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Esther Is Not Well.

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archie_edith

archie_edith

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I took Esther to the vets today on an Emergency because she didn't look right. We Managed to get a urine stick test done which showed blood in the urine, and we did some radiographs that showed no stones and lungs and kidneys appear normal. Upon Exam, the doctors Noticed her normal two lower incisors, but two additional teeth infront and beside those incisors and were growing abnormally, she trimmed them, but didn't get all she wanted done as the gums started bleeding and the vet didn't want to cause any additional pain. So we have started Baytril ( Enrofloxacin) twice daily at 0.1 mL. and Metacam once daily for 3 days to help with discomfort. Does anyone have any thoughts? anything we could be missing? She is eating normally, still losing weight, went from 710 g to 700g in a week. Any Ideas or opinions are appreciated.
 
The blood in the urine is likely due to a urine infection (UTI) or bladder wall inflammation (cystitis). The baytril dose is very low for a guinea pig with urine issues and may not take care of any problems; it is more of a guessing game from your vet. You can give the metacam once daily or split up the dose for a twice daily medication if the appetite or weight is going down further, as guinea pigs have a very quick metabolism.

You could try to top her up with hand feeding in order to keep the weight up. https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

@furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary re. any dental advice.
 
Wiebke said:
The blood in the urine is likely due to a urine infection (UTI) or bladder wall inflammation (cystitis). The baytril dose is very low for a guinea pig with urine issues and may not take care of any problems; it is more of a guessing game from your vet. You can give the metacam once daily or split up the dose for a twice daily medication if the appetite or weight is going down further, as guinea pigs have a very quick metabolism.

You could try to top her up with hand feeding in order to keep the weight up. https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

@furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary re. any dental advice.
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So I am lucky to have a vet that encouraged me to seek advice from this site as well, So i told her what you suggested and she agrees that we should half the metacam and go to twice daily, as for the baytril she is thinking that the dose she chose is good to start as she said she is worried that her kidneys might be affected since she is 6 years old. So she suggested that we do this dose for 3 - 5 days then re asses to see if we are making a difference, and then increase the dose at that point if we are not seeing improvement. She said the dose she chose is right in the middle of the rec. dosage. When Esther got home, she was happy to eat a green pepper and a bit of carrot, but I am going to keep offering her extra hay and such- Do we think it is a good idea to buy some alfalfa hay to put some weight on her? or would that not be a help? do we have any ideas about the teeth at all? Should I be worried about the extra incisors?
 
I also forgot to mention her eyes are messed up! She has a cataract on one eye and they are red and inflamed, we are doing fucithalmic, but the vet did suggest that we could add ketolorac as well if they are not getting better.
 
I had some really good results from using Cystophan ( containsTryptophan, Hyaluronic Acid and Glucosamine) which my guinea pig savvy vet prescribed when my guinea pig had blood in their urine and was losing weight and had cystitis, very recently. He is now fully recovered and back to full health and weight, but we had quite a few weeks on Metacam, Baytril and Cystophan. After the initial period on Metacam and Baytril, he had Cystophan for 6 weeks and within a couple of days of starting Cystophan, I saw he started to pick up. I know someone else on the forum that went through a similar experience and had the same results using Cystease, a similar substance to Cystophan and her guinea pig has also now recovered.

As no stones have shown up, it is very likely it could be cystitis, which can be bacterial or interstitial (no infection) and your guinea pig could benefit from using the above. You could ask your vet's advice to see if they think it might be helpful in your case. If she is still losing weight, I would also hand feed her a supplement food such as Critical Care, to help her back to full strength. When guinea pigs feel unwell, they always give up on eating or do not eat as much, with weight loss. So, whilst she is getting better, it helps to give her all the nutrients, especially as Baytril can also have an effect on appetite. Also if she has had work done on her mouth, she may be still sore from that, so may not be eating as much as normal.

I hope everything goes well and Esther gets better soon.
 
Thanks for giving the background information; that is putting more sense into it. So your vet is obviously thinking that the traces of blood are more due to damaged kidneys rather than a bladder problem?

I am tagging @Pebble for you; she is our medications specialist. She may know alternative antibiotics that could be more suitable if that is asked for.

I have already tagged our dental specialist @furryfriends for you in my previous post, but as she is a very busy woman with running a sanctuary for sometimes very ill dental guinea pigs, it may take a bit of time for her to come onto the forum.
 
No the vet does not think that the kidneys are damaged but she said she did not want to put stress on the kidneys because of her age with a high dose of antibiotics.
 
It is not possible to advise on dosages without knowing
a) weight of pig
b) strength of the medication
c) recommended dose being prescribed in mg/kg

Baytril oral solution comes in 2 strengths - 10% and 2.5%.
In the UK most piggies are usually given 2.5% strength - it sounds like your vet may have given you 10% in which case the dose of 0.1ml is what would be expected for a 700g piggie.
 
