Enlarged heart.

[jess496]

I had to put my guinea pig Teddy to sleep last Friday on October 31st. It was absolutely heartbreaking- he was the best boy and such a character, a huge part of my life.

He’s the one I’ve posted about before with the issues with his penis. He suffered from a prolapse but I was able to help him long-term by gently putting it back in without surgery and the vet was happy for me to manage it that way.

On X-ray last Friday, it was discovered that he had an enlarged heart and his lungs were pushing up against his spine, leaving no room for him to breathe properly. The vet wasn’t an exotic specialist but she was very knowledgeable and acted quickly-she was the only one available in the emergency. She wasn’t completely sure but she thought there might also be a mass near his heart. After doing some research, I wonder if what she saw could have actually been part of his enlarged heart as it was so big.

What I wanted to ask is — has anyone ever picked up on a heart condition in their guinea pig early on and if so, how long did they live afterward?.
Since around March, Teddy had been making strange noises on and off but they stopped for a while, so I didn’t think much of it. I feel terrible now because if I’d caught it earlier 7 months ago then he could have had another couple of years. I’ve read stories of guinea pigs living two extra years after diagnosis and it makes me feel awful.

There were signs — the weight loss, for example — though he did put it back on when I started feeding him oats thinking he was just too active as he was out for hours everyday. I even mentioned the weight loss to the vet but they didn’t seem too concerned. I also emailed about how he kept stopping to rest which was unusual for him but nothing was said unless the receptionist did not show the vet my email is my guess because at the same time flea treatment was being discussed alot so it was probably missed. Everyone told me it was just his age (he was 5) but I knew something wasn’t right and I regret not pushing harder. He even saw the exotic vet in early October and still nothing was picked up. I should have mentioned the noises but they’d stopped and he seemed back to normal recently even running around again like normal. I was so relieved… but I was wrong.

I feel like I let him down because his life could have been longer.
When it came to the end, I had to let him go because he was struggling to breathe. Part of me wonders if I should have taken him home with heart meds or let him pass peacefully at home instead of at the vet’s where he might have been scared. After they gave him oxygen, he seemed worse and he always just wanted to be with me.

I held him when they gave the first sedation injection, but it didn’t fully work because she doesn't give inject under the muscle like my exotic vet does so they had to give him gas before the final injection while I held him. The whole process was awful. Even when sedated, he tried to move- it broke my heart. He must have been trying to stay with me. It was so sad.

 

[Wiebke]

I had to put my guinea pig Teddy to sleep last Friday on October 31st. It was absolutely heartbreaking- he was the best boy and such a character, a huge part of my life.

He’s the one I’ve posted about before with the issues with his penis. He suffered from a prolapse but I was able to help him long-term by gently putting it back in without surgery and the vet was happy for me to manage it that way.

On X-ray last Friday, it was discovered that he had an enlarged heart and his lungs were pushing up against his spine, leaving no room for him to breathe properly. The vet wasn’t an exotic specialist but she was very knowledgeable and acted quickly-she was the only one available in the emergency. She wasn’t completely sure but she thought there might also be a mass near his heart. After doing some research, I wonder if what she saw could have actually been part of his enlarged heart as it was so big.

What I wanted to ask is — has anyone ever picked up on a heart condition in their guinea pig early on and if so, how long did they live afterward?.
Since around March, Teddy had been making strange noises on and off but they stopped for a while, so I didn’t think much of it. I feel terrible now because if I’d caught it earlier 7 months ago then he could have had another couple of years. I’ve read stories of guinea pigs living two extra years after diagnosis and it makes me feel awful.

There were signs — the weight loss, for example — though he did put it back on when I started feeding him oats thinking he was just too active as he was out for hours everyday. I even mentioned the weight loss to the vet but they didn’t seem too concerned. I also emailed about how he kept stopping to rest which was unusual for him but nothing was said unless the receptionist did not show the vet my email is my guess because at the same time flea treatment was being discussed alot so it was probably missed. Everyone told me it was just his age (he was 5) but I knew something wasn’t right and I regret not pushing harder. He even saw the exotic vet in early October and still nothing was picked up. I should have mentioned the noises but they’d stopped and he seemed back to normal recently even running around again like normal. I was so relieved… but I was wrong.

I feel like I let him down because his life could have been longer.
When it came to the end, I had to let him go because he was struggling to breathe. Part of me wonders if I should have taken him home with heart meds or let him pass peacefully at home instead of at the vet’s where he might have been scared. After they gave him oxygen, he seemed worse and he always just wanted to be with me.

I held him when they gave the first sedation injection, but it didn’t fully work because she doesn't give inject under the muscle like my exotic vet does so they had to give him gas before the final injection while I held him. The whole process was awful. Even when sedated, he tried to move- it broke my heart. He must have been trying to stay with me. It was so sad.

BIG HUGS

It is very normal to have strong feelings of guilt, failure or intense soul-searching/overthinking in the wake of a death; this is usually worse after a sudden death or a traumatic experience. As humans we are wired to reflect everything back to ourselves.

These feelings are very often not an expression of an actual mistake or misdiagnosis but how deeply we care and are part of the processing.

