Fighting out of nowhere, need help!
- Thread starter 2boars123
- Start date
Hi and welcome!
I guess that your boys have hit the teenage hormones (4-14 months).
Please separate as soon as tensions mount and neither boy is backing down in the face offs. Things can escalate very quickly otherwise as you have experienced - this fight hasn't quite blown up out of nowhere but it is easy to misread the earlier warning signs when you are not experienced and have never had a serious confrontation blow up in your face before.
NEVER get in between fighting piggies with bare hands as you may end up with an instinctive deep defence bite potentially crippling your hand forever.
Please read these two guides here. They take you through the teenage months, what you can do after a fight and if a re-introduction on neutral ground after two days (when the current hormone spike has hopefully died down) does not work out.
The guides also list all your options after a permanent fall-out. Please take the time to think things through and don't be tempted give in to knee jerk reactions.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
It is not your boys' fault that you have brought home two obviously dominant personalities. Sadly what people selling cute little babies won't tell you is that key to any successful piggy bond is mutual liking and character compatibility - and that the real test comes when your two same aged boys hit the teenage hormones together once their testicles start descending... it is also a myth that brothers won't fight. What counts is their personalities and whether they harmonise or clash.
Give your boys time to cool down. If the aggravation between them is too strong, you will know very quickly when you try to re-introduce them on neutal. Make sure that you can separate ASAP with a thick oven glove without risking your hands and that you have by then a plan B for a failed bonding worked out.
All the best!
Personally I think that you have rather reached the end of the line reading the body language.
Thank you so much it’s so good to get advice. They aren’t brothers, just look alike, but is it normal for the younger one to be completely submissive until now? Also, what do you means by me reaching the end of the line of reading body language, sorry not quite sure what that means. Thank you so much again for reaching out, it means a lot!Hi and welcome!
I guess that your boys have hit the teenage hormones (4-14 months).
Please separate as soon as tensions mount and neither boy is backing down in the face offs. Things can escalate very quickly otherwise as you have experienced - this fight hasn't quite blown up out of nowhere but it is easy to misread the earlier warning signs when you are not experienced and have never had a serious confrontation blow up in your face before.
NEVER get in between fighting piggies with bare hands as you may end up with an instinctive deep defence bite potentially crippling your hand forever.
Please read these two guides here. They take you through the teenage months, what you can do after a fight and if a re-introduction on neutral ground after two days (when the current hormone spike has hopefully died down) does not work out.
The guides also list all your options after a permanent fall-out. Please take the time to think things through and don't be tempted give in to knee jerk reactions.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
It is not your boys' fault that you have brought home two obviously dominant personalities. Sadly what people selling cute little babies won't tell you is that key to any successful piggy bond is mutual liking and character compatibility - and that the real test comes when your two same aged boys hit the teenage hormones together once their testicles start descending... it is also a myth that brothers won't fight. What counts is their personalities and whether they harmonise or clash.
Give your boys time to cool down. If the aggravation between them is too strong, you will know very quickly when you try to re-introduce them on neutal. Make sure that you can separate ASAP with a thick oven glove without risking your hands and that you have by then a plan B for a failed bonding worked out.
All the best!
Personally I think that you have rather reached the end of the line reading the body language.
It looks like they both now want to be the dominant piggy and that is not a sustainable way for them to live. There will be constant tensions and the possibility of it leading to full on fights if you leave them together.
What Wiebke means by ‘reached the end of the line from the body language ’ Is that it looks like, from the way they are behaving, that their relationship is over.
Wiebke does suggest giving them some time apart and then trying reintroducing them on neutral territory and seeing what happens. If this behaviour happens again when they are reintroduced on neutral territory, then they will definitely need to be separated permanently
A day or two is usually enough. It’ll be quite clear quite quickly when you put them back together whether things are going to work out - any more behaviour like in the video and it is definitely the end of their relationship.
What size is their cage?
First picture is their cage and the second picture is where I first introduced them/where I’m keeping the second one as of right now. If the cage is a problem I will definitely upgrade it
Attachments
I am afraid the cage is far too small for two boars. Ultimately though I think their problem is character related but being in too small of a cage causes problems. Boars need a lot of room and a cage of 150cm x 60 at a minimum. The more space you can give boars the better - a 180cm (6ft) cage is the recommended size on the link below. Also remember that guinea pigs need their cage on one level, and it is only the one level that counts towards the cage size (upstairs levels are a bonus but don’t increase the cage size)
Cage Size Guide
You have to be careful when increasing cage size as that change in itself can set off territorial disputes.
Cage Size Guide
You have to be careful when increasing cage size as that change in itself can set off territorial disputes.
