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Fungal - are there any treatments which don't require sitting and plucking hair?

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Suzy! sorry to come back and basically beg you for advice, but we seem to have had a relapse in the piggies :(

on caramel, pictured above, the hair regrowth which was healthy now comes out very easily, squeeler has lost even more fur but the rest of my boars seem to be slightly better, same with the other sows but still flaky.

the F10 arrived and i've given all the cages a good scrub out and a hefty spray with it at 1:250 as recommended on the bottle and left it to soak into the wood and dry naturally (also on the bottle, but recommended for hard surfaces rather than porous)
If i have enough spare housing at the moment
i've been thinking i could scrub them out completely with bleach, rinse really well with the hose, leave them to dry for at least a day, wash again, then re-spray with F10 to make absolutely sure i'd done all i could for the cages, but is there much point before they start to show improvement again?

i've also swapped to F10 shampoo as a preventative for the rabbits who aren't showing symptoms as they soak up imaverol like a sponge
(the one i know had the problem on his ears is still receiving imaverol dips though as he lives below a piggy)

would it be worth getting another bottle of imaverol to see of it helps on a second round or should i bite the bullet, beg borrow and steal to go see the vet about it? i can't decide, and i'll need to order the imaverol tonight (though even if i didn;t use it, it would be handy to have around in case the dog DOES pick something up)

I know it's harsh on their systems, but Itrafungol has given me excellent results with Clarabel a few years back, unbeknownst to me as well, at the time i was treating her with it she was pregnant, and all three of her pups were born healthy.

but at £34 for a 52ml bottle, which i'd be giving 1ml per day per piggy (10ml per day) would work out really really expensive for a 2 week course, but if guaranteed to work, i don't think i'd mind being completely skint until 2013 but it's even if my vet would prescribe it. (Does anyone near York have any experience with Tower vets? i've only ever had to take one of my pigs to the vet before once, for some eye drops following a hay poke, they were really pushy to remove his eye, but it wasn't bothering him whatsoever, it's sunken and basically not an eye any more these days but he's a happy chunky boar)

my sister has offered to front me the money for it just go get the problem hopefully sorted as soon as possible as my mum is going spare with me taking over her kitchen every day for hours on end to dip the piggies.
I know Battleflats is a good practice nearby for piggies, but i don't drive and taking a fungal piggy all that way on the bus isn't really practical or fair! i hate the bus at the best of times myself, never mind being a piggy in a box on a bus

Mum is also completely ignoring the disease control measures i put in place
one of which was NOT letting the dog out into the back garden until this is sorted and i've given it a good spray with jayes fluid/bleach - she's been getting up and letting him out there first thing on a morning before i've woken up the entire time i've been treating the piggies. now i'm worried he might have picked it up and dragged it all though the house - he goes everywhere too, the sofas & our beds included.
so everything i've done just seems like it has just been pointless.
i wonder how happy she'd be about having to replace all her carpets and furnishings because he "looked sad"! grrrr

she just seems to be completely clueless - complaining as well about me bleaching the kitchen floor nightly as it's not going her grouting any good apparently, but i can't honestly just give it a quick wipe with flash cleaner then leave it for my 9 month old niece to crawl around on

Getting really stressed and disheartened again with it all :(
so much work!
 
I know its really frustrating but try to hang in there. Don't give up on the F10 as you have only just started using it.

I am sure Suzy et al will advice on use of a further batch of imaverol or other options.

You are over 50 posts now so I will PM you about vets near York - I have had experience with Tower vets and Battleflatts. I just need to deal with my squabbling children but will be in touch soon!
 
Hi Pandora - sorry I've been busy out in the pig shed all day and not caught your latest post. Give me a ring a the rescue in the morning and we'll have a chat about the next step. 01639 721127.

Suzy x
 
Thank you Suzy, very much, especially for volunteering your time to speak to me but i have a phobia of being on the phone :(
i don't want you to think i'm being ungrateful by not calling

i feel really silly about it now, it should be the easiest thing in the world to do, but i get really het up and nervous, i'm so sorry
 
Back from the vet...

I went to the vets this evening

not my usual vet as a friend basically just suggested we go to a walk-in surgery she uses as they don't charge a consultation fee (though this turned out to be incorrect, but in her defence, he has never charged her one for her dog.)