In your case on the factual side: Your vet's recommendation to pts/euthanise was based on your piggy's inability to breathe properly because of a mechanical obstruction (the heart pushing into the lungs. So whatever the cause, it would not have made any difference to that decision.
We have had piggies with quite massively enlarged hearts before but it has never come with the lungs being pushed against the spine and unable to expand. This in my very personal opinion as a not formally medically trained long term owner and forum moderator who can only go by collective and personal experience is arguing strongly for an internal, inoperable growth (tumour) in the runaway stage pushing on the heart, which in turn was pushing on the lungs. You have absolutely done the right thing and have saved Teddy from a very nasty and unpleasant way of dying. Any heart medication wouldn't have been able to kick in quickly enough.

Please try to concentrate on you having have spared Teddy any further unnecessary suffering and you having made him the most loving but equally most heartbreaking gift that we owners can make. He is now well, healthy and back in his prime at the Bridge - and that is what counts. We can sadly never choose when, und which circumstances and what from the end comes; all we can do is give our piggies as many happy todays in good care while they are with us - this is how piggies measure their lives by.

For more information on the nasty mind loops that can come with the grieving process and inspiration for what you can do for yourself, you may find our Grieving guide helpful: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
If you find that you cannot get out of that mind trap to the degree that it interferes with your sleep and daily life, please contact the (UK only) free pet per bereavement service platforms of the Blue Cross.

Be kind with yourself and look after yourself in the coming days.

 

[jess496]

BIG HUGS

It is very normal to have strong feelings of guilt, failure or intense soul-searching/overthinking in the wake of a death; this is usually worse after a sudden death or a traumatic experience. As humans we are wired to reflect everything back to ourselves.

These feelings are very often not an expression of an actual mistake or misdiagnosis but how deeply we care and are part of the processing.

In your case on the factual side: Your vet's recommendation to pts/euthanise was based on your piggy's inability to breathe properly because of a mechanical obstruction (the heart pushing into the lungs. So whatever the cause, it would not have made any difference to that decision.
We have had piggies with quite massively enlarged hearts before but it has never come with the lungs being pushed against the spine and unable to expand. This in my very personal opinion as a not formally medically trained long term owner and forum moderator who can only go by collective and personal experience is arguing strongly for an internal, inoperable growth (tumour) in the runaway stage pushing on the heart, which in turn was pushing on the lungs. You have absolutely done the right thing and have saved Teddy from a very nasty and unpleasant way of dying. Any heart medication wouldn't have been able to kick in quickly enough.

Please try to concentrate on you having have spared Teddy any further unnecessary suffering and you having made him the most loving but equally most heartbreaking gift that we owners can make. He is now well, healthy and back in his prime at the Bridge - and that is what counts. We can sadly never choose when, und which circumstances and what from the end comes; all we can do is give our piggies as many happy todays in good care while they are with us - this is how piggies measure their lives by.

For more information on the nasty mind loops that can come with the grieving process and inspiration for what you can do for yourself, you may find our Grieving guide helpful: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
If you find that you cannot get out of that mind trap to the degree that it interferes with your sleep and daily life, please contact the (UK only) free pet per bereavement service platforms of the Blue Cross.

Be kind with yourself and look after yourself in the coming days.

The vet showed us the X-ray trying to explain that the lungs were pushing his spine that he had no room to breathe that basically there was no room for his lungs because whatever it was it was taking up the space in his chest but I'm not 100% sure if it was a mass or whether it was because that the heart was just so big.
I'm just wondering if it started around March when I first heard the noises then how come he managed to last 7 months with something like that If it was so bad?.
If he was on medication earlier then maybe it wouldn't have got that bad because the meds control the issues. I was going to ask for the X-ray on email but I didn't want the vets to feel like I didn't trust them but I have asked them some questions last night but waiting on a reply.
Maybe when I go in to pick up his ashes I'll see if there's an exotic vet for second opinion just to confirm that there was definitely a mass then maybe I'll start to accept that I couldn't have helped him. Its a shame that I couldn't have eased his symptoms because he must have been struggling to breathe, poor boy.

 

[jess496]

BIG HUGS

It is very normal to have strong feelings of guilt, failure or intense soul-searching/overthinking in the wake of a death; this is usually worse after a sudden death or a traumatic experience. As humans we are wired to reflect everything back to ourselves.

These feelings are very often not an expression of an actual mistake or misdiagnosis but how deeply we care and are part of the processing.

In your case on the factual side: Your vet's recommendation to pts/euthanise was based on your piggy's inability to breathe properly because of a mechanical obstruction (the heart pushing into the lungs. So whatever the cause, it would not have made any difference to that decision.
We have had piggies with quite massively enlarged hearts before but it has never come with the lungs being pushed against the spine and unable to expand. This in my very personal opinion as a not formally medically trained long term owner and forum moderator who can only go by collective and personal experience is arguing strongly for an internal, inoperable growth (tumour) in the runaway stage pushing on the heart, which in turn was pushing on the lungs. You have absolutely done the right thing and have saved Teddy from a very nasty and unpleasant way of dying. Any heart medication wouldn't have been able to kick in quickly enough.

