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FOUR new bladder stones advice

rlsf

Junior Guinea Pig
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Could REALLY use some input/personal experience-🙏

•RECURRING BLADDER STONES•
&
•DENTAL DISEASE•

My 5 year old feisty boy Pablo Picasso had a cystotomy last September when he was simultaneously diagnosed with dental disease and has had frequent anesthetized dental work done since-only has 3 incisors now and a 65-75% rotting lower left 3rd molar.
He JUST had anesthetized dental again 8/25 where two new stones were discovered in an X-ray… and today he now has FOUR STONES. 😩
Insurance is changing on Nov 1 and I just don’t know what to do. Do we put him through one more bladder stone surgery? We did go an entire year without them after his first cystotomy… but he literally grew 2 new stones in 2 weeks.
His spirit is strong. He’s on pain meds as well as meds to promote the passing of them, as they’re very small…but clearly it isnt working and he’s growing more.
I’m just at a loss and i am on standby nearby while he gets an ultrasound at our vet right now.
Thought I could see what others think?
Here is a side by side comparison of his stones progression in just 2 weeks
He eats happily, socializes, plays etc… what do we doooo? I hate this so much.
 

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Hi

I am so very sorry about his health issues.

Stones forming that quickly means that that something either in his diet where the phosphorus:calcium:potassium balance could be just out of whack or his complex calcium absorption process has gone haywire for some reason. Either is possible. The second is the one that often results in very quick growing stones. I am not sure where the stones are actually rather in awkward inglenook that piggies have in the urethra or in the bladder, which is usually a bit higher up - but then I am just an owner without any medical training.
Unfortunately, all we have is diet, which is a very clumsy and slow tool. :(
 
Done early he could recover from the op and be fine after a period of recovery. Would you have no insurance as it's an existing condition? He does seem to be a strong piggy who recovers well from anaesthetic. I hope things will be OK for him ❤
 
Thank you so much for your ongoing prompt replies whenever I post.
We just had an ultrasound and it is showing two in the bladder. Since we saw 4 on X-ray… not sure where the rest are? Apparently they have accessory sex organs -like two funnels branching off with a pocket at the end(I think that’s how my vet described it, but I also took in a ton of info on both of my special needs boys today and my brain is a bit fuzzy) that they could also be hidden in.
We aren’t having surgery today, but will be scheduling it in the next 4-5 weeks if we can’t get them to pass.
In the meantime we will be doing SQ fluid flushes 3x a week along with the Prazosin, Bethanicol to see if they move through and are eliminated.
For diet, I try very hard to include the simple things you created diet wise for cystitis/stone prone piggies. I also soak his veggies with bottled water. He and my other boy eat vary similarly and in separate locations every night, so I know they are not hoarding one veggie over the other.
They have 5 filled bottles throughout their “mansion” of fresh bottled water changed out every 24 hours. I do wonder if the frequent stress from occasional travel boarding and anesthetized dentals/vet visits along with his age have instigated new stones?
I also have learned how over supplementation of vit c can cause them which I limited since reading about here last year.
It’s a bit of a catch 22, because with dental surgeries and when on antibiotics, he is supposed to get extra vit c, although I actually only give half the supplemental amount than told as we live in the states. You’ve mentioned on here how US is more prone to vets overprescribing Vit C…

Generally, I do EVERYTHING I can for my babies, and will continue to until I know I enough is enough.
I’m leaning toward Surgery as our next course of action if these stones don’t pass, then, if more reoccur, palliative care will be final. What would you do as a pet owner if it were yours? I’m always interested in other well versed parents perspectives.

Goodness, I sure wish they could live forever health issue free. ♥️

Hi

I am so very sorry about his health issues.

