For Those With Guinea Pigs Who Have /have Had Bladder Stones

[TAN]

I took Bumble off to my piggy specialist vet Rachael Mowbray at Vale vets today for a post op check up after having his large lump removed and to decide what to do with his on-going bumblefoot ,which is only on the 1 paw now and very mild.It turns out the mass removed had metastasised in a short time and was cancerous a fatty sarcoma- so we will have to keep an eye on him and see if the lump returns.As Bumble still has squeeky wees she has now put him on 0.7ml potassium citrate twice a day.
Interestingly she says that there is a product that is used for humans that helps stop stones forming (not sure if it is just bladder stones or kidney stones - will find out ).but it comes in tablet form,so it is notoriously difficult to grind it down and make it into a medicine suitable for a guinea pig - she says she has however got the instructions / recipe for doing this from America and so will be able to make some up for me in a few days (again I am assuming that it will be in the form of an oral suspension) - obviously it is not licenced for use in guinea pigs,but then not much is - I will let you know what it is called ,what it is and how much it costs,how it is administered when I get hold of it - and if anyone is interested my vet has said she is happy to pass the information on to anyone else's vets -
On another note I asked about the contraceptive implant that she is trialling in one of her guinea pigs (a boar - even though it can also be used in a sow ) she says it is injected under the skin like microchipping ,sometimes if the pig is a bit on the skinny side she said a whiff of gas might be needed - the implant costs £80 and lasts 6 months so for the likes of you and me not financially viable,and as yet it is not known what the failure rate is / would be in guinea pigs (in her case she says it doesnt matter as she would keep any babies if a pregnancy did occur) - they are however successfull in rats!

 

[lauraboara]

Hi - I think you bamboozled us by having cancer, mystery stones treatment and contraceptive implants all in one post . Must have been one heck of a consultation.

Seriously, hope that Bumble continues to do Ok after lump removal. One of mine had a rapidly growing sarcoma removed in the autumn and he is doing really well now - touch wood.
I would be interested to hear about the treatment regarding stones so please let u know if you find out more about it. Personally I am a bit sceptical about potassium citrate as it appeared to do diddly squat for my bladder stone pig but there are so many factors to consider so it is hard to tell. And to be honest we don't want twin pigs with stones to test which methods work (!) but it does feel as though there is so much to learn in this area.

 

[Elwickcavies]

I'm sure there are lots of people on here who would be interested in the meds to stop stone formation, including me (I recently lost my beloved Milkshake to post-op complications from a bladder stone). It wouldn't have helped him, but for pigs with recurrent problems it could be a real breakthrough!

 

[TAN]

Yes - my head was spinning after speaking to my vet - but she really does go the extra mile for me and Bumble - she also got 6mls of blood out of the blood blister on one of his wife pigs bottom for me as well (it's all going on in our household) - as soon as she calls me and I can collect the medicine I will let you know.Great to hear your sarcoma piggy is still going strong - hope it will be the same with my Bumble.

 

[TAN]

Bumble was back at the vets today - more squeeky wees despite being on metacam - so a concious x-ray done (nothing found) also
His new medication has been made up for him (the one to help / stop the stones developing ) it is called Moduretic 50mg x 10 - used in humans (and dogs from what I can see on Google ) and for various things - comes in tablet form but my vet has ground it down and it is now in suspension form (she got the recipie / instructions from the States ) it can't be pricey as I have a bottle the size of a big asprin bottle and my whole vet bill only came to £67 and that included follow up consultation,concious x-ray and these new meds- he needs 0.2ml twice a day for 4 weeks to start - so if any one is interested their vet needs to contact Rachael Mowbray at Vale Vets in Dursley - I will let you know how we get on over the next few weeks and if it also stops the squeeky wees.

 

[Mudpuppy]

Interesting... my vet mentioned something that my pig could take to prevent the formation of stones but we never got that far sadly. Never found out what it would have been...may have been the same?! I wish someone would look into/invest into this area as it seems to be quite a big problem.. I've lost two to stones now (and mine were still squeaking on metacam too) despite the vet checking their diets etc and agreeing that they seemed to have ideal diets/living conditions very frustrating when you don't know what else you can do to prevent it

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I always thought the composition of human stones was very different to those that guinea pigs form, so therefore human medications won't work for piggy stones. I may be totally wrong, but seem to remember being told this many years ago.

 

[TAN]

I don't know - I can see from google that this medication is used for dogs and is used for several different things in humans- but as my vet has been amazing and has piggies of her own and does quite a bit of research and went to the trouble of getting the recipe / instructions from the states for me it's worth a try, as he has had a kidney stone and two bladder stone ops, ultrasounds CT scan x-ray today with no sign of stones -( checked for sludge when he had his lump removed )- urine tested today no sign of inflammation or discomfort when palpating him and he is still crying when weeing despite being on metacam septrin and potasium citrate I'll try anything if it helps prevent things forming - but time will tell.

 

[flintstones]

As he's compromised previously with stones and still squeaks when urinating perhaps a stronger pain killer will help. Having seen Tramadol work first hand it really is amazing. Pen has went from eating nothing to first up for food.

What kidney stone operation did your little one have. Was it the kidneys themselves or the uretre?

I'll be interested to see the results from this new medicine your trying.

