them can most definitely upset boys; especially teenagers.

It is a difficult time for you, but you will work through it and will eventually find a practical permanent solution once all the dust has settled.
Please make sure that you winter-proof the shed and be prepared to bring the piggies indoors during a heat spike when a shed can turn into a heat trap.
Cold Weather Care For Guinea Pigs
Hot Weather Management, Heat Strokes and Fly Strike
 
The size of the shed does make it difficult. You couldn’t fit two one floor hutches in either, and they wouldn’t work if you ended up with some boar pairs. It’s a tricky one...I’m trying to picture taking out the bottom bit so one can go on the shed floor but I’m having trouble! Sorry it’s me rather than your explanation.

If they’re going to be using the shed floor seriously you have to think about insulation and heating.

Whether you can put the lawnmower on top depends on it’s size and weight. You could put it in the far corner and leave the other space for floor area.

Sorry I’ve probably not helped much 🙄
 
Siikibam said:
The size of the shed does make it difficult. You couldn’t fit two one floor hutches in either, and they wouldn’t work if you ended up with some boar pairs. It’s a tricky one...I’m trying to picture taking out the bottom bit so one can go on the shed floor but I’m having trouble! Sorry it’s me rather than your explanation.
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My explanation has confused you I think. Let's see if I can explain it better.
We'll use the bluebell hutch as an example

26267_02~2.webp
Purple- a rail to stop piggy falling

Red - board down the side of the ramp creating a wall so piggy can go into the section on the left of the blue.

Blue- another wall except this will have mesh so pigs can interact without getting to each other (for the time being)

Green- thinking adding ply wood over the door to help with any drafts for the piggy on the bottom floor.


Hopefully that makes more sense. 😅
 
longer term, depending on the combination of sexes, a two storey hutch would be fine - boars at top, sows at bottom
its the shorter term while they are singles, how do they have through the bar interaction, be warm enough and have enough space. having the mesh area/communication area could work but it is of course the bottom piggy is then entirely dependent on the upper piggy coming down the ramp to provide that interaction.

I'm literally throwing any ideas out here - I'm not sure they are workable, but its just where my mind is going!

a 5ft hutch (if double storey, then don't use the top half in this temporary scenario - useful for storage maybe). lawnmower on top of hutch roof (assuming that'll work). A garden storage box for the piggy items/hay etc outside. split the bottom level of the hutch in half so they've got 2.5 ft of hutch space each, but then give them the area in front of each half of the hutch as well, so they will both end up with 2.5 ft x 4ft while they are singles. you're issue here will be keeping them warm given a lot of their living space will be open. perhaps you could find a way to cover it though (we can get our thinking caps on!).

two indoor cages next to each other - that'll enable constant through the bar interaction, they could be on tables so you'd get storage space underneath. the biggest issue is keeping an indoor cage warm in a shed. of course you've then got the issue of having to buy twice - a temporary solution and then a more permanent one once you know what is going on neutering/babies etc

I know its an example, but I have a bluebell hutch and if you were to divide off the area at the bottom of the ramp where you indicate, the piggy living in the downstairs area will have such a small space. It wouldn't work if babies came along, it would be too small. I can go and measure how much space the bottom level would actually should a divider be put where you propose.
 
Ive just run out and measured - the available space for the bottom resident would be just 93 cm x 50cm. (its a 5ft x 2ft hutch but that refers to the roof. Once you measure inside, hutches are smaller.
To get enough space to do this proposal, you need a 6ft hutch and then it wouldn't fit in the shed. Given the same applies to sheds - a 6ft x 4ft is external measurements so inside it measures 5 ft something by 3 ft something
 
Piggies&buns said:
Ive just run out and measured - the available space for the bottom resident would be just 93 cm x 50cm. (its a 5ft x 2ft hutch but that refers to the roof. Once you measure inside, hutches are smaller.
To get enough space to do this proposal, you need a 6ft hutch and then it wouldn't fit in the shed. Given the same applies to sheds - a 6ft x 4ft is external measurements so inside it measures 5 ft something by 3 ft something
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You're a star thank you.