Stones forming that quickly means that that something either in his diet where the phosphorus:calcium:potassium balance could be just out of whack or his complex calcium absorption process has gone haywire for some reason. Either is possible. The second is the one that often results in very quick growing stones. I am not sure where the stones are actually rather in awkward inglenook that piggies have in the urethra or in the bladder, which is usually a bit higher up - but then I am just an owner without any medical training.
Unfortunately, all we have is diet, which is a very clumsy and slow tool. :(
 
I do think that if he cannot pass these with 4 weeks of SQ fluids 3x weekly we will proceed with another surgery.
Insurance written wording is white confusing as they are no longer continuing with the plan (that’s across the board for everyone here in California with Nationwide). I couldn’t quite tell if the new ultra crappy plan will even make it worth it to have or if they are considering any condition current as preexisting in the next implemented plan. I will be calling tomorrow to clarify. But essentially, they’re saying they will only cover up to 3k a year and pay “maybe” 50% of that. I’m over here like, I pay 3-5k per visit and I’m there ALLLLLLL of the time. Ayayayyy. My very expensive little angel monsters. They rule my world and are my heart.
Done early he could recover from the op and be fine after a period of recovery. Would you have no insurance as it's an existing condition? He does seem to be a strong piggy who recovers well from anaesthetic. I hope things will be OK for him ❤
 
Thank you so much for your ongoing prompt replies whenever I post.
We just had an ultrasound and it is showing two in the bladder. Since we saw 4 on X-ray… not sure where the rest are? Apparently they have accessory sex organs - like two funnels branching off with a pocket at the end(I think that’s how my vet described it, but I also took in a ton of info on both of my special needs boys today and my brain is a bit fuzzy) that they could also be hidden in.
We aren’t having surgery today, but will be scheduling it in the next 4-5 weeks if we can’t get them to pass.
In the meantime we will be doing SQ fluid flushes 3x a week along with the Prazosin, Bethanicol to see if they move through and are eliminated.
For diet, I try very hard to include the simple things you created diet wise for cystitis/stone prone piggies. I also soak his veggies with bottled water. He and my other boy eat vary similarly and in separate locations every night, so I know they are not hoarding one veggie over the other.
They have 5 filled bottles throughout their “mansion” of fresh bottled water changed out every 24 hours. I do wonder if the frequent stress from occasional travel boarding and anesthetized dentals/vet visits along with his age have instigated new stones?
I also have learned how over supplementation of vit c can cause them which I limited since reading about here last year.
It’s a bit of a catch 22, because with dental surgeries and when on antibiotics, he is supposed to get extra vit c, although I actually only give half the supplemental amount than told as we live in the states. You’ve mentioned on here how US is more prone to vets overprescribing Vit C…

Generally, I do EVERYTHING I can for my babies, and will continue to until I know I enough is enough.
I’m leaning toward Surgery as our next course of action if these stones don’t pass, then, if more reoccur, palliative care will be final. What would you do as a pet owner if it were yours? I’m always interested in other well versed parents perspectives.

Goodness, I sure wish they could live forever health issue free. ♥️

You are certainly doing everything you can as an owner.

The combination of dental issues and stones is extremely difficult to manage and there are at some point limits, financial, medical and care-wise that you will reach. It can be that one of the stones is actually more cigar-shaped and just showing up differently. I've also had a stone visible on an x-ray but when the booked operation came around, the bleep or stone had disappeared so Terfel returned home with a shaved but intact belly... :(
However, how to go forward and the pros and cons re. operating or not in view of his dental issues, age and fitness etc. is something you need to discuss with your vet. You could ask your clinic whether you can book a (paid) consultation over the phone with your vet to have the time to discuss it so you have the necessary medical background information on which to base any decisions.

Please be aware that the UK is mainly a hard water country whereas the USA and Canada are mainly soft water countries, so our calcium and diet recommendations may be a bit on the low side for you, which can also lead to calcium pees and occasionally stones. It is about finding the perfect balance for yourself in your personal location. The individual variables from water intake, pellet brands, available veg and hay vary. Any changes will take weeks to filter through the body and become fully effective. However, the stone formation process itself can be disturbed and there is not much we can do about that. :(

As to vitamin C: if you supplement, best do it as 2 week long booster courses so the body doesn't accustom to the higher levels and ignores them as its new normal.
This doesn't matter so much anymore in terminal cases as long term scurvy symptom slump concerns are no longer relevant.