Please try to concentrate on you having have spared Teddy any further unnecessary suffering and you having made him the most loving but equally most heartbreaking gift that we owners can make. He is now well, healthy and back in his prime at the Bridge - and that is what counts. We can sadly never choose when, und which circumstances and what from the end comes; all we can do is give our piggies as many happy todays in good care while they are with us - this is how piggies measure their lives by.

For more information on the nasty mind loops that can come with the grieving process and inspiration for what you can do for yourself, you may find our Grieving guide helpful: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
If you find that you cannot get out of that mind trap to the degree that it interferes with your sleep and daily life, please contact the (UK only) free pet per bereavement service platforms of the Blue Cross.

Be kind with yourself and look after yourself in the coming days.

I've just spoken to my mother. I made a mistake it wasn't actually the lungs that were pushing spine, it was the windpipe that was pushed towards spine that's why he can't breathe.

 

[Wiebke]

I've just spoken to my mother. I made a mistake it wasn't actually the lungs that were pushing spine, it was the windpipe that was pushed towards spine that's why he can't breathe.

OK.

That could be possible as the heart in guinea pigs is located more centrally than in humans and the trachea reaches comparatively lower and doesn't branch as much above the lungs as human bronchia do; it happens much closer to the heart than in humans.
The same could also happen if a tumor is pushing the heart up between the lungs, especially an already enlarged heart.

So your vet is still right and you are still overthinking. It doesn't make any difference to the decision you have had to sadly make. You have still made the right choice and your heart is still in the right place.

I hope that this helps you? Please seek trained support if you find yourself unable to let it go.

 

[Eriathwen]

If it makes you feel any better, the veterinary text book I mainly refer to (Ferrets, Rabbits, and Rodents: Clinical Medicine and Surgery) states that most guinea pigs with most heart disease symptoms, including enlarged hearts as far as I'm aware, on average live 3-6 months post diagnosis, there is no curative treatment, just support. Discovering your piggies issue earlier would have had no effect on how long they lived, sadly. As with anything there are outliers, I had one with an enlarged heart, calcified thymus and lung tumour live 2.5 years for example but this was with extremely intensive care and support, but equally I've had one drop dead at 1 year old completely without symptoms to a heart issue that was only discovered during a post mortem. It's all just a genetic roll of the dice that the vast majority of piggies don't get a good roll on.

I'm very sorry for your loss, you did the absolute best thing for your little guy.

 

[jess496]

If it makes you feel any better, the veterinary text book I mainly refer to (Ferrets, Rabbits, and Rodents: Clinical Medicine and Surgery) states that most guinea pigs with most heart disease symptoms, including enlarged hearts as far as I'm aware, on average live 3-6 months post diagnosis, there is no curative treatment, just support. Discovering your piggies issue earlier would have had no effect on how long they lived, sadly. As with anything there are outliers, I had one with an enlarged heart, calcified thymus and lung tumour live 2.5 years for example but this was with extremely intensive care and support, but equally I've had one drop dead at 1 year old completely without symptoms to a heart issue that was only discovered during a post mortem. It's all just a genetic roll of the dice that the vast majority of piggies don't get a good roll on.

I'm very sorry for your loss, you did the absolute best thing for your little guy.

I understand that there is no cure for it but if it was caught early then the medication would have given him extra time and your guinea pig actually lived extra 2.5 years with tumour on top of heart condition so that proves I could have given my boy extra time if I had done something about it earlier & told the vet about the noises because I bet if the vet had listened to it, he would have known it was the heart then did an x-ray months ago. I feel very annoyed with myself. He had lots of signs yet I was too late. Yeah but your 1 year old wasn't on medication so that's why he/she passed.
Your guinea pig who lived extra 2.5 years is because you did something about it but I didn't

 

[Eriathwen]

I understand that there is no cure for it but if it was caught early then the medication would have given him extra time and your guinea pig actually lived extra 2.5 years with tumour on top of heart condition so that proves I could have given my boy extra time if I had done something about it earlier & told the vet about the noises because I bet if the vet had listened to it, he would have known it was the heart then did an x-ray months ago. I feel very annoyed with myself. He had lots of signs yet I was too late. Yeah but your 1 year old wasn't on medication so that's why he/she passed.
Your guinea pig who lived extra 2.5 years is because you did something about it but I didn't

I totally understand the stage of grief you're in currently, I've been there. The one that lived 2.5 years wasn't on any heart medication or diuretics, she got pain relief, gut motility meds and loads of failed diagnostics as she was very deformed and the lung tumour blocked the view of what was truly going on, along with an awful lot of syringe feeds as she was struggling to swallow, we were working on an educated guess she had cushings so were way off the mark. We only knew her heart was an issue once she was already gone. The conclusion after her death and post mortem was there was absolutely nothing we could have done that could have made any difference, she lived as long as she did through sheer luck.

Please do believe us that it wouldn't have made a difference if you found it earlier, the timeline in the veterinary textbooks of 3-6 months is after diagnosis and the start of supportive care. The vast majority even with immediate treatment, do not live very long sadly, there is just too much strain on their body to cope long term.

