Fluffys fear aggression

Emx93

Emx93

Adult Guinea Pig
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A few of you may remember from the health and illness section that fluffy was spayed 13days ago due to hormonal aggression/constantly been in season, since then she seems too have developed fear aggression, if her cage is even in the same room as nugget and marshmallow she stops eating, we've tried rebonding several times but nugget won't have her back and fluffy has a bite wound to her rump from the last bonding attempt, we went to try bonding with @pig in the city today but unfortunately she wouldn't bond with either boar squiggle or older sow princess, it looks like fear aggression is the problem so she would probably need a slow bond, we can fit a divider into the new cage which we haven't put her into yet so that it's neutral territory, on her own she seems depressed and just sits in a corner (she keeps weeing on herself resulting in lots of bum baths which won't be good for her skin) she does respond to human interaction which she's getting lots of but I don't want her to be lonely, what's best to try next? Wait a couple of weeks and then try a baby? She doesn't seem to like baby marshmallow too much either 😔
@Wiebke any ideas?
 
Emx93 said:
A few of you may remember from the health and illness section that fluffy was spayed 13days ago due to hormonal aggression/constantly been in season, since then she seems too have developed fear aggression, if her cage is even in the same room as nugget and marshmallow she stops eating, we've tried rebonding several times but nugget won't have her back and fluffy has a bite wound to her rump from the last bonding attempt, we went to try bonding with @pig in the city today but unfortunately she wouldn't bond with either boar squiggle or older sow princess, it looks like fear aggression is the problem so she would probably need a slow bond, we can fit a divider into the new cage which we haven't put her into yet so that it's neutral territory, on her own she seems depressed and just sits in a corner (she keeps weeing on herself resulting in lots of bum baths which won't be good for her skin) she does respond to human interaction which she's getting lots of but I don't want her to be lonely, what's best to try next? Wait a couple of weeks and then try a baby? She doesn't seem to like baby marshmallow too much either 😔
@Wiebke any ideas?
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I think you have to take it very slowly and just keep her next door to a piggy that cannot threaten her for a while. It is never going to be a quick solution with piggies having some serious social issues. Working through her social fears after some bad experiences is not a quick process.

In most cases, it has taken me several months to up to 1 1/2 years with my own fallen-out, ex-single or widowed sows and in one case I never got any further than living next doors.

I am currently where you are with my Hapus, just without the spaying.
 
Wiebke said:
I think you have to take it very slowly and just keep her next door to a piggy that cannot threaten her for a while. It is never going to be a quick solution with piggies having some serious social issues. Working through her social fears after some bad experiences is not a quick process.

In most cases, it has taken me several months to up to 1 1/2 years with my own fallen-out, ex-single or widowed sows and in one case I never got any further than living next doors.

I am currently where you are with my Hapus, just without the spaying.
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Thankyou, would you suggest a next door neighbour soon or waiting a couple of weeks for her hormones to finish clearing? Also would a baby sow be the best option for a neighbour for her? We initially thought a boar might keep her in check but she definitely wasn't happy with poor squiggs, she actually did better with Princess, poor fluffy 😔 i wish idve known about hormonal issues before i found this forum, I would've taken her to the vets much much sooner if idve known and the bond might still be in tact 😔
 
