Food insecurity and bullying

MCpiggy

MCpiggy

New Born Pup
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Hello all! I have yet to see any advice on my current issue, I am really hoping someone here can help.

My beloved Caramel was pts at home on Friday morning due to a large dental abscess in a very tricky spot. His passing left my sweet Snowflake all alone. Two days later, a family friend contacted me to take in their single male boar, since he was being neglected. The family had no idea how much to feed the little guy, and he mostly ended up with just hay in his diet. Not even pellets. I said of course I would take him in, perfect timing! It seemed like a final gift from my Caramel.

Well, the new guy has some quirks. First of all, he weighed 650g as a 1.5-2year old when we got him. Thankfully, this is up to 710g in 5 days. I jumped the gun a little and decided to try intros early since they're both bereaved pigs. It went well for a while, they slept side by side and all seemed well. Then my new pig started to bully his friend and keep him away from all the food. I have them separated now, and am switching around their cage arrangements every day so that they become more comfortable with each other's scent. I'll take the next intro VERY slowly, I won't even attempt it until he seems more confident.

Does anyone have experience with a food insecure piggy? He's flat-out mean when it comes to food, and I don't know how to let him know that I plan on feeding him regularly.
 
What exactly was he doing that was bullying?Is it that he was stopping your pig from eating at all? Was he chasing and humping without rest? How long were they in the bonding pen? How did you feed them? Did you use bowls or scatter feed?

You can’t really introduce slowly. It’s either all or nothing. Have a read of the guides below. Has the new piggy ever lived with another one?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Moody guinea pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
Oops I guess I left a lot of details out! Intros were done in a neutral zone, I did everything exactly as recommended - big open neutral space, no hidies (I started with two hidies with two exit points, but they kept hiding and not interacting so I took those away), big food pile, big hay pile.

Bonding space was fine, the issues came up when moved to their house after less than a day. New guy had pushed my older pig into a corner and was pulling hair when he tried to leave. No blood was drawn. My older pig looked terrified! Buggy eyed and stayed in a corner.

Previous to that, they stayed in the bonding space for 5 hours, and settled down/took naps side-by-side within 1 hour. The rest of the time was taken so I could fully clean out their Midwest cages and do piggy laundry. They stayed together for about a day, but when I weighed my bigger/older guy, I noticed weight had shot down and he wasn’t eating enough.

I’ve read through the guides at length, I’m more just concerned about the food insecurity thing. I’m thinking the best option is to cage/toy swap for a few weeks, gain trust about food, and try again? I know that slow introductions are not good, I would never put them through that stress over and over. What I meant was that I will leave them as neighbours for quite a while and learn as much as I can before trying again. With that said, I obviously had a massive oversight with the first experience and I do think it’s worth letting the new guy settle in, then try again in a few weeks’-a month’s time?

The new guy had a bonded since birth cagemate up until six months ago. When the mate suddenly died, the previous owners neglected him and left him without much food. I was thankfully able to take him in and am in the process of rehabing him.

It seems like there are three main issues going on:

1) new guy is dominant (normally not an issue, my guy is the submissive one)
2) new guy is not used to being fed consistently
3) new guy becomes aggressive around food (because of 2))

It’s a pretty unique and sticky situation, which is why I made a new thread. I haven’t had much luck at all finding advice for them. I have read through every post that looked like it would be of help, but couldn’t find anything. Feel free to link an old thread if it’s relevant. Thank you in advance!
 
The forcing into a corner and pulling hair doesn’t sound like a good sign. Where would you put his behaviour on the dominance scale?

When you weighed him, how much had he lost and when was the last time you had weighed him? The issue is when they decide their minds can’t be changed. I’m not sure it’s a good thing or behaviour/possibly not liking each other. How have they behaved when you swapped their bedding? I don’t know if it could be seen as an invasion of territory having another smell in their cage. I know it works for sow/boar but not sure about boars.
 
My initial thought is to keep them separate and let the new piggy settle in and realise he is going to be fed and looked after. Of course hay is the most important diet, so if he was provided with plenty of it in his old home, then that is great. Not being fed pellets isn’t a problem - there are many owners who do feed a pellet free diet. If he wasn’t even given hay often, then of course that is a different matter. If your new piggy isn’t used to veg though then do add it slowly into the diet so you don’t upset his tummy.

Once he is settled, then you can try to bond them, but of course there is always going to be the risk that they simply don’t like each other and that this isn’t actually as simple as him thinking he won’t be fed and protecting food, it may just be that they do not like each other and bullying is always going to occur - which is a relationship ending (or in this case will end it before it’s started) act.

You obviously need to keep an eye on both their weights Which it sounds like you are doing.
Has the new piggy had a vet check done?
 