2-3 days apart is usually enough for any hormone spike to die down. The re-introduction is there for you to work out whether the bond is still functional or not. This usually shows very quickly whether your boys still want to be friends or whether they are back to the confrontational behaviour you have documented in your video - you will know in less than 15-30 but a bonding can last as little as 3-5 minutes before you have to separate. If you have to separate, the bond has failed. Please separate ASAP before they start fighting again, as soon as you notice their very stiff bodies and full-on confrontation. Have your oven gloves and divider or a carrier box on stand by.
In working pairs one party will step back and diffuse the situation with some neutral/friendly behaviour.
Please take the time to read the very detailed and VERY practical guide links that I have provided. They take you through all aspects of what you are facing.
The descent of the testicles is accompanied by strong testosterone spikes. This can turn your little babies instantly into a full-on teenager unfortunately.
Everybody hopes that their boys are going to go happily back. Sadly most fighting boys won't - but you want to make sure of that even if it is just for your own peace mind that you are doing the right thing to separate permanently.
Unfortunately for you most pairs that get into fights right at the start of the ca. 10 months long teenage will never make it to the end as the real testosterone high and the touchstone for a all baby bonds is yet to come.
It is always a very upsetting and gutting experience for every loving and responsible owner!
Yes, it can happen. How old are they? As teenagers, hormones fly and cause problems when piggies are not suited to each other, but a change in hierarchy can happen even with bonded adult boars.
I have two boars myself (now coming up to two years old) who made it through the teenage months with very little problem (a few hormonal squabbles but nothing major at all). That said, I always keep a plan and spare grids in case there was suddenly a problem between them and they needed to be separated.
Well, I got the older one as a birthday gift and the pet store (I know, shouldnt get them there) told us he was a girl and about 5 months. Well, turns out he’s a boy so I’m not sure if his age was right either. If he was 5 months when I got him, he’d be about 11-12 months now. When I got the younger one they never told me how old he was but I suspect around 6-7 months
Also, is it possible for the horomones to die down and this just be a teenager phase?
Well, I got the older one as a birthday gift and the pet store (I know, shouldnt get them there) told us he was a girl and about 5 months. Well, turns out he’s a boy so I’m not sure if his age was right either. If he was 5 months when I got him, he’d be about 11-12 months now. When I got the younger one they never told me how old he was but I suspect around 6-7 months
Hormones do settle down but what I have seen in your video suggests it could be more than a hormonal squabble.
They are both still teenagers - 4-14 months is the teenager phase. Your younger one is just coming into his own and it looks like he has also decided to be dominant. If he was happy to be submissive, he would have backed down but he didn’t and this is what is concerning for their relationship.
There is nothing you can do - if they have decided they don’t like each other anymore, then that will be end I’m afraid.
When you try the reintroduction, ensure it is done in a neutral space (the bath tub for example) - putting a piggy in another piggy’s cage will be seen as a territory invasion
Thank you all for the advice. I’m hoping they resolve their issues, I will try again tomorrow. If it doesn’t work out I have no idea what to do. I don’t have the space for 2 cages and will probably have to give one away. I’m really hoping it doesn’t have to come to that, I love them both so much. Ugh! Thank you all so much, will keep you updated. Any other advice would be lovely
If they can’t live together, then they would have to live separately but ideally next door to each other so they could still communicate through the bars so they don’t get lonely This is obviously problematic if you don’t have space for two cages to be side by side. If it did come to it and you had to give one away, then you would still have to try to get another piggy so your remaining piggy wasn’t alone. That said to keep two boars together then a 5/6ft cage is recommended, which would be not really any different (with the space it takes up) to having two cages side by side.
Yes, that is a solution. You would still need to ensure that each half of the cage was big enough though
Good to know. Would a C&C cage be good to build it from?
Yes a c&c would be perfect
Thanks so much!
FarmGirl
Junior Guinea Pig
I had two brothers many years ago who were best buddies up until about 18 months old; one was always more dominant than the other but then suddenly they fell out and had a fur flying fight. I tried to reintroduce them but to no avail- but they still seemed to want to be near each other so they ended up in neighbouring C&Cs and would chat happily through the wire and hang out together either side of the grids!
On the other hand I've had boars live happily together all their lives (including a very rare trio who were given to me as females!). It just depends!
I hope you manage to work out something with your boys whether reintroduced or living next door to each other. The guides are fantastic help :-)
Thank you. It’s reassuring to know even if they don’t end up liking each other that I can still keep both and they won’t be lonely
If they need to live separately then each piggy can live in a cage which measures 3 grids by 2 grids side by side as in the picture.