Emx93 said:
Thankyou, would you suggest a next door neighbour soon or waiting a couple of weeks for her hormones to finish clearing? Also would a baby sow be the best option for a neighbour for her? We initially thought a boar might keep her in check but she definitely wasn't happy with poor squiggs, she actually did better with Princess, poor fluffy 😔 i wish idve known about hormonal issues before i found this forum, I would've taken her to the vets much much sooner if idve known and the bond might still be in tact 😔
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It is very much down to trial and error - my 6 year old peru diva Tegan moved in with fellow bereaved 8 year old depressed peru diva Cally after 10 months; Calli lived past her 9th birthday and Tegan decided that having company was better than being alone, so she's since then lived with other oldies she knows from earlier years since then.
Very fear-aggressive ex-single Beryn tried about everything (including two 5 week old babies girls that quite literally scared her stiff) and now lives after 1 1/2 years with 6 year old Betsan, who won't stand up for herself but is very good at complaining. Even then it took about a month of meetings lasting as far as Beryn could stand before going on overload.
Ffwlbri did move back in with her sister Tesni and Tesni's toy boy Gethin on the third attempt several months down the line.
Spayed Nesta lived next to two boys in the end after Nosgan, who was as much her counterpart in looks and outlook eas not allowed in her space but she enjoyed interacting through the bars, including his little sidekick Nye after Nosgan failed to find favour with any of my other sows.
Ex-single Dylan also failed with all my tricky sows and then struggled as soon as his submissive baby boar companion Llelo would no longer abase himself abjectedly after reaching the teenage months. He now lives happily with a mis-sexed baby sow since January.

In my experience, it very much depends on the right personality at the right time.
 
Wow it does look like it'll be trail and error, I'm glad all your tricky piggies lived happily in the end! I think I'll stick at trying sows then as nugget and marshmallow will bond with just about anyone other than fluffy I think so if a bonding failed with a sow there's always them as a back up *goes back to read reconmended rescues list*
 
Wiebke said:
It is very much down to trial and error - my 6 year old peru diva Tegan moved in with fellow bereaved 8 year old depressed peru diva Cally after 10 months; Calli lived past her 9th birthday and Tegan decided that having company was better than being alone, so she's since then lived with other oldies she knows from earlier years since then.
Very fear-aggressive ex-single Beryn tried about everything (including two 5 week old babies girls that quite literally scared her stiff) and now lives after 1 1/2 years with 6 year old Betsan, who won't stand up for herself but is very good at complaining. Even then it took about a month of meetings lasting as far as Beryn could stand before going on overload.
Ffwlbri did move back in with her sister Tesni and Tesni's toy boy Gethin on the third attempt several months down the line.
Spayed Nesta lived next to two boys in the end after Nosgan, who was as much her counterpart in looks and outlook eas not allowed in her space but she enjoyed interacting through the bars, including his little sidekick Nye after Nosgan failed to find favour with any of my other sows.
Ex-single Dylan also failed with all my tricky sows and then struggled as soon as his submissive baby boar companion Llelo would no longer abase himself abjectedly after reaching the teenage months. He now lives happily with a mis-sexed baby sow since January.

In my experience, it very much depends on the right personality at the right time.
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Eh? What? My brain's just gone into overload with all the complicated bondings, possible bondings, non bondings and falling outs! :doh:
 
Oh dear sounds like you've tried a lot of options for your girl, sorry to hear none of the bondings have worked out! Auntie @pig in the city is a real expert with bondings too, we have her to thank for our skinny pig Tallullah being happily married to lovely Ollie...
No idea what to suggest, but if you've recently tried a couple of bondings with no success maybe give her and yourself a break for a few weeks so you both have time to recover, failed bondings are very stressful all round... there will be a piggy friend out there for her somewhere though hopefully!
 
Thankyou, piggy daddy is already at work building a divide for the giant cage incase we have to go down the neighbours route, I think I'll give her a bit of a break then reassess the situation, i hate seeing her looking so lonely just want my happy girl back 🙈 she's only 15 months so she has a whole life ahead of her we just need to find her a friend to share it with 🙈
 
Emx93 said:
Thankyou, piggy daddy is already at work building a divide for the giant cage incase we have to go down the neighbours route, I think I'll give her a bit of a break then reassess the situation, i hate seeing her looking so lonely just want my happy girl back 🙈 she's only 15 months so she has a whole life ahead of her we just need to find her a friend to share it with 🙈
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PS: As Fluffy is spayed, you are of course also free to try her with baby boys or a really laid back older boar who is mostly past his testosterone output. ;)

Pig in the city is a very experienced bonder and rescue fosterer indeed. I am sure that she'll agree that there is the right piggy for Fluffy out there, but it is going to be rather a search to find a totally non-aggressive non-dominant one... and then to work slowly past her issues.
My Gareth was born at hers, by the way!
 
