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Excessive Dribbling And Choking - More Than A Tooth Problem?

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garfieldette

garfieldette

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I was hoping someone with experience might have some suggestions on what might be going on with my Lara.

Lara has been receiving ongoing teeth filing (overgrown molars) from my vet. But last time I visited my vet said that she thought something else was going on as Lara was dribbling everywhere but the vet said her teeth weren't that bad and not enough to be causing that much dribbling. We agreed to both go away and do some research, so here I am.

Background: Lara is 4.5 years old. She has been having conscious teeth filing every couple of months for the last 18 months. She receives 0.3ml of metacam each day for pain relief. She refuses to drink from bottle or bowl and I have to syringe her water throughout the day. She eats pellets, hay and vedge but not in the quantity she used to and spends a lot of time sat in a hidey, only coming out once or twice a day.

Lara is permanently wet down her front. As soon as the vet touches her she drools all over the table. She chokes multiple times a day and its getting worse. Its so distressing, like something has gone down the wrong way. She does it when not eating or drinking now.

Her weight had dropped to 650g from 1.1 kilo but have managed to get her back up to 850g. The vet has been unwilling to xray because of her weight and not being up to anaesthetic but now she is putting back some weight it may be more of an option now.

I read with interest the post on heart symptoms in gps and wondered if this could be the case for Lara, but I cannot report hearing "hooting", just choking noises and some rumbling when she is asleep like she has lung issues, but this disappears as soon as she is awake and the vet has listened to her chest and cannot hear a problem. Her drooling has now stained her front brown (in case this is relevant).

Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be a possible cause for her problems? My vet is as concerned about her as I am and genuinely wanted some suggestions of conditions we can look into.
thanks in advance.
 
Has the vet thought of oral thrush at all or maybe some kind of problem with her gullet? It is possible to do a conscious x-ray & that would be my next thought. You may have to make enquiries as to whether there is a vet nearby who will do this, or maybe take her to see Simon Maddock at the Cat & Rabbit clinic in Northampton as I believe he does conscious x-rays :)
 
I agree with Poppy's mum, it's worth getting a secon opinion.simon is great and so experienced especially with dentals,what's to lose?
 
I agree a second opinion is needed and by a vet who can do conscious xrays.

Heart issues are a possibility though as one the symptoms is excessive salivation, however, it is usually only if there is no dental issue which in this case there is. However, if a conscious xray is done then the heart can be included to check if it is enlarged and if there is any fluid build up around the heart or lungs which could be causing the choking.

I too was also wondering about oral thrush.

It is also a matter of working out what the original issue is as it could be the dental issues but then it could be something else that then resulted in dental issues due to her not wanting to eat properly.
 
I have just seen your other thread and if you are not able to get to Northampton a Piggy Train can be arranged, if you are on Facebook ask to join the group and it may be possible to arrange something.
 
I would wonder whether there is a dental abscess brewing that has not gotten large enough to be noticeable yet. One of my pigs, Sundae, had similar issues (overgrown molars, choking, difficulty chewing.) She would briefly improve with dental filing, but would soon end up back in the same place, and on a couple of occasions there was really nothing visibly wrong with her teeth despite showing symptoms. Eventually, her face did puff up with a dental abscess and after that was treated, her dental issues resolved. The vet's theory was that there had been an underlying abscess for a long time that was not apparent until it reached a certain size. Maybe an x-ray could clear up whether there are any pockets or masses that shouldn't be there.
 
katanamoon said:
How is Lara doing @garfieldette? x
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Lara seems to have perked up a bit in the last couple of days. She has been out more and eating hay and pellets more than she has been for a week. Still all wet and brown down her front but not choking nearly as much. My vet is back tomorrow and we have a 3.50 appointment.
 
Freela said:
I would wonder whether there is a dental abscess brewing that has not gotten large enough to be noticeable yet. One of my pigs, Sundae, had similar issues (overgrown molars, choking, difficulty chewing.) She would briefly improve with dental filing, but would soon end up back in the same place, and on a couple of occasions there was really nothing visibly wrong with her teeth despite showing symptoms. Eventually, her face did puff up with a dental abscess and after that was treated, her dental issues resolved. The vet's theory was that there had been an underlying abscess for a long time that was not apparent until it reached a certain size. Maybe an x-ray could clear up whether there are any pockets or masses that shouldn't be there.
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Thanks @Freela, that does sound very much like Lara. She will have a few days after teeth filing where she seems so much better but then quickly goes back down. It sounds like an xray is the only way forward on this.
 
