Euthanasia: When is it “time”?

[rhymer]

So glad Hamish is still with you. What a little trooper. I agree you will know when the time comes, you can see it in their eyes but it is difficult to describe.
Sending you hugs.xx

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Hello You and Trooper Hamish.
Once ill or old age arrives course as in humans we never are the same as once were.
I used to be a fast bowler at cricket and now I'm tired playing crown green bowls.
Enjoy the extra days . x
Remember P.L.H.
Piggie 1st.. Love 2nd... Heart 3rd...

 

[artcasper]

Hello You and Trooper Hamish.
Once ill or old age arrives course as in humans we never are the same as once were.
I used to be a fast bowler at cricket and now I'm tired playing crown green bowls.
Enjoy the extra days . x
Remember P.L.H.
Piggie 1st.. Love 2nd... Heart 3rd...

That's a lovely thing @David Piggie Lover
P.L.H

 

[alexr]

So pleased to read your amazing news

I know! He’s such a trooper. More rain so I might have to get some towels down in the kitchen so he can have a potter about and keep active. X

 

[alexr]

I have just caught up with your thread and I am ever so sorry that you may need to make the decision soon but it is great that Hamish is still with you.

I agree with what others have said about the eyes. I’ve had to have 5 of my precious guinea pigs pts now and each time they have lost that spark in their eyes. I regret every single decision I made but deep down, I know it was in the piggies best interest at the time.

Trust me, you will know when that time comes xx

He’s a bit hunched up and grumpy today but I honestly think it’s because he can’t go outside. I think I’m going to have to do what I do in winter and let them have a play in the kitchen. Poor Hamish is staring out the window!

 

[alexr]

So glad Hamish is still with you. What a little trooper. I agree you will know when the time comes, you can see it in their eyes but it is difficult to describe.
Sending you hugs.xx

I know what you mean about the eyes. When I look back at pictures of my boys who have passed, you can see a difference in their eyes in the couple of days before they died. Luckily, Hamish’s are shiny. I have to wipe crusty bits off each day but this seems to be a common factor with all the OAP piggies I’ve had.

 

[alexr]

Hello You and Trooper Hamish.
Once ill or old age arrives course as in humans we never are the same as once were.
I used to be a fast bowler at cricket and now I'm tired playing crown green bowls.
Enjoy the extra days . x
Remember P.L.H.
Piggie 1st.. Love 2nd... Heart 3rd...

Thanks David! I love the PLH! I have really noticed how exercise seems to help his arthritis. I suppose he needs to keep using his muscles to keep them mobile. He has adapted his walking style and, although he moves differently to the others, he can move pretty quickly when he wants to! Obviously he’s determined to keep up with his buddies. He did go for a rest in the bush yesterday but was soon coaxed out by Rupert and was happily nibbling grass and moving about.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Aw, so glad little Hamish is still with you x

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Thanks David! I love the PLH! I have really noticed how exercise seems to help his arthritis. I suppose he needs to keep using his muscles to keep them mobile. He has adapted his walking style and, although he moves differently to the others, he can move pretty quickly when he wants to! Obviously he’s determined to keep up with his buddies. He did go for a rest in the bush yesterday but was soon coaxed out by Rupert and was happily nibbling grass and moving about.

They adapt very well. Cocoa did veey well and was not fazed at all.
You doing a very amazing thing all through L. Love
Big hugs off me and my 4 girls piggies.

 

[alexr]

Hamish is still with us! The only real deterioration is him resting a bit more while out in the garden. Also, the cleaning of his impacted bum is now up to 3 times per day. As long as he’s happy with most aspects of his life, I’m happy to provide him with all the extra support he needs.

 

[rhymer]

Glad to hear Hamish is ok. Keep up the great work. I had a boar with impaction years ago. Took him on holiday with us because I worried anyone I asked to mind him would not provide him with the proper care or understand. The things we do for love.xx

 

[Bill & Ted]

Aw, so glad little Hamish is still with you x

 

[pfleven]

Hi All,

I’m facing a very difficult decision. In all my years of guinea pig ownership, I’ve been very fortunate in that I’ve never had to have a piggy PTS. One was due to be put down but died just prior to the appointment.

