Engel's Herd

[Engel]

Now.

Ok I'll order some now. Won't this make the babies too big though? Or at this stage it shouldn't be as much of an issue?

 

[Piggies&buns]

as it’s usually colder after December, then they really should stay in until April time now.
it’ll also mean you will be able to plan your shed a bit more easily as you’ll know sexes and combinations of piggies so will be easier to plan with how to house them when you do put them out

 

[Wiebke]

Ok I'll order some now. Won't this make the babies too big though? Or at this stage it shouldn't be as much of an issue?

I would give one handful per day until birth and then up it. As long as you restrict the pellets, this should be fine. The alfalfa is the best wy of making up for nutritional deficits but by giving your mother the choice of how much she actually wants, she won't overfeed.

 

[Engel]

as it’s usually colder after December, then they really should stay in until April time now.
it’ll also mean you will be able to plan your shed a bit more easily as you’ll know sexes and combinations of piggies so will be easier to plan with how to house them when you do put them out

Yes that would make things a lot easier. Am I able to keep female and males in the same shed? If I had 2 5ft double hutches and had females in one and males in another? Or would that not work as they can see each other? Obviously I'm basing this off the assumption that she'll be having at least one sow and one boar.

 

[Engel]

I would give one handful per day until birth and then up it. As long as you restrict the pellets, this should be fine. The alfalfa is the best wy of making up for nutritional deficits but by giving your mother the choice of how much she actually wants, she won't overfeed.

The pellets don't have alfalfa in them thankfully, just Timothy. After birth do I give unlimited pellets alongside the alfalfa or just 1 tablespoon per pig like normal?

Also I don't know about over feed. I'm having to refill hay 3-4 times a day now it used to be just twice.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes that would make things a lot easier. Am I able to keep female and males in the same shed? If I had 2 5ft double hutches and had females in one and males in another? Or would that not work as they can see each other? Obviously I'm basing this off the assumption that she'll be having at least one sow and one boar.

Assuming sexes, then a 5ft hufch isn’t likely to be big enough for two boars together. 5ft is the minimum for a boar pair but I can say from experience that 6ft is much better. Being double storey doesn’t make the hutch any bigger. They need 6ft in a single level.
of course if you ended up with three sows and two boars then the sows would also need 6ft anyway.

it can be risky, particularly if you’re keeping them both at the same height. boar pair smelling sows can cause the boar pair to fight with each other. You can minimise it by having one 6ft hutch double storey hutch (with no ramp between the levels) with the boar pair at the top and the sow pair at the bottom. That way sow pheromones will not fall downwards onto the boys. You must still be very careful and ensure you never handle the girls first as you could transfer girly smells to the boys.

 

[Engel]

Assuming sexes, then a 5ft hufch isn’t likely to be big enough for two boars together. 5ft is the minimum for a boar pair but I can say from experience that 6ft is much better. Being double storey doesn’t make the hutch any bigger. They need 6ft in a single level.
of course if you ended up with three sows and two boars then the sows would also need 6ft anyway.

it can be risky, particularly if you’re keeping them both at the same height. boar pair smelling sows can cause the boar pair to fight with each other. You can minimise it by having one 6ft hutch double storey hutch (with no ramp between the levels) with the boar pair at the top and the sow pair at the bottom. That way sow pheromones will not fall downwards onto the boys. You must still be very careful and ensure you never handle the girls first as you could transfer girly smells to the boys.

Oh yeh 5ft isn't enough for boars is it sorry. Ok boys first. And also handle the dominant piggy first too right? That's going to be a bit of a nightmare, doable but daunting

 

[Wiebke]

The pellets don't have alfalfa in them thankfully, just Timothy. After birth do I give unlimited pellets alongside the alfalfa or just 1 tablespoon per pig like normal?

Also I don't know about over feed. I'm having to refill hay 3-4 times a day now it used to be just twice.