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I think you're taking the right steps initially keeping them separate. He does sound underweight for his age and it's possible that his previous cage-mate prevented him from eating and he was worried about that pattern repeating itself. My latest sow arrived at 2 years old and 950g... not so bad, but her previous owner had pondered whether her old cage-mate had prevented her from eating because she seemed small to look at. I think she was right - after 3 months Flora is now 1.2 kilo and she gets plenty of exercise. I took the approach of sprinkling a few pellets especially for her on a shelf where she sat a lot (my George can't make that jump!) Now they share a bowl, but at first Flora would back off if George appeared at the bowl. He shares nicely so I wondered if she was nervous from previous experiences. You might find that when your new boy gets to know you more, gets used to the routine and fattens up a bit, he won't be so worried about resources. But even if they can't live together in the same cage it's nice to know they have each other's company through the bars x
 
I would say it's mostly normal stuff with a few moderate signs - hair pulling, showing teeth are the only two moderate things I saw. No lunging or real fighting. I separated because I realized there are much bigger problems involved, I'm a bit of a dummy for attempting intros. I got excited and this is my first not-birth bonded pair. My older guy had lost 40g in 24hr, 1520g-1480g. It went back up with one feeding alone. I completely understand that they might not get along, but I also think I set them up for failure with the first attempt! It's been an insane week between my previous boar's death and the shock of seeing how tiny and alone this little guy was. I wasn't thinking straight and wanted to get them paired up.

Swapping bedding was not an issue, both are behaving quite normally. If you dont suggest it though, I'll happily stop. I saw it recommended and figured it was worth a shot! Thank you for being kind, I'm so high strung trying to get all this right. Boys are a handful and a half, even 4 years later!

He's incredibly underweight, but also seems like he has a small build. No protruding hips/back, but skinny enough to be worried. Especially since I'm used to 1200g and 1500g boars. Thankfully he's up to 730g now, he's a great eater. I have been taking it slowly, it's mostly grass (which I knew he got, as his previous owner did take him outside), and romaine (another common one in his past life), with parsley mixed in. He also gets about a quarter corn cob for weight gain every so often.

@Free Ranger (can I tag? no idea! you guys are always my absolute last resort since I dont want to be annoying!) Thats great to hear! I'm really hoping that he settles in and finds a routine (we feed the boys dinner every afternoon at 4pm, with snacks sprinkled in if i'm cooking).

Ugh, boar drama. Never a dull moment!
 
Oh my goodness, I just realized I was answering three different people and not just one. Hopefully that answers everyones questions! Thank you for the help, it's very very appreciated!

Forgot to add - vet check is in the works! My vet is amazing and keeps emergency slots open at all times, so regular check-ups are about a two week wait in order for them to be able to do that. He was alone with no contact from other pets previous to this though, so I'm not too worried.
 
I think as a guinea-pig's number one interest is eating that if another pig prevents that it's going to cause some hang ups! Flora quickly picked up on our routine and is now both the Snack Scout and Chief Wheeker when they hear the rustle of the bag we take out to collect grass!

I had boar-neighbours at one point and put the food bowls together on each side of the bars as they seemed to like eating together at the same time. Now I have two pairs (2 don't get on) and I do the same with hay or grass so eating is still a social event 💕
4 way grass pile.webp
 
I completely agree! I'm taking a slow approach now. So happy to hear that your boys did well through bars, I'm worried that might be in my future. Hopefully my Groot (new boy) learns his routine and gets more comfortable. You can see the size difference below :( Boy do they get excited about grass though!

Your pigs are adorable! Heres a picture from when intros seemed to be going well, I love my little monsters. New guy is the Abby with the crazy hair.
IMG_8153.jpeg
 
Bonding can be stressful. Hopefully they will get on when you try again. For now they can live as neighbours. As for the bedding swap, don’t take my word for it as I’m not entirely sure on that aspect.

The new boar should hopefully reach his destined weight with a good diet. Remember it’s also about heft. They come in all shapes and sizes and he may end up being on the petite side. Lots and lots of hay.
 
Siikibam said:
Bonding can be stressful. Hopefully they will get on when you try again. For now they can live as neighbours. As for the bedding swap, don’t take my word for it as I’m not entirely sure on that aspect.

The new boar should hopefully reach his destined weight with a good diet. Remember it’s also about heft. They come in all shapes and sizes and he may end up being on the petite side. Lots and lots of hay.
Click to expand...

I’m on it! He eats hay by the pound, I swear! Little guy wants to eat, just never got the chance. Luckily he did get lots of hay in his past life. I’m pretty sure he has a small frame to begin with, but 650g is still much too small.

Thanks for the help! I think I’m all set and more confident in the decisions I have made/will make.
 
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