Losing them is hard and there are always lots of "what ifs", but I mainly care for medical and special needs piggies, and I assure you, heart issues and kidney issues are essentially game over, veterinary medicine just hasn't reached a point where we can prolong their life with medication yet. You really did do everything you could have done, no earlier intervention would have changed his life span

 

[jess496]

I totally understand the stage of grief you're in currently, I've been there. The one that lived 2.5 years wasn't on any heart medication or diuretics, she got pain relief, gut motility meds and loads of failed diagnostics as she was very deformed and the lung tumour blocked the view of what was truly going on, along with an awful lot of syringe feeds as she was struggling to swallow, we were working on an educated guess she had cushings so were way off the mark. We only knew her heart was an issue once she was already gone. The conclusion after her death and post mortem was there was absolutely nothing we could have done that could have made any difference, she lived as long as she did through sheer luck.

Please do believe us that it wouldn't have made a difference if you found it earlier, the timeline in the veterinary textbooks of 3-6 months is after diagnosis and the start of supportive care. The vast majority even with immediate treatment, do not live very long sadly, there is just too much strain on their body to cope long term.

Losing them is hard and there are always lots of "what ifs", but I mainly care for medical and special needs piggies, and I assure you, heart issues and kidney issues are essentially game over, veterinary medicine just hasn't reached a point where we can prolong their life with medication yet. You really did do everything you could have done, no earlier intervention would have changed his life span

I appreciate you taking the time to reply especially to write a long message, it does make me feel better to talk to someone about this. Nights are the worst because even when it's very late I let Teddy run around on floor when he asks to come out, it doesn't feel right without him as I usually lay on floor with him right now.
I think I'm struggling to accept that it wouldn't have made a difference because I've read a few comments on a facebook post on Guinea pig group that a girl's guinea pig has just been diagnosed with an enlarged heart yesterday and there are 3 people who have commented saying their guinea pigs have lived 2-3 years on heart medication that's why I'm struggling to accept that it wouldn't have made a difference.
I also researched it and apparently guinea pigs can live 2-3 years on medication.
It makes you feel like crap knowing about this information when it's too late.
The guinea pigs are lucky to have you, I don't think I could do what you do because I don't deal with it very well when they pass.

 

[Eriathwen]

I appreciate you taking the time to reply especially to write a long message, it does make me feel better to talk to someone about this. Nights are the worst because even when it's very late I let Teddy run around on floor when he asks to come out, it doesn't feel right without him as I usually lay on floor with him right now.
I think I'm struggling to accept that it wouldn't have made a difference because I've read a few comments on a facebook post on Guinea pig group that a girl's guinea pig has just been diagnosed with an enlarged heart yesterday and there are 3 people who have commented saying their guinea pigs have lived 2-3 years on heart medication that's why I'm struggling to accept that it wouldn't have made a difference.
I also researched it and apparently guinea pigs can live 2-3 years on medication.
It makes you feel like crap knowing about this information when it's too late.
The guinea pigs are lucky to have you, I don't think I could do what you do because I don't deal with it very well when they pass.

There's definitely outliers who can live longer as with almost everything, but we don't know what factors in to that happening unfortunately. I was an admin for Facebooks largest guinea pig group before it got shut down a year ago, for about 8 years or so, and in the hundreds of heart issue piggies we helped people with, including other admins piggies who saw specialists and saw the very best vets in their country, the only one I had ever heard of living over 6 months, was my own, until very recently, which just shows how uncommon it is, unfortunately.

I must admit I quite often lay awake at night too and look at all the little caskets of ashes and replay everyone's final days and second guess everything I did. It's hard and it absolutely sucks, but what I will say is it really shows how much you loved him and what a brilliant owner you were, because you clearly care so much to be still wondering what you could have done differently. Finding blame gives us something to focus on, blaming ourselves gives us an outlet for the pain, please try to be kind to yourself because above everything else, your piggy loved you and they wouldn't want you to be suffering like you are.

The best way I have found to cope is knowing that I may not be able to use the information I've learned after a piggies passing to help them, but I can use it to help the next, or other people's.

 

[jess496]

There's definitely outliers who can live longer as with almost everything, but we don't know what factors in to that happening unfortunately. I was an admin for Facebooks largest guinea pig group before it got shut down a year ago, for about 8 years or so, and in the hundreds of heart issue piggies we helped people with, including other admins piggies who saw specialists and saw the very best vets in their country, the only one I had ever heard of living over 6 months, was my own, until very recently, which just shows how uncommon it is, unfortunately.

I must admit I quite often lay awake at night too and look at all the little caskets of ashes and replay everyone's final days and second guess everything I did. It's hard and it absolutely sucks, but what I will say is it really shows how much you loved him and what a brilliant owner you were, because you clearly care so much to be still wondering what you could have done differently. Finding blame gives us something to focus on, blaming ourselves gives us an outlet for the pain, please try to be kind to yourself because above everything else, your piggy loved you and they wouldn't want you to be suffering like you are.

The best way I have found to cope is knowing that I may not be able to use the information I've learned after a piggies passing to help them, but I can use it to help the next, or other people's.