After birth and during the nursing period you can feed unlimited pellets in addition to the alfalfa but I would never put too many out at once; rather clean the bowl and refill regularly. You will find that babies love to sit in a pellet bowl and use it as a toilet! The video diary does make a useful guide for these little practical things.

 

[Engel]

After birth and during the nursing period you can feed unlimited pellets in addition to the alfalfa but I would never put too many out at once; rather clean the bowl and refill regularly. You will find that babies love to sit in a pellet bowl and use it as a toilet! The video diary does make a useful guide for these little practical things.

Haha bless 'them. I'll have a look through the diary. So it's a case of little and often in regards to pellets?

 

[Wiebke]

Oh yeh 5ft isn't enough for boars is it sorry. Ok boys first. And also handle the dominant piggy first too right? That's going to be a bit of a nightmare, doable but daunting

You need to handle the dominant boy first only if there is an issue; mostly with teenagers. What you will need to do is look after your boars before you interact with any sows in order to minimise the boys getting upset about sow pheromones; again, this is worst during teenage.

 

[Wiebke]

Haha bless 'them. I'll have a look through the diary. So it's a case of little and often in regards to pellets?

Yes, you want to refill about 3 times a day and/or offer some mushed pellets additionally as they are easier to eat for the little ones at first. I prefer to offer both during the first couple of weeks.

 

[Engel]

Yes, you want to refill about 3 times a day and/or offer some mushed pellets additionally as they are easier to eat for the little ones at first. I prefer to offer both during the first couple of weeks.

I was thinking of offering both mushed and solid. That's ok and to be expected really considering.

You need to handle the dominant boy first only if there is an issue; mostly with teenagers. What you will need to do is look after your boars before you interact with any sows in order to minimise the boys getting upset about sow pheromones; again, this is worst during teenage.

Ah ok. I thought it was regardless of age.

Thanks for your help btw. I really appreciate it

 

[Wiebke]

I was thinking of offering both mushed and solid. That's ok and to be expected really considering.


Ah ok. I thought it was regardless of age.

Thanks for your help btw. I really appreciate it

It is regardless of age as a principle. In practice however there are boys and sows that are not at all fussed about it and others that cause a big fuss, especially during the times when their leadership is not yet fully established, in question or when they are leading by default rather and are insecure in themselves; or when the hormones are through the roof. You have to go along with what you are dealing with.

 

[Engel]

I've baby proofed the cages. I'll add a few photos of Oreos cage. Is there anything else I need to add or change to make it more suitable for babies?


I've added lots of soft hay in her hides to give her something more comfortable to lie down on as she's getting bigger. She can also eat it. So a win win situation for her.

I've also ordered some alfalfa so that should be here in the next day or two

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

Just make sure that the babies cannot squeeze through the grids and get their head stuck as they grow quickly.

 

[Engel]

Hi!

Just make sure that the babies cannot squeeze through the grids and get their head stuck as they grow quickly.

I've meshed the grids with 13mm mesh. You can't really see it on those pics so here's a better one from when she still had her hay bag which I've since removed as she started trying to get into it and I was worried she'd get stuck.

 

[Wiebke]

I've meshed the grids with 13mm mesh. You can't really see it on those pics so here's a better one from when she still had her hay bag which I've since removed as she started trying to get into it and I was worried she'd get stuck.
View attachment 158231

Thanks! That is great! They should have outgrown the mesh by about 4-6 weeks, depending on their birth size.

 

[Engel]

Thanks! That is great! They should have outgrown the mesh by about 4-6 weeks, depending on their birth size.

Ah ok.

Silly question but how big do pigs get? Like length wise. I'm wondering if Oreos gotten to her max length. She's 10-11 inches in length. She surely can't get much bigger? Can she?

In comparison Chunk is only 8-9 inches

 

[Wiebke]

Individual size can vary a lot. my Pioden covers my whole forearm while Begw is not a lot more than a handful - and they are both fully grown adults. How old are yours?