Wiebke said:
PS: As Fluffy is spayed, you are of course also free to try her with baby boys or a really laid back older boar who is mostly past his testosterone output. ;)

Pig in the city is a very experienced bonder and rescue foster indeed. I am sure that she'll agree that there is the right piggy for Fluffy out there, but it is going to be rather a search to find a totally non-aggressive non-dominant one... and then to work slowly past her issues.
My Gareth was born at hers, by the way!
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Yes l don't think we are anywhere near giving up with this little lady, it's just a question of finding the right friend.
A rescue will take back any piggies if bonds fail, the trouble with slow bonds is that it's hard to let piggies go after they have been with you for some time.
If @Emx93 wants to try a slow bond with Princess l am happy to do that as it wasn't a complete disaster , l just think Fluffy was fired up after being with Squiggle
 
pig in the city said:
Yes l don't think we are anywhere near giving up with this little lady, it's just a question of finding the right friend.
A rescue will take back any piggies if bonds fail, the trouble with slow bonds is that it's hard to let piggies go after they have been with you for some time.
If @Emx93 wants to try a slow bond with Princess l am happy to do that as it wasn't a complete disaster , l just think Fluffy was fired up after being with Squiggle
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Might be worth a try, @pig in the city !

VERY guilty about failed slow bonders staying on... Beryn alone is pigsonally responsible for about 6 new arrivals if you count in that Dylan was one of them and then HE needed two more piggies to settle him down with a permanent mate!

:oops:
 
Pig in the city was fab today and loads of help 😊 and I definitely prefer the idea of rescuing, Princess was a lovely piggy so we could try a slow bond (I think that was actually the calmest fluffy has actually been with another pig since her and nuggets bond broke) and with Princess being a sow there's always the option of trying to bond her with nugget and marshmallow (nuggets super chill and marshmallow is still young) x
 
PigglePuggle said:
Oh dear sounds like you've tried a lot of options for your girl, sorry to hear none of the bondings have worked out! Auntie @pig in the city is a real expert with bondings too, we have her to thank for our skinny pig Tallullah being happily married to lovely Ollie...
No idea what to suggest, but if you've recently tried a couple of bondings with no success maybe give her and yourself a break for a few weeks so you both have time to recover, failed bondings are very stressful all round... there will be a piggy friend out there for her somewhere though hopefully!
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Ollie and Tallulah were the easiest bond ever! Love at first sight xx
 
Emx93 said:
Pig in the city was fab today and loads of help 😊 and I definitely prefer the idea of rescuing, Princess was a lovely piggy so we could try a slow bond (I think that was actually the calmest fluffy has actually been with another pig since her and nuggets bond broke) and with Princess being a sow there's always the option of trying to bond her with nugget and marshmallow (nuggets super chill and marshmallow is still young) x
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I didn't actually consider this when you were here! I offered to do it for you but forgot that you would have the facilities to do a slow bond at your house.
If you do want to try remember that Princess is on long term metacam for her back legs, also she can get cystitis when she is stressed but the metacam should sort that out. I can give you a small amount to cover the bonding period and if she stays you can get your own supplies?
She is a lovely piggy and very friendly towards humans, especially if they have food!
Our fundraiser fair on Saturday is on the way to the M1 north, you could come along and l will take Princess along for you to collect?
BARC open day Saturday 3rd August
 
pig in the city said:
Ollie and Tallulah were the easiest bond ever! Love at first sight xx
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Yes an amazing outcome seeing as Tallullah's first bonding attempt ended up with both her and big pig Clover being ripped to shreds and patched up at the emergency vet less than 10 minutes in! Ollie and Tallullah are still completely in love, they spend hours grooming each other and popcorning while chasing each other and sitting together with Ollie nibbling one of her enormous ears :)
 