You are not quite there yet but you are coming up towards the line where you may have to make some tough decisions, and - as you love and care deeply - of course you worry; and very rightly so. It is a daunting emotional maze that you are about to enter, after all. :(

Usually, you feel bad and guilty in yourself, just for being in that position. We humans are wired to seek any peceived 'fault' within ourselves although there is no reason for you to do so - you are after all trying your best. You are not expected to get everything right, unless you put yourself into that particular corner. Your own life, children and pets are an ongoing learning process where learning from mistakes is an important part of.
Of course you don't want to loose any piggies of yours in the first place but at the same time you also want to get things absolutely right for them; these are very conflicting emotions that happen all at once and can make you feel overwhelmed, disorientated or even paralysed. .

You have to be aware that your grieving process doesn't start with the death; it starts with the moment you realise that a beloved one - pet, human or even yourself - may not make it and that their time is limited. This is what you experience now and why you feel you need somebody what to do. The onset is always one of the very worst times.

There is no right or wrong within an area where it is very obviously too soon and equally obviously too late. Practicalities play as much of a role as your very personal feelings and the nature of the individual bond. If you listen to your heart of hearts and go with that, this will also take you to the centre of the maze and out again.
It is never getting any less painful although over time you know where you'd draw your personal line so you do not have to go through the whole process all over again but you still have to judge each case on its own merits. Generally you will know the day your piggy has lost their zest for life and has had enough. Whether to operate or not in a make or break setting is another scenario that can seriously throw you.

We cannot make those decisions for you - that is both the privilege and at the same the burden of ownership - but what we can do is give you the instruments at hand so you can work out for yourself where you stand and where you draw your lines for yourself and for that specific piggy/pet.
This will then help you make your own decisions with a clearer mind and, as a consequence, you'll hopefully suffer less from self-doubts and feelings of failure and guilt in the longer term. The pain is unfortunately never any less because every bond is unique but we can help you make the best of any remaining time.

I never like linking in these two links of course but you may find that they address lots of aspects currently going through your head or that you cannot express yet. I have tried my best to keep them as practical as possible and to avoid glossing over the sticky points where you need a steadying hand the most.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Operation or Terminal Care/Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsight

We now have a new dedicated End of Life and Bereavement Support Corner where we provide ongoing personalised community support for those that wish it. Since we are not part of social media, we can let threads run for as long as needed but we ask our members to please bookmark any support threads so we can keep each case to one single thread - it helps both sides, especially over longer periods.
But we are a friendly place which cares as much about the owners as we do about our piggies. We've done it for quite some time but this does formalise it a bit more. There is a need for a place where important questions can be asked and discussed in a mutually respectful way and where a helping hand/ear during a time of real distress can make a big difference.
End of Life and Bereavement Support Corner

I hope that this will help you?
 
You are certainly doing everything you can as an owner.

The combination of dental issues and stones is extremely difficult to manage and there are at some point limits, financial, medical and care-wise that you will reach. It can be that one of the stones is actually more cigar-shaped and just showing up differently. I've also had a stone visible on an x-ray but when the booked operation came around, the bleep or stone had disappeared so Terfel returned home with a shaved but intact belly... :(
However, how to go forward and the pros and cons re. operating or not in view of his dental issues, age and fitness etc. is something you need to discuss with your vet. You could ask your clinic whether you can book a (paid) consultation over the phone with your vet to have the time to discuss it so you have the necessary medical background information on which to base any decisions.