 

[Engel]

Individual size can vary a lot. my Pioden covers my whole forearm while Begw is not a lot more than a handful - and they are both fully grown adults. How old are yours?

They're meant to be around 12 weeks old? To me that doesn't seem right?

 

[Wiebke]

They're meant to be around 12 weeks old? To me that doesn't seem right?

What is their weight, please? Weight is much more telling than size. They sound however on the larger size for 3 months.

 

[Engel]

What is their weight, please? Weight is much more telling than size. They sound however on the larger size for 3 months.

Just weighed them now for you.
Oreo is 732g
Chunk is 466g

I know they are going to get heavier as they grow outwards.

For comparison; When they came to me 2-3 weeks ago here's what their weights were

Oreo was 581g
Chink was 335g

ive only been feeding them 1 tablespoon of science selective grain free pellets. 1 cup of veggies (romaine lettuce, coriander, cucumber, bell pepper and celery. For a treat they get a bit of kale, a piece no bigger than their heads, or a green bean or 2. Once a week they've had a carrot top). As well us unlimited hay (mix of Timothy and meadow).

 

[Engel]

What is their weight, please? Weight is much more telling than size. They sound however on the larger size for 3 months.

Also a few weeks back you mentioned that they were on the lower side of the average weight for their age.

That is another 4-6 weeks to go; so it is a little bit early for showing, frankly.
Most sows have their first season between 4-6 weeks of age; and your piggies' weights are in the lower half of the normal weight range and not in the upper for their age. Concentrate on giving them a happy, active and enriched life on a food diet in the meantime.
Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

If they are now in the upper end, could that simply be down to diet as they were on something so bad before? I'm not sure whether them going from lower end to upper end in the space of a few weeks is a good thing or not?

I put their diet in the previous post so you can see if there's anything that needs changing. Compared to where they came from they must be thinking they're in heaven and eating like Kings and Queens

 

[Wiebke]

Also a few weeks back you mentioned that they were on the lower side of the average weight for their age.



If they are now in the upper end, could that simply be down to diet as they were on something so bad before? I'm not sure whether them going from lower end to upper end in the space of a few weeks is a good thing or not?

I put their diet in the previous post so you can see if there's anything that needs changing. Compared to where they came from they must be thinking they're in heaven and eating like Kings and Queens

The weight gain is making great strides indeed. Please weigh once weekly, ideally on the same day for the rest of the life; at the same time to you do a body check. This helps you spot slowly developing health issues early on when they can be tackled more easily before they turn into an emergency trip/operation.

From their weight they are within their age bracket.

Measuring the size of a piggy is much more tricky as the body structure differs depending on the breed - some are more stocky and some are naturally more lanky. Others are wedge-shaped. It can also differ whether they are sitting tight or are sprawled out. Long-haired piggies look bigger than they are. The weight gives you a much better idea where they stand as it is much easier to compare.

Your are very likely feeling like they have found Heaven on Earth. Let's hope they have another few weeks on good care with your before giving birth - the longer they do, the greater the chance of a problem free birth with well developed babies.

 

[Engel]

The weight gain is making great strides indeed. Please weigh once weekly, ideally on the same day for the rest of the life; at the same time to you do a body check. This helps you spot slowly developing health issues early on when they can be tackled more easily before they turn into an emergency trip/operation.

From their weight they are within their age bracket.

Measuring the size of a piggy is much more tricky as the body structure differs depending on the breed - some are more stocky and some are naturally more lanky. Others are wedge-shaped. It can also differ whether they are sitting tight or are sprawled out. Long-haired piggies look bigger than they are. The weight gives you a much better idea where they stand as it is much easier to compare.

Your are very likely feeling like they have found Heaven on Earth. Let's hope they have another few weeks on good care with your before giving birth - the longer they do, the greater the chance of a problem free birth with well developed babies.