So that wouldn't work. What if I had one pig on top floor the other on the bottom and a c&c type thing at the front of the hutch. Then in the morning bring the pig from the top floor into the c&c (with loads of hay and hides and what not.) So they could interact through the mesh then put them back at night?

Also if it's cold can I keep the shed door closed and provide them with a light which I'll switch off at night?
 
Also I don't know if this would work but I have a greenhouse (made of hard plastic and metal) that's up all year round and is 8x6? It has a door and opening window. Obviously just for winter. But it has more space than the shed
 
each two storey hutch has the ramp come down in different places etc so there are going to be variations but in a 5ft hutch you're not going to get enough space on the bottom. my other hutch (the one the piggies live in) is a 6ft hutch, but now I think about it, their ramp comes down almost in the middle so dividing even that particular 6ft hutch would still produce a bottom part which was too small without doing some other alterations or positioning the mesh differently. anyway, I'm just thinking out loud there really.

bringing the top one down for the day time is a good solution - it would obviously mean that their period of through the bar interaction would be limited but its a viable temporary solution.

you'll have to keep the door closed if its cold/raining/snowing etc and then it obviously means they aren't getting any natural light. not ideal but you are in a tricky situation and at the moment you've got to do whatever you can to make it work.

you don't have electricity in the shed, no? putting a light on in the day time is a good solution, but a battery powered light won't last long. I have a battery powered light in my shed which I use purely so I can see to put their heat pads in at night....I'm always putting new batteries in even though its only on for a short period of time.

the greenhouse, again, insulation, temperature dependent. plastic can condensate if you've got warmth inside so id be concerned about damp. it might work though
 
the more I think about it, I think given all the options currently thought out I would go with lifting the top piggy down into a playpen at the front of the bottom section. you can use heat pads, hides, hay etc to make sure the one in the playpen was warm enough. I think its the best short term option.

when you get a new shed is it going to be bigger than 6x4? I'm just thinking longer term, if you've got a boar pair in the mix, then you really going to need a 6ft x 2ft hutch to give them enough space (and a 6ft x 2ft downstairs section would be big enough for three sows together)
 
@Piggies&buns the greenhouse does protect against wind and rain but it does get condensation on the inside without anything in it. On the plus side it will allow lots of natural light so wouldn't need to worry about installing a light. I also won't be using the greenhouse until may.

Shed doesn't have any electrics. Protects against wind and rain. No condensation. But is smaller so the c&c will be smaller. No natural light.

I'll have to think how I'm going to insulate the floor of the shed or greenhouse for the pig that goes into the run.

I'm hoping for a 7x5. Enough room for a double hutch and floor space
 
I wouldn't use the greenhouse at all - if you aren't using it until May then id be concerned about it becoming far too hot

don't worry about the c&c part being smaller. as long as you could get a good sized hutch - if it was a 5ft hutch, then the c&c could be a 2x4 ( or near enough given you've got a 4ft width, then the hutch would take up half of it so you'd have slightly less than a 2 wide c&c cage (you'd have to overlap grids a little, and 4 grids on length would 150cm so the width of a 5ft hutch) then its fine
 
Piggies&buns said:
I wouldn't use the greenhouse at all - if you aren't using it until May then id be concerned about it becoming far too hot

don't worry about the c&c part being smaller. as long as you could get a good sized hutch - if it was a 5ft hutch, then the c&c could be a 2x4 ( or near enough given you've got a 4ft width, then the hutch would take up half of it so you'd have slightly less than a 2 wide c&c cage (you'd have to overlap grids a little, and 4 grids on length would 150cm so the width of a 5ft hutch) then its fine
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Okay then. How do you insulate the floor for your boys?
 