Update on Lara after vet visit and xray today

So, Ive just got back from the vets. They did xrays on Lara today. They sedated her a little as she was freeking out. This gave the vet a good chance to look at Laras mouth and teeth at the same time.

Results of xrays show no enlarged heart or fluid on heart, no problems with lungs, no growths or blockages in throat and her teeth look OK. She took the opportunity to file her back teeth while she was sedated but it was only a little and its been 2 months since her last filing so that is not the problem.

There is no soreness or injuries in her mouth. The only thing the vet noticed is that the back of her throat looked sore. She took swabs and its not oral thrush.

She did say that when they were sedating Lara she choked a little like she has been and she brought up food into her mouth which is why she had a really good look at her throat and noticed the soreness.

She is treating for a throat infection and given me Baytril and Ronaxan tablets which I have to give 1/8th pill to her twice a day (that should be fun).

We have given Lara Baytril before and she has improved but gone straight down hill again as soon as the course is finished so this time giving it her for 2 weeks.

Any suggestions on the best way to get her to take pills as she is a little minx and will not take medication. Anyone seen anything like this infection in their guinea pigs?
 
I think Amanda may have had a throat infection with one of hers a couple of years ago. Can I just ask how the vet knew it wasn't oral thrush? was it the lack of smell?

I would crush the tablet up with a little bit of water and syringe it. Nigel was on Ronaxan (Doxycycline) when he arrived and am sure that's what we did though it was a few years ago.
 
If your vet took swabs she won't know for sure whether it is oral thrush or not until it's cultured surely? Hopefully she will get the swab sent off to find out what exactly they are up against. Can piggies get strep throat Helen? Just thinking outside the box here :)
 
If it was an antibiotic resistant strep infection they will be able to culture & use a more appropriate antibiotic than Baytril hopefully?
 
Hopefully the Ronaxan should be effective to some extent as it is one of the big guns but I do think a culture would be a good idea so the antibiotic can be changed if needed or fungal medication given. Though oral thrush doesn't tend to produce anything on a standard culture apart from the case I posted about recently.
 
This thread makes interesting reading & also Pebble mentions her pigs have resistance to Baytril : http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/...e-advice-regarding-gladys.73229/#post-1075423
 
helen105281 said:
Can I just ask how the vet knew it wasn't oral thrush? was it the lack of smell?
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Hi. Forgive me if I get this wrong, I'm trying to remember what she said as there was a lot discussed. She said she had analysed the results (charged for lab cytology in house) and that there was no candida present. I asked about sending the swobs off and she said that the only way to know any more about what the infection was was to take blood samples and send off for analysis which would cost a bomb. She wanted to try this first and see if it sorted the problem after 2 weeks. Does this make sense? Sorry, they rattle this stuff off at you and you just try to absorb and remember the things you need to do.
 
That makes perfect sense. I don't completely agree with her though. However, oral thrush does have a very distinctive smell and can be seen as a plaque in the mouth in some cases, however, it can also be in the gullet.
 
Just to clarify a few points:
A properly stained cytological preparation from a throat swab (mucous membrane) should show up the presence of yeast in its pathogenic form. It doesn't need to be cultured as it is very distinctive and diagnosable under the microscope, A poo on the other hand WOULD need to be cultured to demonstrate the presence of pathogenic yeast.

With bacteria, all you can do is find out microscopically whether they are gran negatiive or gram positive and what their shape is (i.e. rods/cocci/spirochaetes etc ) - doesn't tell you which microbe or the best antibiotic to deal with it - hence why cultures of swabs or poos are the preferred method. I have had (quite invasive) nasal and throat swabs taken from my piggies and sent away for culture - so in this respect I do not agree with your vet "per se" that bloods is the only way to identify the bacterial infection. (I am wondering if she would have said this had she had the forethought to take 2 swabs - one for cytology and one for culture?n Swabs have to be taken/cultured prior to antibiotic administration to be meaningful , and if anitbiotics are now being administered then unless and until you have a 7day antibioitic-free period, it's not worth taking swabs for culture. This could be why your vet said bloods is the only way forwards)

Finally - if it is bacterial in origin - then the combination of doxycycline and baytril is a good one when taking into account the emergence of baytril resistance.
x
 
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