Are they putting on weight too fast or is this about right for this period of their lives? I normally weigh on Saturday when I clean them out as they're in the carrier anyway so less stress for them.

Ah ok thats fair enough.

Let's hope so. Question though, as I assume Oreos pregnancy is due to inbreeding, what's the likelihood that the babies will have problems?

 

[Engel]

@Wiebke I've spot cleaned Oreos cage and spent some time with her. LOTS of movement now, it doesn't stop! When I placed my hand on her I think I can feel the actual babies.

I think we're fast approaching the time of meeting the pups, reason being is she is now breathing a tad faster as if they're pushing on the organs. She still has a healthy appetite and is drinking and toileting normal. She was also popcorning last night. With how big she is and how fed up she must now feel I'm surprised she's managed to get the energy

Alfalfa hay had arrived today so I've given her a handful. It's the oxbow one, lovely and green and smells nice. Expensive though for the size bag but totally worth it for that quality (hardly any dust too)

I've also go some critical care and some 1ml syringes too as well as the emergency vet number written down close by just in case something happens.

Are there any signs of labor at all? Other than being uncomfortable, squatting stance and contractions?

I've got a thermometer in my room to ensure my room stays between 20-25°C as my room has a tendency to drop Cold

 

[Engel]

I've read feeding raspberry leaves during the end of the pregnancy? Is this true? Is there any evidence of this?

 

[Engel]

Right @Wiebke I popped Oreo on the scales today as I found that I logged her weight last Friday not Saturday so as it's been a week and the same time of night I thought I'd share this week / last week and the gain so you can see how it's going, even of everything is fine.

Anyway, last Friday she weighed 698g and had gained 53g from the week prior.

Tonight she's weighed in at 836g! She's gained ~138g in a week! (I did actually double check as that's huge gain to me)

She's lying down more now, but tbh her tum is almost touching the ground when she walks anyway. Shes currently lay in a hay pile while eating the hay. Still popcorning and doing zoomies but not as much. Really stuffing her face now. You can see movement from a far now too.

In your experience, how far along do you think she is? Or rather how long left she has to go. I've looked on the calendar and she could be roughly 55 days into pregnancy.

@Piggies&buns @Siikibam feel free to add your thoughts too

 

[Wiebke]

Right @Wiebke I popped Oreo on the scales today as I found that I logged her weight last Friday not Saturday so as it's been a week and the same time of night I thought I'd share this week / last week and the gain so you can see how it's going, even of everything is fine.

Anyway, last Friday she weighed 698g and had gained 53g from the week prior.

Tonight she's weighed in at 836g! She's gained ~138g in a week! (I did actually double check as that's huge gain to me)

She's lying down more now, but tbh her tum is almost touching the ground when she walks anyway. Shes currently lay in a hay pile while eating the hay. Still popcorning and doing zoomies but not as much. Really stuffing her face now. You can see movement from a far now too.

In your experience, how far along do you think she is? Or rather how long left she has to go. I've looked on the calendar and she could be roughly 55 days into pregnancy.

@Piggies&buns @Siikibam feel free to add your thoughts too

I am very sorry but I have thrown my last crystal ball into the chimney some time ago in frustration - and that is the only way I could answer your question. Since a first time litter can vary between 1-6 pups with the according differences in weight gain and I have no chance at examining your girl, your guess is basically as good as mine. Please keep in mind that in a pregnancy the weight gain is not even; it is exponential in the last 2-3 weeks so unless you can see a vet re. potential pregnancy (or not), all you can do is sit it out; as hard as it is.

Unfortunately I can also not reach through the screen nor do I have x-ray glasses or a laser view... We get asked the same question in so many different ways from owners desperately wanting to know but it is one of the areas where advising remotely really has got its limits.

 

[Siikibam]

I’ve never had experience of piggy pregnancies so can’t advise you. But most are told to sit it out. Unfortunately patience is the only thing you can practise during this period.