This post is about my darling old boy Hamish who came to me from a rescue 3 years ago. He is supposedly 5.5yrs old but myself and 3 vets all suspect he is much older - probably more like 7 or 8.

I have a very special bond with Hamish and he is a wonderful friend and grandpa figure to all my other boars. I have some singles and he loves spending time with them all each day. He is especially close to his “room mate” Herbie and also to his neighbour Rupert.

Hamish seems to try to hide his frailty to his friends but, unusually, Herbie wants to sit next to him all the time and Rupert seems to be looking sad and keeping a constant watch next door. Hamish seems to reveal his weakness to me more when we are on our own. I suppose he doesn’t want to give up his “leader” status to them just yet.

Hamish used to be a big 1.3kg piggy but has lost a lot of weight down to 1kg-1.1kg due to dental issues. Simon Maddock in Northampton felt the weight loss wasn’t a huge concern if he is still eating as he has bad arthritis in his back legs and being lighter would ease the pressure. He is on Loxicom 0.35ml twice per day and apparently there is not much room for manoeuvre. He has been managing well for several months.

However, in recent weeks, I have noticed a big deterioration in his mobility. He hobbles about and often falls over. He is incredibly bony. However, he is very determined and, once he gets going, he tries to be very active with his friends. He most certainly doesn’t want to reveal his decline to them it seems.

He is still eating as normal. However, his weight has dropped rapidly in the last week from 1.1kg to 920g - a huge alarm bell. He seemed very unwell last night. Very lethargic and exaggerated breathing. I started him on critical care and he really didn’t seem to want it but I force fed him. He then just wanted to lay on my shoulder for a long time with his head buried. I thought it might be game over.

He seemed to be a bit brighter today and I tried to book him in with Simon but he is away on holiday and so is my vet friend. Instead, I took him to see another local vet who we have seen before.

He did not feel the outlook is good and thinks it is unfair to force critical care upon him when the prognosis is not positive. He thinks I may have to make the decision to “offer him the kindest gift” very soon if quality of life is not evident. He says there is a lot of muscle decline in his hind legs and is very frail. He said his teeth are ok.

Hamish is still keen to eat food and I gave him all his favourites tonight but he hasn’t eaten much. He still seems very keen to romp around with his friends so I do see some quality of life there.

However, the vet said he feels the day will come very soon when I may need to step in with the very hard decision. We agreed that I would try to really spoil him over the weekend with time with his friends and all his favourite treats.

How will I know when the day has arrived? The vet thinks it may need to be pretty soon. Will it be when he doesn’t want food and can’t walk? I just don’t know. The time doesn’t feel right just yet.

I am hoping to speak to my vet friend when she returns from her hols tomorrow for a second opinion.

I was just wanting to ask the forum if you have any tips for knowing when it’s the right time to help Hamish over the bridge? I would much prefer to find him in his forever sleep but I will do what’s right for him and certainly don’t want him to suffer.

I take the loss of my special piggies very badly and suffer from severe depression. I need to know that I have done absolutely everything for Hamish before I am ready to face the guilt of “playing God” to end his life and never knowing if it was the right time.

Although I’ve seen the vet we saw today before and he’s normally spot-on about things, I’d have accepted the news better from Simon or from our vet friend Kate.

I just don’t know. Sorry for rambling, I just felt the need to get it off my chest to people who understand.

Alex x

I am so sorry.

I am in this position too with my beloved Vince. He is 6.5 years old and arthritic, on tramadol 2x per day for the pain, hobbles around but is the sweetest little love bug ever! Brought him to the vet last Saturday as he was lethargic and wasn't interested in eating - a first for him - he just wasn't himself. Learned his molars are a mess but I'm scared of the anesthesia impact at his age for teeth grinding to be done. This week he has perked up considerably eating soft foods, critical care and hay. He sleeps a great deal, loves cuddle time and seems happy. So my dilemma is - do we keep our appt tomorrow for PTS. Is it time? Is he suffering a great deal? How do you measure that? Should we do it now versus waiting until it's potentially critical? I am such a mess over this!