Please be aware that the UK is mainly a hard water country whereas the USA and Canada are mainly soft water countries, so our calcium and diet recommendations may be a bit on the low side for you, which can also lead to calcium pees and occasionally stones. It is about finding the perfect balance for yourself in your personal location. The individual variables from water intake, pellet brands, available veg and hay vary. Any changes will take weeks to filter through the body and become fully effective. However, the stone formation process itself can be disturbed and there is not much we can do about that. :(

As to vitamin C: if you supplement, best do it as 2 week long booster courses so the body doesn't accustom to the higher levels and ignores them as its new normal.
This doesn't matter so much anymore in terminal cases as long term scurvy symptom slump concerns are no longer relevant.


You are not quite there yet but you are coming up towards the line where you may have to make some tough decisions, and - as you love and care deeply - of course you worry; and very rightly so. It is a daunting emotional maze that you are about to enter, after all. :(

Usually, you feel bad and guilty in yourself, just for being in that position. We humans are wired to seek any peceived 'fault' within ourselves although there is no reason for you to do so - you are after all trying your best. You are not expected to get everything right, unless you put yourself into that particular corner. Your own life, children and pets are an ongoing learning process where learning from mistakes is an important part of.
Of course you don't want to loose any piggies of yours in the first place but at the same time you also want to get things absolutely right for them; these are very conflicting emotions that happen all at once and can make you feel overwhelmed, disorientated or even paralysed. .

You have to be aware that your grieving process doesn't start with the death; it starts with the moment you realise that a beloved one - pet, human or even yourself - may not make it and that their time is limited. This is what you experience now and why you feel you need somebody what to do. The onset is always one of the very worst times.

There is no right or wrong within an area where it is very obviously too soon and equally obviously too late. Practicalities play as much of a role as your very personal feelings and the nature of the individual bond. If you listen to your heart of hearts and go with that, this will also take you to the centre of the maze and out again.
It is never getting any less painful although over time you know where you'd draw your personal line so you do not have to go through the whole process all over again but you still have to judge each case on its own merits. Generally you will know the day your piggy has lost their zest for life and has had enough. Whether to operate or not in a make or break setting is another scenario that can seriously throw you.

We cannot make those decisions for you - that is both the privilege and at the same the burden of ownership - but what we can do is give you the instruments at hand so you can work out for yourself where you stand and where you draw your lines for yourself and for that specific piggy/pet.
This will then help you make your own decisions with a clearer mind and, as a consequence, you'll hopefully suffer less from self-doubts and feelings of failure and guilt in the longer term. The pain is unfortunately never any less because every bond is unique but we can help you make the best of any remaining time.

I never like linking in these two links of course but you may find that they address lots of aspects currently going through your head or that you cannot express yet. I have tried my best to keep them as practical as possible and to avoid glossing over the sticky points where you need a steadying hand the most.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Operation or Terminal Care/Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsight

We now have a new dedicated End of Life and Bereavement Support Corner where we provide ongoing personalised community support for those that wish it. Since we are not part of social media, we can let threads run for as long as needed but we ask our members to please bookmark any support threads so we can keep each case to one single thread - it helps both sides, especially over longer periods.
But we are a friendly place which cares as much about the owners as we do about our piggies. We've done it for quite some time but this does formalise it a bit more. There is a need for a place where important questions can be asked and discussed in a mutually respectful way and where a helping hand/ear during a time of real distress can make a big difference.
End of Life and Bereavement Support Corner

I hope that this will help you?
You’re an angel and everything you just wrote brought me to tears.
Comforting tears. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for such thorough information and empathy. It does, indeed, bring me closer to aligning the practicality with the emotional.
I have read and will re-read, I’m sure, many a times, these links you’ve attached. 🙏
 
♥️🙏 thank you so much! I’ll take a hug for myself and will give the rest to Pablo Picasso, even though he hates being touched. 🤣
Also try the Calcium Balancing RIFE frequency
- YouTube

and these bladder healing ones too:
- YouTube
- YouTube

There are also dental healing frequencies you can try too, just have a read of some of the comments/testimonials on each one and you will see that these frequencies do really work, on people AND animals! 🙏 🙏 🙏

You do need to play these through speakers obviously, I think phone speakers are ok, but I'm not sure!