The Baytril is 50 mg/mL pebble- as for the rec. dose I can get then when i go back to work tomorrow. I really appreciate all the advice that I am receiving from the members and staff, I apologize for not providing all the information, my brain went into Mom mode and started panicking without going into factual need to know information mode. I think I feel comfortable with the Baytril dose at this point in time. Today is only day two on antibiotics and I know I probably won't be seeing results yet, but I really feel she is doing better today, I'm not sure if it is the metacam or what but her attitude is good. When I saw those teeth it really freaked me out, and I have just been battling this eye infection for about two months and it keeps getting better and coming back, I think it might be time to swtich from fucithalmic to something else. thank you everyone.
 
Can't help on this, but I hope Esther gets better soon :nod:
 
Update of Esther: I weighed her today and she is down to 670 grams. I am shocked to be honest. Such a sad turn of events. To be honest- I really thought she was eating well. I am going to be doing syringe feeding now, my only concern is that I work 12 hours shifts- I can take her to work with me as I work at a cat and dog vet hospital, But I am worried that 1) it will stress her out too much, and 2) that Myrtle will be upset when Esther gets home, I could bring both of them with me I guess and do syringe feeding throughout my shift, what you you guys think? By the way- I think her eyes look a little better today, and her urine didn't looked blood tinged today. I am also thinking that I will stop the metacam today to make sure that is not the cause of weight loss.
 
Dose:
So you are putting 5mg (ie 0.1ml) into a 700g pig which equates to approx 7mg/kg.
BSAF has dose range for rodents at 5-10mg/kg so middle of the range as your vet said.
Is this an oral formulation or an injectable one?
It takes a minimum 48hrs before signs that the abx is working are visible when given orally.

Weight
She has lost approx 40g which in and of itself can be the difference between a full bladder and an empty one. Progressive slow weight loss however would be an issue so weigh her daily. What was her normal weight before she became poorly?
Syringe feeding doesn't hurt a poorly pig - you can add probiotics, extra Vit C etc to the mix
I would take both together and syringe feed during your shift. (20-30ml every 4 hours if she is not eating at all for herself.)

Please do not stop the metacam without discussing with your vet first. It is unlikely that metacam is causing the weight loss - she will need pain/anti-inflammatory relief otherwise she may stop eating altogether.
 
It is injectable, I was uneducated when she was healthier so I never got a weight on her. When I realized I was doing things wrong, I went out and purchased a scale immediately and the first weight i got on her was 710 g. I do try to weigh her when i see she has just had a big pee though. I just ordered some critical care from work so I can start doing that tomorrow. as for stopping the metacam you are right, I should talk to the vet first, I was going off a conversation with her where she suggested if appetite decreases to discontinue. But I will continue metacam until she is back in the office and we can discuss this. Thank you for the reply pebble.
 
update on Esther: She is now 600g. We are syringe feeding her. She has finished her baytril and metacam. She is still not well, I think her urine is still dark and now her poops are skinny and they is a lot less than there should be. I managed to get an appointment with a specialist in pocket pets on tuesday at a clinic two towns over. At this point I don't think I am asking for advice- just to keep her in your thoughts. I am very worried about my poor girl. With all of this going on, her attitude is still so good. What a trouper. Hopefully the vet will have something new to say, and we can rally Esther.
 
She will surely be in my thoughts. Sending healing vibes and much hugs. I really hope she gets better.
 
archie_edith said:
update on Esther: She is now 600g. We are syringe feeding her. She has finished her baytril and metacam. She is still not well, I think her urine is still dark and now her poops are skinny and they is a lot less than there should be. I managed to get an appointment with a specialist in pocket pets on tuesday at a clinic two towns over. At this point I don't think I am asking for advice- just to keep her in your thoughts. I am very worried about my poor girl. With all of this going on, her attitude is still so good. What a trouper. Hopefully the vet will have something new to say, and we can rally Esther.
Click to expand...

I think the fact that she is losing weight and her poos are skinny must surely mean there is not enough food going through her gut/gut not working properly. I know you are syringe feeding her, which I know will be traumatic at times for both of you, but as there is no improvement, I think she does need to see the other vet, which I know you have booked already. Is she/he one who knows about guinea pigs?

Is Esther hungry? Is she eating hay on her own? Is she eating pellets on her own? Sometimes when they have mouth problems they lose their confidence in being able to chew hard things and that is when their weight keeps dropping. I had a guinea pig with teeth problems and he lost his confidence in eating the basics, so I had to hand feed his normal food giving feeding support and encouragement, as well as syringe feeding to keep him going.

I know it is a nightmare when their weight keeps dropping, despite all your efforts - my thoughts are with you and healing vibes to Esther. Let us know how she gets on on Tuesday and what the vet has to say. Best wishes.
 
Hope the other vet can help.

How many mls of feed is she having a day?
 
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