 

[TAN]

I read about your Penfold being on Tramadol and forgot to ask the vet about it with everything else going on! Have got to go back in 4 weeks for another x-ray and see if the meds he is now on have stopped the squeeking - but I might pop in and see his other vet Iain (who referred me to Rachael in the first place ) and see if it can be given along side all the other meds he is taking.

Bumble didn't have an operation for his kidney stone - Rachael told me to syringe feed him a couple of mls of fizzy water daily for 4 weeks in the hope the gas in the water would help push the stone through - must have worked as next time he had an x ray stone had gone

 

[flintstones]

That's very lucky, I was thinking for my Pen. Not an option for us as there's just so many kidney stones even in the uretre. The vet did say we could remove the fully dysfunctional kidney but the other kidney is compromised so I don't see how it would extend his life as his other kidney will fail anyway. The vet agreed surgery wasn't and option he would elect for either.

I do also believe Tramadol is better for the kidneys as I was advised not to give loxicom due to Pen's significantly reduced kidney function.

 

[Tbag]

I do also believe Tramadol is better for the kidneys as I was advised not to give loxicom due to Pen's significantly reduced kidney function.

Yes we were told this with Mr T too, and he responded very well to it. I think some vets can be a bit hesitant as its an opiate but it seems to be becoming more and more standard to prescribe to piggys who really need something stronger.

 

[TAN]

Thanks Jo I will give Rachael a call and ask about Tramadol instead of metacam.

 

[flintstones]

I know when I was first prescribed it by a dog vet for my P, he said he thought I would be fine as it's used on dogs all the time.

When I later went back to my pig vet, he was apprehensive but after seeing the results with my P. He continued to prescribe it and even said to me it wasn't something he would have used previously as opiates can slow gut movement. Even the vets are learning, it's amazing how well tolerated it is.

 

[Elwickcavies]

I always thought the composition of human stones was very different to those that guinea pigs form, so therefore human medications won't work for piggy stones. I may be totally wrong, but seem to remember being told this many years ago.

I did a bit of research on this and you are correct in that almost all guinea pig stones are calcium carbonate, whereas human stones are usually calcium oxalate. However, the drug we are talking about here is a type of diuretic that reduces the amount of calcium in the urine so that the stones are less likely to be able to form regardless of whether they are carbonate or oxalate. Interestingly, when I was looking at risk factors for human forming stones, one of the risks was a low calcium diet (yes LOW). It then went on to say that this may be because calcium binds oxalate in the blood and so reduces the amount in the urine - it's probably irrelevent to pigs are they don't really form oxalate stones.

Anyway, the upshot of all that is that this drug may well be what we are looking for with prevention. Please let us know how you get on @TAN !

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I did a bit of research on this and you are correct in that almost all guinea pig stones are calcium carbonate, whereas human stones are usually calcium oxalate. However, the drug we are talking about here is a type of diuretic that reduces the amount of calcium in the urine so that the stones are less likely to be able to form regardless of whether they are carbonate or oxalate. Interestingly, when I was looking at risk factors for human forming stones, one of the risks was a low calcium diet (yes LOW). It then went on to say that this may be because calcium binds oxalate in the blood and so reduces the amount in the urine - it's probably irrelevent to pigs are they don't really form oxalate stones.

Anyway, the upshot of all that is that this drug may well be what we are looking for with prevention. Please let us know how you get on @TAN !

That's interesting! Thanks for that! I will have a chat with Simon about it next week, when he returns from holiday x

 

[TAN]

I have to take Bumble back in 4 weeks for an a concious x-ray and check up - I have been told to give him 0.2mls of the Moduretic twice a day for four weeks and then reduce it down to once a day - he is also on 0.07 potassium citrate twice a day & 0.5ml septrin twice a day (for the bumblefoot which is nearly all clear) 0.2ml metacam twice a day and cystophan in with his filtered water (if he was a human and he was on tablets he would rattle) - haven't heard any squeeky wees this evening yet!

 

[flintstones]

Is Bumble a good drinker, I'd be inclined to try and increase his drinking if he isn't?

 

[TAN]

Yes - he is a good drinker.

 

[Kerrie74]

I've spoken to Rachel via email, she's really nice and seems really knowledgeable where guinea's are concerned. Sadly for me I live over 100 miles away from the surgery so I'm not able to go and see her with my guinea's

 

[TAN]

I've spoken to Rachel via email, she's really nice and seems really knowledgeable where guinea's are concerned. Sadly for me I live over 100 miles away from the surgery so I'm not able to go and see her with my guinea's

Yes,she is brilliant - she must be super organised as she had a baby last year,has 24 pets,including guineas and a skunk called peanut, is the official team vet for the kennel clubs Team GB dog agility team,has her own agility dog (I think he is retired now - but won a bronze medal for for team GB in Helsinki ) - runs the pet rehab centre, and is doing another post graduate degree in soft tissue surgery - puts my time management to shame! - if I can't get an appointment for Bumble with her because she is booked up I can drop him in to the vets and she will make time to come and examine during her lunch break or drive up from the rehab centre to check him out and I then pick him up after work at the end of the day - I am very lucky my local vet (who is also great) referred me to her.

 

[Kerrie74]

I know about the pets, I saw a page with information about her We need someone like Rachel in Nottingham!