Best of luck!
 
Sorry I meant to edit my last post and add these 'fingers crossed' emojis on to that, but for some reason they went into this new comment box instead! 😒
🤞🤞🤞

Was also going to add, those frequencies are free to try, so nothing to lose! 😉
 
Hi friends- I am not sure if I’m doing this correctly, but I wanted to update Pablo’s health on this post for those who have been supportive and so helpful in their replies.

We have a “potential surgery” appointment tomorrow. We spent this past month attempting 3x weekly 30 mL subcutaneous flushing to try and pass these small stones. Unfortunately, I could not handle this alone at home, so took him to the kindest vet techs nearby as our vet is a good 90 minutes away. He did well for two weeks, but I will say, as they aren’t exotic specialists, he began to get very stressed, sometimes not getting full amount of fluids … and patches of hair were being pulled out during treatments. I made the decision this past 9 days not to proceed with stressful injections.
Tomorrow, we may have a very in depth surgery appointment depending on what we see(cystotomy + tumor removal + molar trim)

I feel Pablo has so much gusto left
In him, and am open to one more bladder stone surgery before making a higher and much more permanent end of life decision. I did not mention previously that he also has a (as far as we know benign) perineal sac tumor that has grown over the last 18 months, and will also be removed. Lastly, with his advanced dental disease, our vet may do a dental trim. Again- all depending, but tomorrow morning is our appointment (pacific time zone in USA). I will touch base in the morning with more info. Please wish us luck! 🙏🙏🙏
 
Thank you all for your love and well wishes! It means the absolute world to us.
Pablo Picasso is going in for surgery in the next 90 minutes or so. My brave, beautiful little angel.
Mama is nervous, but I feel right about this decision. Dad is on his way to give Pablo a big hug before he goes under and to keep me and Salvador Dali company while we wait!
I’m sure I’ll be on here lots over the next few weeks. ♥️🙏.

I’ll also be starting a separate thread on Salvador Dali and all of his current health trials and tribulations.
 
Morning how did Pablo's surgery go? 🙏
hi! Thank you for asking!

Pablo’s surgery was successful, and he is home w us now. Today was an insanely long day. We shall see how he handles. His growth was removed inside his anal sack, and he has two layers of stitches there. One layer deep within, then the surface stitches- the surface ones will be removed in 10-14 days.
I’m very nervous about how that will workout over the next few weeks while he passes stool through it.

There were only two stones found within. It looks like instead of 4 there were 3 in there and one of them passed this past month.
The other two needed to come out as she was worried they would lodge in his urethra at this point. The stitches for that wound will dissolve over time.

He is munching a bit if I put hay right in front of him and ate some veggies in his little Guineadad tunneled sleeping bag area- but won’t drink at all right now or really move much. I draped a few extra fleeces over his hidey area to keep him cozy.

I’m so nervous to pick him up too much because he is so fragile and is NOT easy like my other boy!
We did some critical care about an hour ago along with his night meds. I am going to try and get a few hours of sleep as it is after midnight here and I have been going since 6 am! Hopefully he will drink some while I rest. I did add extra water to the critical care so he would get some extra hydration with it.

🙏
 
Pablo update:
So far, impressed is an understatement! My little boy is truly incredible.

Honestly, aside from obviously peeing blood (normal for now post surgery) and for being a bit underweight, he is just the bravest boy alive and you wouldn’t know what he just went through by how he’s acting! He is gradually getting his normal behaviorisms back- eating and drinking, albeit a bit less than usual- but just wanted to provide a 36 hour post-op update.
Not shown in this photo are the stitches and wound inside his pocket from the tumor removal, which we are cleaning twice daily with very diluted betadine (to a weak tea color) via oral syringe gently squirting a tiny amount in- so as not to pull apart his stitches inside. Disinfecting this area right now is important since he is passing feces over the incision all day.
But here is his brave battle wound from his second cystotomy.
 

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