Engel said:
Okay then. How do you insulate the floor for your boys?
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I’ve got old carpet on my shed floor, then an old plastic tablecloth, I then use whatever bedding depending on the time of year. Ill admit the floor insulation does it job (they certainly aren’t cold in there) but it could be better, it’s just that I was supposed to have a new shed by now but coronavirus stopped everything. My new shed will be much more properly insulated.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’ve got old carpet on my shed floor, then an old plastic tablecloth, I then use whatever bedding depending on the time of year. Ill admit the floor insulation does it job (they certainly aren’t cold in there) but it could be better, it’s just that I was supposed to have a new shed by now but coronavirus stopped everything. My new shed will be much more properly insulated.
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Ok. How does this sound:
Silver insulation stuff (on a roll) with correx on top. Layer of puppy pads. Thick blanket. (Or fleece blanket, puppy pads then another fleece blanket.) With hay on top? Could that work
 
Yes that would work.
I’d personally not put hay on top of fleece simply as it’s a nightmare to get off (particularly when you’re talking about the quantities outdoor piggies need in winter). If it were me I’d not use the fleece at all (and I don’t use fleece outside in winter anyway); or use it in such a position for it to be another insulating layer but not directly under the hay (so, fleece, then puppy pads, then hay).
 
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Thanks @Piggies&buns I'll do that :)

On another note, I've weighed piggies. It hasnt been a week since I last did it but I've managed to get them both out (they're not a fan of being picked up or willingly walking into the carrier). I don't know if I'll manage to get them out again this week without stressing them out so I thought Id weigh while I could. (I normally weigh them this time of night too. They had veggies at 9am and don't get pellets until 10pm so they just have a hay belly)

It's been 5 days since I last weighed them
Oreo has gained 53g and is now 698g
Chunk hasn't gained as much, only 22g, so he's now 429g.

They'll be coming up to 11 weeks now. Does it seem possible that chunks main growing period is coming to an end as he's almost 3 months? I'll keep weighing him but if his weekly gain stays this low could it be a sign? He's still eating and seems fine btw.
 
Engel said:
Thanks @Piggies&buns I'll do that :)

On another note, I've weighed piggies. It hasnt been a week since I last did it but I've managed to get them both out (they're not a fan of being picked up or willingly walking into the carrier). I don't know if I'll manage to get them out again this week without stressing them out so I thought Id weigh while I could. (I normally weigh them this time of night too. They had veggies at 9am and don't get pellets until 10pm so they just have a hay belly)

It's been 5 days since I last weighed them
Oreo has gained 53g and is now 698g
Chunk hasn't gained as much, only 22g, so he's now 429g.

They'll be coming up to 11 weeks now. Does it seem possible that chunks main growing period is coming to an end as he's almost 3 months? I'll keep weighing him but if his weekly gain stays this low could it be a sign? He's still eating and seems fine btw.
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They don’t stop growing until 12-15 months of age, so he’s got a long way to go yet. You’ll notice he will continue to gain weight until around that point in age. They will gain in their own time. You may find he puts on a lot next time.
 
Piggies&buns said:
They don’t stop growing until 12-15 months of age, so he’s got a long way to go yet. You’ll notice he will continue to gain weight until around that point in age. They will gain in their own time. You may find he puts on a lot next time.
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Yes I know that they're not fully grown until then. What I mean is do they have a period where they rapidly put on weight then slow down? Like continue growing but at a slower pace?
 
Piggies&buns said:
a 5ft hutch (if double storey, then don't use the top half in this temporary scenario - useful for storage maybe). lawnmower on top of hutch roof (assuming that'll work). A garden storage box for the piggy items/hay etc outside. split the bottom level of the hutch in half so they've got 2.5 ft of hutch space each, but then give them the area in front of each half of the hutch as well, so they will both end up with 2.5 ft x 4ft while they are singles. you're issue here will be keeping them warm given a lot of their living space will be open. perhaps you could find a way to cover it though (we can get our thinking caps on!).
Click to expand...

Re-reading all comments regarding shed accommodation. Sorry about going back and forth.

If I were to split the bottom and they have 2.5 with the extra c&c out the front. Is it ok for me to close them back into the hutch at night? More for my own piece of mind if anything.

For the extra c &c bit. Could I put a fleece blanket over top then a layer of foil insulation stuff then another fleece?
 
That’s really not big enough. There wouldn’t be much room to move around, so I would say no. The (indoor commercial) cages in the hutch is quite a good idea...
 
Engel said:
Re-reading all comments regarding shed accommodation. Sorry about going back and forth.

If I were to split the bottom and they have 2.5 with the extra c&c out the front. Is it ok for me to close them back into the hutch at night? More for my own piece of mind if anything.