There's definitely outliers who can live longer as with almost everything, but we don't know what factors in to that happening unfortunately. I was an admin for Facebooks largest guinea pig group before it got shut down a year ago, for about 8 years or so, and in the hundreds of heart issue piggies we helped people with, including other admins piggies who saw specialists and saw the very best vets in their country, the only one I had ever heard of living over 6 months, was my own, until very recently, which just shows how uncommon it is, unfortunately.

I must admit I quite often lay awake at night too and look at all the little caskets of ashes and replay everyone's final days and second guess everything I did. It's hard and it absolutely sucks, but what I will say is it really shows how much you loved him and what a brilliant owner you were, because you clearly care so much to be still wondering what you could have done differently. Finding blame gives us something to focus on, blaming ourselves gives us an outlet for the pain, please try to be kind to yourself because above everything else, your piggy loved you and they wouldn't want you to be suffering like you are.

The best way I have found to cope is knowing that I may not be able to use the information I've learned after a piggies passing to help them, but I can use it to help the next, or other people's.

That's interesting to know, thankyou for telling me.
We are amazed that he lasted this long because where I got him from the woman was keeping over 100+ guinea pigs in a tiny shed and mixing them all so it was inbreeding. Teddy went through a few traumas in his life, he was such a tough little guy.
I have casket's in my bedroom where they are safe & close to me but it's quite sad to see. Nights are the worst for over thinking, it's why I don't sleep very well.
Thankyou for your help. I appreciate it.

 

[VickiA]

I am so very sorry for your loss. It is natural to question whether you could or should have picked up a heart issue earlier. The questioning of your own actions is a natural part of the grieving process. My own experience of piggies with heart conditions (I have had three of them over the years) is that despite all the support we could give them they did not last very long after diagnosis (I think the longest was probably about 9 months). What matters most is that you gave your piggy quality of life and that you spared him any suffering at the end. Go gently as you grieve.

 

[Wiebke]

HUGS

For all that it is worth, none of the three piggies of mine that were actually showing signs of heart problems or potential heart failure reacted to heart meds (piggies usually either do so instantly or not at all) but the heart piggies I lost in operations or otherwise were none of them showing symptoms.

Heart problems are still rather difficult to diagnose and often tricky to treat. Enlarged hearts are pretty much at the top when it comes to difficulty to treat in terms of hearts. A very few piggies can live longer with it but the vast majority just won't. Together with kidney issues and to an extent with liver issues, they are not yet successfully treatable.
Veterinary medicine has made huge advances in the last 15 years but there are still some organs and conditions that are very difficult to diagnose and that are not yet curable or responding well to any meds.

Whatever health issue you look at, there are always those 1-3 piggies out of hundreds or even thousands that buck the trend but you just cannot count on your piggy being in that tiny number; just to put things into a bit more of a perspective.
When you do your online research, you have to be very aware that the proportions of representation are not right. You will inevitably get the miracle cures and the lucky escapes plus all the horror stories - that is what people home in on after all. What you do not get is the vast bulk of normal outcomes because they are taken for granted and are not considered worth posting about.

You also have to be aware that to a smaller extent this also applies to our forum. We are often contacted as a place of last resort when standard treatment fails or a poster is unhappy with the medical they are receiving so complications are over-represented. We try to counter this with our one thread for one case rules so there is that bit more normality visible and with our long term owners able to relate their own 'normal' experience. We are also always happy when posters come back with positive and not just with negative outcomes for that reason.

What this means in reality in terms of enlarged hearts is that the majority will actually go unnoticed and undiagnosed because they are asymptomatic. Those that are found are found at different stages - very occasionally early on during an examination for another health issue but mostly in advanced stages that are generally incurable.

It is very tough come to terms with the fact that letting Teddy go was the right and the kindest thing you could do and that there was no other miraculous cure or treatment against the odds.
Teddy's heart was sadly not just a little enlarged; it was so big that it had already started to kill him without causing any visible symptoms until this very late stage. Even had it not pressed on the windpipe, he would not have lived for any significant amount of time longer, nor would any medication have worked at this stage.

The one thing that was not on the cards for you was much more time for you with Teddy, as desperate as you for that at this stage of your grieving.
That is unfortunately a tough thing to wrap your head around but it is necessary for you if you do not want to lose Teddy altogether because you are mired in your guilt and it hurts you too much to remember him. I ended in that particular mind trap with my old gentle Hafina who died in an emergency make or break eye removal op when her heart gave out and it took me a long time to make peace with that, even though she deserved to be remembered with love and great affection in the intervening years and we had unsuccessfully tried to resolve the issue medically beforehand, so we handn't done anything wrong. Eye removal ops with oldies are high risk; it was just that I wasn't braced for it.

If you are struggling really badly with your feelings of guilt/not being able to accept your loss and are stuck in the pernicious 'what if' mind loop, please seek trained support to talk it out with a trained volunteer.
Pet Loss Support

 

[jess496]

I am so very sorry for your loss. It is natural to question whether you could or should have picked up a heart issue earlier. The questioning of your own actions is a natural part of the grieving process. My own experience of piggies with heart conditions (I have had three of them over the years) is that despite all the support we could give them they did not last very long after diagnosis (I think the longest was probably about 9 months). What matters most is that you gave your piggy quality of life and that you spared him any suffering at the end. Go gently as you grieve.