I only took squeeler in with me who is an absolute state, but before i even took him out of his box, i sat the imaverol, easimec & F10 disinfectant on the table to explain what i've been using, he said "ringworm"
now i'm not entirely sure it is ringworm, but it *did* fluoresce under a UV light.

i don't like to talk down about people. but he seemed like a massive butthole!
immediately saying that topical ivermectin "doesn't work" as mites are becoming resistant for it and the injections are better, and that Imaverol also doesn't work! not sure then how the affected rabbits condition improved. rolleyes

in the end he would give me griesofluvin tablets, or itrafungol liquid.
tablets and guinea pigs? how does that even work?
griso was only around£10 cheaper than itra, so i went for that as the piggies are really good with taking fluids from a syringe.
so i'm back at home now, £78 down and given very little advice.

i specifically told him that the rabbits have been sharing the same runs, but he said nothing about what to do with them (i'm going to bath them with F10 shampoo, but that's beside the point, he should have told me what to do about them, surely as they could just re-infect the piggies?)

so the itrafungol. dose rate of "half a ml per kg as directed"
with scribbles on the label saying "7 on 7 off 7 on 7 off" or at least that's what i think it says.

in the consultation though, he told me that .25 of a ml was his recommended dose, he never told me whether this was once a day, twice a day or for what weight of piggy... i thought the dosage was 0.5ml (this is what Clarabel had a few years ago) on mentioning this to him, he just said "we've had good results with lower dosage."
and said to me i should weigh the pigs, this was as he handed me my very poorly scribbled receipt after i'd paid.

As you may be able to tell, i'm really, REALLY confused.
i'm going to see if i can have a chat with my usual vets tomorrow just to see if they will help me. I should have just gone there first, as the consult fee i ended up paying was higher than my usual vets fees. :(

i felt absolutely sick on the way home. £78 is just crazy, i'm not even sure that i have enough itrafungol to treat them all, but had i got a prescription for it from him and ordered the drugs online, i would have only saved £4, so buying it from him, while i didn't really want to line his pocket, was just easier.

Having to tell my mum how much it was when i got in was horrendous.
i got really upset and ended up having a panic attack :/

and i really now dislike this vet! he seems to be really just... terrible. he was handling squeeler with his bare hands, picking through his fur, then he scratched his own head straight after!

part of me really hopes he gets scalp ringworm. which is quite cruel, but still :p

what got me as well was squeeler shed fur onto his table, which he didn't wipe before we left the room. nor did he go back to do it before inviting a chap and his two dogs through from the waiting room - what kind of disease control measures are those?
after today my friend is seriously considering switching practices as she noticed that he didn't listen at all or offer any real advice, babbling on about basically nothing

i certainly won't be a repeat customer there.
 
Phewww - that sounds a rather stressful visit.

ok - Itrafungol, dose at 0.5ml per kilo is correct, once daily. If you need help calculating the dose just PM it the pigs weight and I'll help. So 7 days on, 7 days off the meds, another 7 on and 7 off again.

If you are at all unsure of the instructions that the vet gave you please check them again with them. Just avoid shaking hands with them again, :^-

Suzy x
 
it was an awful experience.
And thank you Suzy :)
i'll get them weighed tomorrow, if i'm honest it's not something i routinely do as i don't have the equipment, i'm going to have to try perching them onto some old kitchen scales(!)
i've got them ready in the pantry for tomorrow,
it was beginning to get dark when i got back from the vet so there was no sense trying to start the treatment today (as much as i'd want to to get this sorted out soon as possible.)


just once a day is fine then?
or should i give two half doses 12 hours apart?

with Clarabel, she was on 0.5ml every 12 hours (8am and 8pm specifically) for 14 days straight and she was nowhere near 2kg in weight! :...
i've been panicking that i'd need 1ml per day per piggy, based on that experience
maybe i will have enough with just one 52ml bottle then, that's a relief :)
(how on earth clarabels pups were okay when born is really, really beyond me now, using Ivermectin on her, Chrissies products, daktarin, iodine tincture - what a piggy she is to stand up to all that :red)

i think i will go and see if my own vet will have an off the record chat with me tomorrow about the dosage though, really should have just gone there first.
The vet i saw today was horrendous to talk to, i really don't want to go back to him. ever. but at least he let us wash out hands before we left.
hope he remembers to wash his before he goes for a tinkle... :x
i also want to check if the rabbits will need anything special doing too, whether they think the shampoo will be a good enough preventative, i'll be popping in for the dogs wormers anyway so i can always just ask.

i was really impressed with how well squeels behaved while we were at the vets though, bless him, he was very calm and just stood there for me, having his chin scratched, lovely little old man x
 
I double checked the dosage and rate in the Small Animal Formulary (the animal meds and dosage reference book) before I posted so it is as the vet would have seen and worked out your prescription for the pigs.

x
 
the vet at my usual practice was no help whatsoever, i thought at least she would advise me if i needed to treat my rabbits, but they flat out refused as i happened to mention another vet prescribed me the itrafungol for the piggies. -_-

i could go for a consultation, but she also mentioned to me that the itrafungol wouldn't have been what she prescribed. (though it was what i wanted)

i'm not sure whether to go for a consult to be sure or not... i can't leave them until next week to begin treatment, i really need to start doing it tomorrow as i missed today.
didn't get a chance to weigh them as i got quite upset after the visit to the vet. (another panic attack :( )
and they charged me an extortionate amount for my dogs wormers too. can't win!