For the extra c &c bit. Could I put a fleece blanket over top then a layer of foil insulation stuff then another fleece?
Click to expand...

No if you did the 2.5 split on the bottom part of the hutch then you wouldn’t be able to lock them in at lo as the hufch is too small. They need constant access out into the c&c bit to give them a 4ft x 2ft cage space each .(4ft x 2ft is the minimum size a single piggy can be kept in). The pro to this scenario is they’d have constant side by side interaction but the huge con is keeping them warm in an in heated shed. It’s not just over the top, you’d have to insulate the sides of the c&c cage as well as.

I think the best solution is your own one of bringing one down during the day for interaction and then putting one of them back to the upper level of the hutch. It’s not ideal as they’d lose interaction all night but youd be able to rest assured knowing you could keep them warm.
 
Siikibam said:
That’s really not big enough. There wouldn’t be much room to move around, so I would say no. The (indoor commercial) cages in the hutch is quite a good idea...
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Ok. How would you go about keeping me cages warm?
 
Piggies&buns said:
No if you did the 2.5 split on the bottom part of the hutch then you wouldn’t be able to lock them in at lo as the hufch is too small. They need constant access out into the c&c bit to give them a 4ft x 2ft cage space each .(4ft x 2ft is the minimum size a single piggy can be kept in). The pro to this scenario is they’d have constant side by side interaction but the huge con is keeping them warm in an in heated shed. It’s not just over the top, you’d have to insulate the sides of the c&c cage as well as.

I think the best solution is your own one of bringing one down during the day for interaction and then putting one of them back to the upper level of the hutch. It’s not ideal as they’d lose interaction all night but youd be able to rest assured knowing you could keep them warm.
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Yes but that's 10hrs of no interaction. Won't that effect them?
 
Engel said:
Yes but that's 10hrs of no interaction. Won't that effect them?
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It’s really not ideal but your options are limited by the space. The best thing is having constant side by side interaction but there is also the concern of keeping them warm enough in an open cage in an untested shed.

you could insulate the cage with foil insulation on the outside and with blankets of course you still need to leave air flow! Insulation is only part of the story though, you need the heat produced inside in the first place. It’s possible though just needs some planning!

I think what you need to do is get a thermometer out there and see what temperatures you are dealing with right now (well, overnight) and that’ll help you decide what measures are going to be needed.

my shed stays around 5-10 degrees warmer than outside temps without measures, so with the measures within their hutch I can keep them at a good temperature. It’s just not going to be quite so easy with an open cage but could well be possible.
 
Piggies&buns said:
It’s really not ideal but your options are limited by the space. The best thing is having constant side by side interaction but there is also the concern of keeping them warm enough in an open cage in an untested shed.

you could insulate the cage with foil insulation on the outside and with blankets of course you still need to leave air flow! Insulation is only part of the story though, you need the heat produced inside in the first place. It’s possible though just needs some planning!

I think what you need to do is get a thermometer out there and see what temperatures you are dealing with right now (well, overnight) and that’ll help you decide what measures are going to be needed.

my shed stays around 5-10 degrees warmer than outside temps without measures, so with the measures within their hutch I can keep them at a good temperature. It’s just not going to be quite so easy with an open cage but could well be possible.
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Ok will do that.

Another idea, thinking out loud, what if I got 2 4ft hutches. Took one of the walls out or made a hole on each, replaced with mesh. Then they've got space and interaction. Now this means it can't go in the shed so over winter it'll have to go in the green house with some dehumidifiers, covers, snuggle safes ect.

When it gets warmer I can move the hutches into the veggies patch which is fenced off and sheltered. Keeping the covers on them at night when it drops cooler and to protect from rain.

Hopefully I'll have the shed by then

I'll keep cages indoors for if it's too hot so they can come in during the day and go back out in the evening.

Would that work? I'm either compromising on space or interaction or location.
 
Scrap my previous post. I'll do the split bottom of the hutch with c&c front.

Right ideas for keeping c&c part warm. Could I use hot water bottles wrapped in a towel? As well as snuggle safe and hay?
 
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