Thankyou. I miss him so much, it's very quiet without him as he was the only one that liked to do lots of things and run around on floor, he had the most attention because he was such a baby even though he was an adult haha. Thankyou for sharing your experience with me

 

[jess496]

HUGS

For all that it is worth, none of the three piggies of mine that were actually showing signs of heart problems or potential heart failure reacted to heart meds (piggies usually either do so instantly or not at all) but the heart piggies I lost in operations or otherwise were none of them showing symptoms.

Heart problems are still rather difficult to diagnose and often tricky to treat. Enlarged hearts are pretty much at the top when it comes to difficulty to treat in terms of hearts. A very few piggies can live longer with it but the vast majority just won't. Together with kidney issues and to an extent with liver issues, they are not yet successfully treatable.
Veterinary medicine has made huge advances in the last 15 years but there are still some organs and conditions that are very difficult to diagnose and that are not yet curable or responding well to any meds.

Whatever health issue you look at, there are always those 1-3 piggies out of hundreds or even thousands that buck the trend but you just cannot count on your piggy being in that tiny number; just to put things into a bit more of a perspective.
When you do your online research, you have to be very aware that the proportions of representation are not right. You will inevitably get the miracle cures and the lucky escapes plus all the horror stories - that is what people home in on after all. What you do not get is the vast bulk of normal outcomes because they are taken for granted and are not considered worth posting about.

You also have to be aware that to a smaller extent this also applies to our forum. We are often contacted as a place of last resort when standard treatment fails or a poster is unhappy with the medical they are receiving so complications are over-represented. We try to counter this with our one thread for one case rules so there is that bit more normality visible and with our long term owners able to relate their own 'normal' experience. We are also always happy when posters come back with positive and not just with negative outcomes for that reason.

What this means in reality in terms of enlarged hearts is that the majority will actually go unnoticed and undiagnosed because they are asymptomatic. Those that are found are found at different stages - very occasionally early on during an examination for another health issue but mostly in advanced stages that are generally incurable.

It is very tough come to terms with the fact that letting Teddy go was the right and the kindest thing you could do and that there was no other miraculous cure or treatment against the odds.
Teddy's heart was sadly not just a little enlarged; it was so big that it had already started to kill him without causing any visible symptoms until this very late stage. Even had it not pressed on the windpipe, he would not have lived for any significant amount of time longer, nor would any medication have worked at this stage.

The one thing that was not on the cards for you was much more time for you with Teddy, as desperate as you for that at this stage of your grieving.
That is unfortunately a tough thing to wrap your head around but it is necessary for you if you do not want to lose Teddy altogether because you are mired in your guilt and it hurts you too much to remember him. I ended in that particular mind trap with my old gentle Hafina who died in an emergency make or break eye removal op when her heart gave out and it took me a long time to make peace with that, even though she deserved to be remembered with love and great affection in the intervening years and we had unsuccessfully tried to resolve the issue medically beforehand, so we handn't done anything wrong. Eye removal ops with oldies are high risk; it was just that I wasn't braced for it.

If you are struggling really badly with your feelings of guilt/not being able to accept your loss and are stuck in the pernicious 'what if' mind loop, please seek trained support to talk it out with a trained volunteer.
Pet Loss Support

Thankyou for telling me your experience.
I guess it's because I feel that if he had received the help 7 months ago, he would have carried on for a long time on meds because he was such a tough little guy as he's had a few traumas in his life and he always survived so I just feel that if I had helped him earlier then he would still be here.
Unfortunately, there was lots of signs over the months before he got bad last Friday and if I had shown the vet the videos/recorded noises then the vet would have known what it was because I wasn't experienced to know about the heart but I was stupid not to show the vet because the noises had stopped & recently he was active again so I assumed that he was ok.
During late summer I had noticed he didn't want to come out of his cage for weeks as he usually wanted to come out everyday for hours without a fail and I just thought it was because he didn't like the heat but I realise now it was because he was sick but recently he wanted to come out for hours running about so I actually thought he was ok as he seemed back to normal even though I remember sometimes he was breathing fast but I just thought it was he was stressed over other guinea pigs or something. The breathing fast seem to happen on and off as it wasn't constant so I didn't think too much of it.
I do feel stupid for not doing more especially when I'm supposed to be very close to him and should have known that he needed help but maybe I was in denial

 

[Wiebke]

Thankyou for telling me your experience.
I guess it's because I feel that if he had received the help 7 months ago, he would have carried on for a long time on meds because he was such a tough little guy as he's had a few traumas in his life and he always survived so I just feel that if I had helped him earlier then he would still be here.
Unfortunately, there was lots of signs over the months before he got bad last Friday and if I had shown the vet the videos/recorded noises then the vet would have known what it was because I wasn't experienced to know about the heart but I was stupid not to show the vet because the noises had stopped & recently he was active again so I assumed that he was ok.
During late summer I had noticed he didn't want to come out of his cage for weeks as he usually wanted to come out everyday for hours without a fail and I just thought it was because he didn't like the heat but I realise now it was because he was sick but recently he wanted to come out for hours running about so I actually thought he was ok as he seemed back to normal even though I remember sometimes he was breathing fast but I just thought it was he was stressed over other guinea pigs or something. The breathing fast seem to happen on and off as it wasn't constant so I didn't think too much of it.
I do feel stupid for not doing more especially when I'm supposed to be very close to him and should have known that he needed help but maybe I was in denial

HUGS

Don't feel stupid for what you didn't and couldn't know. Hindsight is always such a great thing because we can see the way from where we stand. What we deal with in real life is treading a maze blindfolded. There is no map marked 'this way'; foresight can only ever be guesswork but never surety. You can always shoot yourself down with hindsight; only that using it this way doesn't help anybody, least of all Teddy's memory and your own mental health.