 

[Betsy]

Welcome to the forum @pfleven it's a difficult time for you. Only you will be able to tell when the time for Vince to trundle off to the Rainbow Bridge has arrived. You can tell by their eyes when it is time to go the light seems to go out them.

 

[pfleven]

Welcome to the forum @pfleven it's a difficult time for you. Only you will be able to tell when the time for Vince to trundle off to the Rainbow Bridge has arrived. You can tell by their eyes when it is time to go the light seems to go out them.

Thank you Betsy. It is true about the eyes as I saw that in my cat and dog years ago. I will give Vince lots of cuddles tonight and see what tomorrow brings.

 

[alexr]

Unfortunately, I’m very sad to report that Hamish has declined in the last day. He didn’t want his dinner last night and spent all his time curled up under his fiddlesticks. I had to separate him from Herbie and let him sleep in Rupert’s cage as Herbie kept trying to mount him and Hamish was squeaking his head off trying to warn him off. He went to straight to sleep in Rupert’s bedroom with a concerned Rupert keeping guard. Rupert seemed very depressed and subdued so I think he knew Hamish wasn’t well and wanted peace.
Today Hamish cannot walk. He has lost all strength in one of his back legs and cannot support his weight.
He’s enjoyed eating some herbs but, apart from that, he’s curled up comfortably on a pile of hay under his fiddlesticks in the run watching the others.
I plan to keep him comfortable over the weekend and I am trying to book an appointment to see the vet on Monday for his final journey.

 

[Gem789]

Unfortunately, I’m very sad to report that Hamish has declined in the last day. He didn’t want his dinner last night and spent all his time curled up under his fiddlesticks. I had to separate him from Herbie and let him sleep in Rupert’s cage as Herbie kept trying to mount him and Hamish was squeaking his head off trying to warn him off. He went to straight to sleep in Rupert’s bedroom with a concerned Rupert keeping guard. Rupert seemed very depressed and subdued so I think he knew Hamish wasn’t well and wanted peace.
Today Hamish cannot walk. He has lost all strength in one of his back legs and cannot support his weight.
He’s enjoyed eating some herbs but, apart from that, he’s curled up comfortably on a pile of hay under his fiddlesticks in the run watching the others.
I plan to keep him comfortable over the weekend and I am trying to book an appointment to see the vet on Monday for his final journey.

Oh I'm so sorry to hear this xx

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry to hear your sad news. I hope he can have a comfortable weekend with you and your other piggies. You know in your heart when it's time. Xx

 

[rhymer]

So sorry to hear this. Sending hugs.x

 

[VickiA]

I’m so sorry to hear of his decline. Just make the most of the time available to you. Hugs

 

[Wheekallweek]

So so sorry. Hamish has had such a wonderful life with a wonderful, caring owner. He knows how much you love him. God bless Hamish x

 

[alexr]

Thank you all for your kind words. Hamish perked up a bit yesterday evening and although he can’t walk far, he is keen on his food again. I don’t think he is quite ready yet. I’m going to gauge it day by day. He is a very determined piggy. I think we’re very close to time but I’ve seen a renewed enthusiasm from him since yesterday so I’m trying to listen to him.

 

[PERFECT G PIGS]

I am so sorry . The L.A. Guinea Pig rescue uses CBD oil for her elderly piggies. You can get it on Amazon. It is a gel pen. Prayers for strength during this time. It's so hard to make these decisions.

Cbd sounds like great stuff as it can get a badly very much in pain Guinea pig out of pain with in 5mins

 

[PERFECT G PIGS]

I would definitely do syringe feeding as if he's not taking it from spoon or bowl he could end up in a reel state.

 

[alexr]

Cbd sounds like great stuff as it can get a badly very much in pain Guinea pig out of pain with in 5mins

I have been looking into this and it looks remarkable. The “before” video is exactly how Hamish is moving now. I’m willing to try it but they’ve sold out on Amazon. I’d have to get it sent from the US which will take time. Does anyone know of an equivalent product available readily in the UK?