pig in the city said:
I didn't actually consider this when you were here! I offered to do it for you but forgot that you would have the facilities to do a slow bond at your house.
If you do want to try remember that Princess is on long term metacam for her back legs, also she can get cystitis when she is stressed but the metacam should sort that out. I can give you a small amount to cover the bonding period and if she stays you can get your own supplies?
She is a lovely piggy and very friendly towards humans, especially if they have food!
Our fundraiser fair on Saturday is on the way to the M1 north, you could come along and l will take Princess along for you to collect?
BARC open day Saturday 3rd August
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Sounds great 😊 I'll get sam to pop the divide in ready tomorrow 😊
 
Oooohh and in other news little marshmallow who's been extremely skittish since we got her and not stayed on me longer than a couple of minutes, let me pick her up without squeeling and sat on me happily for 10minutes 😁 shes been slowly getting braver with coming out while I'm sat in with them and not just running for cover, just got to work on her taking food from my hand now 😊
 
Emx93 said:
Oooohh and in other news little marshmallow who's been extremely skittish since we got her and not stayed on me longer than a couple of minutes, let me pick her up without squeeling and sat on me happily for 10minutes 😁 shes been slowly getting braver with coming out while I'm sat in with them and not just running for cover, just got to work on her taking food from my hand now 😊
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Use the piggy whispering techniques to assure her that she is a welcome and valued part of your family; that usually helps quite a bit when handling skittish piggies because you move from 'potential predator' into the 'giant piggy?' category.
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
 
I haven't let the kids in with her yet, I'm still giving her time to settle in 🙈 but with nugget and fluffy alike my youngest is their fave human ever 😂 probably because shes small and feeds them veg and dandilions 🙈 fluffy responds so much more to her babbling to her next to her cage than any of us! Popcorns like crazy! I sometimes think she's the animal whisperer 😂
 
Emx93 said:
I've been trying the piggy wash thing lol, nugget looked at me like I was crazy 😂😜
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It is more the ear fondling followed by stroking around her eye. This translates as 'I invite you to be a member of the group you are leading and I love and cherish you'. This method is also very effective when sorting our potential bad habits.
Who is the boss - your guinea pig or you?

The piggy wash is effective just on arrival to reassure a very skittish piggy that you are not a predator out to get her and that you actually speak her language. After that the piggies know you and find it senseless... ;)
 
Ill try the gentle eye strokes next thankyou, I've been stroking the ears and that definitely does calm her I think I read the post when we first brought her home and it was super useful, this forum is great thankyou wish idve found it a long time ago 😊
 
Betsy lurves being stroked under her left eye (strangely not her right). It's about the only thing that calms her down. She used to have VERY strong seasons and turn into PSYCHO piggy and a stroke under the eye would calm her almost instantly. Now she is middle aged (3 and a bit) you don't know when she has a season and she is just lovely all the time.
 
Sounds like fluffy (except her soft spot is under her chin) she was constantly in season so constantly psycho piggy but a chin stroke would calm her for a few moments until she was around another piggy then psycho piggy resumed 😕 but the good news is she wasn't too traumatised by yesterday she's still eating well and maintained her weight 😁
 
The really interesting part is they can hear nugget and marshmallow and they were all talking at one point 😲 they can't see the others but can hear them 😊
 
Emx93 said:
Fluffy has been happy popcorning with Princess as a neighbour, they're both eating, talking to each other, Princess is pretty chilled out and likes the tunnel or the hammock or laying next to the divide and fluffy has been zooming and popcorning all over 😊 fingers crossed for a slow bond 🤞
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That couldn't sound any more promising, actually! They wouldn't do this if they didn't like each other, to be honest!

Slow bonding doesn't mean 5 minutes meetings but only splitting them whenever you notice the dynamic taking a wrong turn or Fluffy going on overload and then restarting on another day once she's had time to calm down. If you are lucky, Ffluffy will decide that she wants to be with Princess now that she is on her home ground and is feeling less stressed.
 
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