Please try and see it as a normal part of adult learning. We all make mistakes all the time and we all come up against things we cannot anticipate.
What counts is actually not so much the getting it wrong part but how constructively we deal with the getting up and going on part. Don't destroy yourself (and your memory of Teddy) over what you could have done but didn't because you didn't understand its significance; learn to spot the mistakes, don't make the same mistake again and go on to make other mistakes instead - and gradually grow with them as a human. We don't grow by never putting a foot wrong; we grow from our regrets, from learning from mistakes and we gradually become more understanding and empathetic of others.

Do you think I have learned all my piggy and human knowledge by getting it right first try? I have a nice box full of eternal regrets from learning a lot of things the hard way. But these regrets have become my inspiration to learn more, to understand more, to get more and more things right and incidentally help hundreds, thousands and evens tens of thousands of piggies by now to have a better life and to encourage their owners to learn for themselves and to become more confident and mature in themselves as well.

I live with terminal cancer and an inoperable brain tumour. In hindsight, the vague signs were there; but for me they were masked by a bad bout of Covid and then by the persistent vague Long Covid symptoms - until my left leg suddenly lost contact with my brain and I ended up in hospital with a broken hip and a brain tumour/stage 4 diagnosis.
I could sit and spend the rest of my life moaning about 'what ifs' and ' had I only' and putting myself down. Instead, I prefer to spend my life in a much more constructive way so whenever my cancer meds stop working, I can look back and be proud of what I have done with my life. I am not going to let hindsight shoot me down; I am using it to make myself live to best I can every single day so that in the end I have a fuller life in a shorter lifetime than had I not got notice of my mortality.
Life is quite literally about how we make use of what has the potential to either hamper or even destroy us or to become our motivation and a source of inner power.
I am still going through a grieving process for myself in parallel; but as long as I keep doing it in good way, I can balance myself out and continue to help others and hopefully outlive the last of my own piggies.

Anyway, I hope that this gives you some food for thought, even if it is an extreme experience. But most of our long term owners have had to find a way to deal with their repeated losses that allows them to go on and do it all over again and again. We've all been at the stupid bit, repeatedly; what you do with it next and in the future is the crucial bit.

Please be sad but try not to make yourself feel bad in any way you can; you do not deserve it, and neither does Teddy.

PS: Try to make use of some white background noise to make the silence less loud.

 

[jess496]

HUGS

Don't feel stupid for what you didn't and couldn't know. Hindsight is always such a great thing because we can see the way from where we stand. What we deal with in real life is treading a maze blindfolded. There is no map marked 'this way'; foresight can only ever be guesswork but never surety. You can always shoot yourself down with hindsight; only that using it this way doesn't help anybody, least of all Teddy's memory and your own mental health.

Please try and see it as a normal part of adult learning. We all make mistakes all the time and we all come up against things we cannot anticipate.
What counts is actually not so much the getting it wrong part but how constructively we deal with the getting up and going on part. Don't destroy yourself (and your memory of Teddy) over what you could have done but didn't because you didn't understand its significance; learn to spot the mistakes, don't make the same mistake again and go on to make other mistakes instead - and gradually grow with them as a human. We don't grow by never putting a foot wrong; we grow from our regrets, from learning from mistakes and we gradually become more understanding and empathetic of others.

Do you think I have learned all my piggy and human knowledge by getting it right first try? I have a nice box full of eternal regrets from learning a lot of things the hard way. But these regrets have become my inspiration to learn more, to understand more, to get more and more things right and incidentally help hundreds, thousands and evens tens of thousands of piggies by now to have a better life and to encourage their owners to learn for themselves and to become more confident and mature in themselves as well.

I live with terminal cancer and an inoperable brain tumour. In hindsight, the vague signs were there; but for me they were masked by a bad bout of Covid and then by the persistent vague Long Covid symptoms - until my left leg suddenly lost contact with my brain and I ended up in hospital with a broken hip and a brain tumour/stage 4 diagnosis.
I could sit and spend the rest of my life moaning about 'what ifs' and ' had I only' and putting myself down. Instead, I prefer to spend my life in a much more constructive way so whenever my cancer meds stop working, I can look back and be proud of what I have done with my life. I am not going to let hindsight shoot me down; I am using it to make myself live to best I can every single day so that in the end I have a fuller life in a shorter lifetime than had I not got notice of my mortality.
Life is quite literally about how we make use of what has the potential to either hamper or even destroy us or to become our motivation and a source of inner power.
I am still going through a grieving process for myself in parallel; but as long as I keep doing it in good way, I can balance myself out and continue to help others and hopefully outlive the last of my own piggies.