 

[alexr]

I would definitely do syringe feeding as if he's not taking it from spoon or bowl he could end up in a reel state.

Fortunately, he is eating normally again and with enthusiasm so I don’t think that’s needed currently. I do have Critical Care in case though.

 

[Betsy]

@Adelle has looked into cbd oil in great depth for one of her piggies.

 

[alexr]

@Adelle has looked into cbd oil in great depth for one of her piggies.

Thank you! @Adelle I’d be really interested to hear how you’ve got on with the CBD. Have you managed to source some in the UK? I chatted with our vet today and she didn’t seem convinced but would like to try acupuncture tomorrow as she’s seen some great results in other animals. Still interested in other people’s experiences of the CBD though.

 

[GPTV]

In the UK Holland & Barrett do it
Cbd | Holland & Barrett - the UK’s Leading Health Retailer

But please discuss with your vet first, as there are many strengths & you'll need to get dosage amounts worked out & tailored to your guineas needs.

I think Adelle has also had laser therapy on Crunchie for pain/arthritis?
If your vet offers it, it might be worth a try?
My dog has laser therapy for arthritis & it's improved her mobility significantly, she's even gone from 39kg to 34.5kg where she can run around more. Which in turn helps reduce her joint pain
However its more of a gradual build up treatment.

Acupuncture helped my first dog with his joint pain

Can the vet up the dose of loxicom /metacam to the maximum if pain is his main issue(pain will affect/lessen his appetite)? Or Use dog Metacam opposed to the cat version as it's 3x stronger?

I found that none of my girls have ever liked critical care food, but will readily accept Supreme recovery food.
Or u could just try boiling water on the usual pellet food, let it cool down to warm/cool , Guineas often eat this without too much effort,

Little Hamish will let you know when he's had enough, your bond with him sounds strong, so I think you'll tell quite easily when enough is enough.

Luv the girls & I xx

 

[alexr]

In the UK Holland & Barrett do it
Cbd | Holland & Barrett - the UK’s Leading Health Retailer

But please discuss with your vet first, as there are many strengths & you'll need to get dosage amounts worked out & tailored to your guineas needs.

I think Adelle has also had laser therapy on Crunchie for pain/arthritis?
If your vet offers it, it might be worth a try?
My dog has laser therapy for arthritis & it's improved her mobility significantly, she's even gone from 39kg to 34.5kg where she can run around more. Which in turn helps reduce her joint pain
However its more of a gradual build up treatment.

Acupuncture helped my first dog with his joint pain

Can the vet up the dose of loxicom /metacam to the maximum if pain is his main issue(pain will affect/lessen his appetite)? Or Use dog Metacam opposed to the cat version as it's 3x stronger?

I found that none of my girls have ever liked critical care food, but will readily accept Supreme recovery food.
Or u could just try boiling water on the usual pellet food, let it cool down to warm/cool , Guineas often eat this without too much effort,

Little Hamish will let you know when he's had enough, your bond with him sounds strong, so I think you'll tell quite easily when enough is enough.

Luv the girls & I xx

Thank you for your helpful message. Hamish’s on 0.35ml of the dog Metacam twice per day. Apparently this is the max he can have for his weight. My vet is thinking of something stronger like Tramadol but I’ll see what she thinks tomorrow when she sees him. I’m slightly unsure whether it’s fair to stick needles in him for the acupuncture but it’s perhaps worth a go if it helps.
He’s having a fairly good day today. Slowly pottering around the run nibbling grass before having a rest. I guess he just does what he can. It’s certainly an improvement on Saturday when he could barely stand and could only move about a foot before collapsing. I think he’s managed to get some much needed rest in Rupert’s cage and is feeling a bit brighter. Although Herbie is his cage mate, he can be a bit of a boisterous pain whereas Rupert is a lot more gentle with Hamish. I’m wondering if Herbie knocked him over the other day and that triggered the bad episode. I don’t think all his friends quite realise how old and fragile he is! Xx