I'm so lost. if once a day is the done thing with 7 on and 7 off repeated three fold, that's what i'll do.
just really hope it will work... really cannot afford much more of this, i've already borrowed £120 from my sister :(

for cats it's recommended that they be clipped... is it the same for guineas or should i leave them as they are?
i didn't clip Clarabel, but then she was getting twice the dose she should have had, over a longer period of time :red

they're going to be jostled about a bit so i can deep clean each of the hutches. Really going to war on this now, i've most definitely had enough!
i'd not had a panic attack in over a year an a half before this.
 
What the heck was i thinking?! i won't have enough in one bottle to get them through two weeks of dosing, never mind the third week he's also reccomended!
and that's if they weigh 1kg each without going over

this is just getting worse and worse, i told him i had 10 piggies to treat 8...
 
Hi P

I can fully understand that this is becoming a very stressful time, big hugs!

The itrafungol is given on week one and week three.

If you are treating all 10 pigs @ 1kg each you will need 35ml for the first week. Another 35ml for week 3. As your bottle does not contain the full amount required (assuming you pigs average weights are 1kg) then you can just ask for more to be prescribed and collect it - you shouldn't need a further consult as this is the treatment course the vet has laid out.

When I have use Itrafungol I was given the same programme - 0.5ml/kg, dosing through week one and week three - no doses during week two, assessment made at the end of week four.

HTH

Suzy x
 
Thank you, this is what i really don't like about this vet - he didn't even explain the treatment plan to me.
He just scribbled it on the box as i was putting my pin number in.
And it even says on it that i should also treat on week 5

Under the circumstances though, should he not have given me the full course of drugs there and then?
The way i have read the rules with POM-V meds is that the minimum amount needs to be prescribed to treat the problem,and i don't even have that.

He charges £58 for the itrafungol, i would have much rather paid the £20 prescription fee to have it written out and order it online if i'm going to need more, as this is a lot more costly than i thought it would be from him.
And i stressed in almost every sentence i made that the cost was an issue.
We can't use the PDSA scheme as our dog is regstered to it.

My sister who is loaning me the money has a 9 month old daughter to support, i can't in all good conscence take much more from her, because with the way she is as well, She won't let me pay her it back, and she's even talking about replacing my hutches for me
I feel awful that she feels the need to offer.

And i still don't know what to do about my rabbits, will the f10 shampoo be enough?

Everyone out there is so depressed as i can't run them
And i feel like i need to avoid going to see them. It's horrible.

And at the same time, i don't want to pass on a problem to a rescue, despite the fact that in the long run it would probably be better for the piggies to be re-homed.

I've not mentioned it anywhere as i can't even bear to think about it, but the stress of the imaverol treatment killed one of the rabbits, her cage mate followed a week later and she was visibly unhappy after the loss of her friend, it's all such a mess & i'm back to seeing no way out.

I thought going to the vet would help, but i'm no further forward at all
 
Feeling brighter today, first dose of itrafungol done which was relatively painless for all involved, (have been waiting all weekend to start, but going monday - sunday is just easier to keep track of) though Bewely did decide to spit half of his out rolleyes

never mind though.
think i'll clean them out tomorrow, nice new bedding will cheer anyone up :)
 
just a quick update on my situationl

i finally made it back to the vet for a second bottle of itrafungol

i looked at him daft when he asked me if they were any better... i just said "well they're not any worse" :red

i'm just not sure if they are any better. they have fur again, but it's still very loose. i would say it's even looser than it was previously.
i'm planning to bath them this week a couple of times to see to what extent it falls out. (either with F10 shampoo or gorgeous guineas manuka & neem)

the second bottle of itrafungol cost me £50 anyway, £8.60 less than the price on the sticker.
and i got a handful of 1ml syringes along with that too. if after the third week of treatment, if they're still not clear, the vet says he will perform a skin scrape free of charge and we'll go from there.

tomorrow is the end of their 2nd treatment week anyway.

i'm still to pull the hutches out and properly bleach them though as i've had no help whatsoever with it, there's just been no one around to help me move the empty tower out fo the compound so i can hose it down.

have to get that done this week. even if i don't move them out to do it.

sadly i lost squeeler a few days ago too, he seemed to have just passed on in his sleep, bless him.


is it normal for some piggies fur to grow back in a completely different colour when they've lost fur to fungal though?

i ask because Dewey who can be seen here:
256252_10151021308889825_1407124006_o.jpg


has patches of loss around his eyes, most of the right hand side of his face was bald, it used to be ginger/orange fur, but it's growing back a dark brown colour which is quite odd! :{
 
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