Anyway, I hope that this gives you some food for thought, even if it is an extreme experience. But most of our long term owners have had to find a way to deal with their repeated losses that allows them to go on and do it all over again and again. We've all been at the stupid bit; what you do with it next and in the future is the crucial bit.

My vet got back to me with a long email, they were very kind to say how much I care for my guinea pigs. I think some vets are very surprised by how much I care for them because I even have a book for them to make notes of their weight etc which not many people do and I had a vet home visit booked months ago because I was worried about stressing them out travelling so anyway I rushed upstairs to bring a blanket down so they are comfortable on table which out of nowhere the vet said "you are so nice to them" and that made me think alot. I really do care about my guinea pigs. They are all very spoilt and have a very huge cages each.
I don't think I will get any more guinea pigs because Teddy has stopped me getting more as he's too special to replace, I know we don't replace them but I mean I just can't imagine another one in Teddy's place & this sounds silly but Teddy always protected his territory, the cage and floor so I don't feel that it's right for another guinea pig to be in his space. Although I don't know what I'm going to do with his cage as I can't sell it and it won't be used- it was the first cage I built for my first two guinea pigs so it will be very hard to let it go. I thought about storing it elsewhere but I feel bad moving on and I don't know how I'd feel seeing it gone from my bedroom.
I'm very sorry about your diagnosis and can't imagine how you are feeling, thankyou for sharing that with me. I remember you from years ago when you supported me after my first guinea pig Alfie died and I haven't forgotten. I don't know you but you are amazing for helping people like me. I don't really seek support from people in real life as I'm someone that keeps to themselves and spends so much time with guinea pigs. I did struggle badly with Alfie's death that I actually cried everyday for over a year until I got so tired that I couldn't cry anymore, it really affected me because I really loved him and Teddy was actually his companion after Alfie's companion died. Teddy was my second favourite, I find the Rex/teddy breeds very loveable-for some reason they are very rare to find in my area so I got very lucky to find Teddy 2 hours away as the woman who had 100+ guinea pigs only had one Rex breed. I'm so glad I got him out of there because it was awful, he had a horrible wound on his cheek so he had an amazing life with me

 

[Wiebke]

My vet got back to me with a long email, they were very kind to say how much I care for my guinea pigs. I think some vets are very surprised by how much I care for them because I even have a book for them to make notes of their weight etc which not many people do and I had a vet home visit booked months ago because I was worried about stressing them out travelling so anyway I rushed upstairs to bring a blanket down so they are comfortable on table which out of nowhere the vet said "you are so nice to them" and that made me think alot. I really do care about my guinea pigs. They are all very spoilt and have a very huge cages each.
I don't think I will get any more guinea pigs because Teddy has stopped me getting more as he's too special to replace, I know we don't replace them but I mean I just can't imagine another one in Teddy's place & this sounds silly but Teddy always protected his territory, the cage and floor so I don't feel that it's right for another guinea pig to be in his space. Although I don't know what I'm going to do with his cage as I can't sell it and it won't be used- it was the first cage I built for my first two guinea pigs so it will be very hard to let it go. I thought about storing it elsewhere but I feel bad moving on and I don't know how I'd feel seeing it gone from my bedroom.
I'm very sorry about your diagnosis and can't imagine how you are feeling, thankyou for sharing that with me. I remember you from years ago when you supported me after my first guinea pig Alfie died and I haven't forgotten. I don't know you but you are amazing for helping people like me. I don't really seek support from people in real life as I'm someone that keeps to themselves and spends so much time with guinea pigs. I did struggle badly with Alfie's death that I actually cried everyday for over a year until I got so tired that I couldn't cry anymore, it really affected me because I really loved him and Teddy was actually his companion after Alfie's companion died. Teddy was my second favourite, I find the Rex/teddy breeds very loveable-for some reason they are very rare to find in my area so I got very lucky to find Teddy 2 hours away as the woman who had 100+ guinea pigs only had one Rex breed. I'm so glad I got him out of there because it was awful, he had a horrible wound on his cheek so he had an amazing life with me

Look after yourself and think about a way forward for you when you are ready. Love is not like a cistern that runs dry; it is like a river that will find new ways. When one door closes, others will open. It sounds trite but it is right. I had to find new ways to flow a few times but new channels opened up.

Be sad; Teddy was special and much loved - and he loved you. He and your others will always remain with you. He would not want to see you pulling yourself into shreds.

My special piggy Minx lived 20 years ago. Sometimes, I go and play with her in my head when I am stuck in a scanning machine. She can still make me smile with her antics today.

Be sad; but please do not put yourself down. Teddy couldn't have found a more loving and caring home that has given him so many happy days and the best of piggy lives. It is lovely of your vet to write that email since you have obviously cared so much.

Give yourself time to hurt and to heal. There is sadly no shortcut for that part. But you haven't failed him. He would not have lived for months more, whether you knew or not. Simple as. You just have the extra shock to deal with the loss at the same time, which is a lot to work through.

And thank you. Cancer is not stopping me being myself; it's making me even more so.