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GI issues in both 3 year old boars - clumps of wet stool

herbandhip

herbandhip

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Hi there - I've been having some tummy issues with both of my boys and wondering if anyone has any suggestions. I have a vet appt booked in next week (have to wait a while for a guinea specialist), but am hoping someone might have some tips before then. There are a few general points and then some issues specific to each one (apologies that the poo talk is a bit graphic):

General
  • For food, they have a bowl of Burgess Excel nuggets always available (about a quarter of a cup in the bowl per day, but they barely eat any).
    • They have unlimited Timothy Hay, changed everyday
    • I give them about a cup of veg each every night, predominantly lettuce, tomatoes, carrots, peppers, coriander/parsley.
  • They are both pretty uninterested in the nuggets and only seem to make any headway through the bowl when I place a bowl of water right next to the nuggets, which they drink at the same time as eating. They have a water bottle available at all times which they also drink from, so it's not like they do not have access to water without the bowl. They used to eat these nuggets happily, now they're not particularly interested unless there's water in a bowl right next to it.
  • They nibble their way through the hay each day.
  • They love their veg, particularly greenery.
  • Both are exhibiting symptoms of wet stool - it's not diarrhoea, but the pellets are slimy, they clump together, and they leave their bottoms dirty/greasy after they poo.
Hippo
  • Hippo has been this way since Christmas, I've tried all sorts of things, including:
    • Cutting down the vegetable intake (I think this worked a little, particularly when I cut out spinach)
    • Changing their hay more than once a day, as they get excited when it's new, to encourage him to eat more hay
    • Cleaning out his perineal sac with a cotton bud - the vet mentioned it could be blockages, however there's rarely anything 'stored' in there
    • Putting probiotic powder on their nuggets
    • Trying to encourage him to exercise more (which he hates)
  • Nothing seems to have helped in any significant way, his bottom is always greasy after a poo and there's often a poo hanging out of it. In addition, he passes clumps of wet poos stuck together. He rarely passes standard dry poos.
Herbert
  • Herbert has been completely fine up until the last two weeks, when he contracted a UTI / was diagnosed with bladder stones.
    • He's on Baytril and Metacam, and I've noticed he has now also started doing clumps of wet poo (in the last few days)
    • I know that antibiotics can upset the digestive tract so it could be that, but because Hippo is already struggling with this, I'm concerned that they're related somehow.
As I said, I'm going to the vet next week, but if anyone can think of anything glaringly obvious that I'm getting wrong, I'd be really grateful! Thank you!
 
It’s good you have a vet appointment booked. I would suggest you take them both off veggies altogether for a few days (we generally say for 24-48 hours after the poos have firmed up) and see if that helps.

Carrots and tomato aren’t recommended as every day veg as carrots are sugary and tomato is acidic and too much tomato can cause mouth sores. Parsley every day is also not recommended as it’s high in calcium and too much can cause bladder problems including bladder stones which I notice you say Herbert already has. Does he still have the bladder stone or has it been surgically removed? You may find our diet guide helpful Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
 
Hi Claire - okay, thank you for this. No surgery on Herbert, no - the vet says his symptoms are mild, so has suggested giving only low calcium veg (e.g. parsley only as a treat, no spinach, brassica etc) and Oxbow urinary support biscuits to help break down any crystals in there. When I told her about Hippo, she suggested giving him fennel bulb or dilute fennel herbal tea to ease any tummy upset. I gave them the tea this morning, which Hippo drank with gusto, don't think Herbert has touched it.
 
Too many sweet items such as carrot, fruit, acidic items such as tomato, can cause an overgrowth of the wrong type of gut bacteria which can lead to soft poops. Removing veg from the diet until poops normalise and from then on ensuring carrot, fruit and tomatoes are not fed often and certainly no more than once per week. Using a probiotic can also help.

Most calcium comes into the diet via nuggets (even low calcium varieties) and unfiltered drinking water. Ensuring they only get one tablespoon of nuggets per pig per day and the bowl is not left with them all day, and ensuring water is filtered can help lower calcium intake. Then ensuring high calcium veggies are kept limited.

Diet changes will not do anything for any stones currently present. Depending on the stone, in boars, they often need surgical removal.
Diet may help going forward and reduce the risk of further stones forming but it takes several weeks for diet changes to have an effect.
 
Hope the boys recover from their upset tummies.
I followed the forum advice when my Phoebe had an upset tummy caused by the antibiotics she was on.
Her tummy recovered quickly and normal poops resumed
 
I suggest that you speak with your vet about surgery for Herbert to remove the stone. Surgery is sadly often the only options to get rid of stones, especially in boars. It could be fatal if it becomes lodged in the urethra
 
Thanks all for your help - really grateful, I'll cut out veg for now and see if that helps. I was wondering if anyone has a sense of why one of them might much prefer drinking from a bowl, rather than a bottle? Whenever I put a bowl of water in Hippo goes mad and drinks loads. He gets water all over his fluffy face so it's quite sweet, but I'm worried he's not getting enough water when the bowl isn't in there. He does drink from the bottle when the bowl isn't there, but not with the ferociousness with which he goes at the water bowl. Does anyone know why that might be?
 
Hi

If Hippo perfers the bowl, please make sure that he has contstant access and wash/refill it at least twice daily.
He may have had one where he was born or may find drinking from a bottle more uncomfortable.

Especially being without the extra fluid from fresh veg it is important that you ensure that there is plenty of water. The individual intake can vary loads.
More about drinking and when you need worrying: All About Drinking And Bottles

Piggies are full of individual quirks. Enjoy them for it!

All the best for getting on top of your soft poos. If things don't get noticeably better within a day or two or recur, please see a vet.
 
Hi everyone - just checking in to say that Herbert's condition has got much worse. He's stopped eating and drinking of his own accord entirely, so I'm syringe feeding him both water and food. We've got the Science Selective recovery food, so I'm using that. He has lost a lot of weight and feels like skin and bones - he's at 1kg, which is very light for him. He's sitting hunched over all the time (not lying down) and is just staring at the wall - it's really sad. I got him to the vet for an emergency appt this morning, but they didn't have an exotic specialist available. She's suggested I try to get an appt at this nearby exotic hospital tomorrow, so that's my plan, but she was not optimistic about his prognosis. I'm keeping him warm and spending time with him, and feeding him every couple of hours. The box says 1 sachet per day, but that feels like a huge amount. It's 70ml of water per sachet, so that would be at least 70 syringefuls, which seems pretty mad, so I'm just doing what I think he can handle. I've checked the guidance on this forum and it seems to agree that ill little ones can only handle about 3-5ml in each sitting, which seems about right for him. Anyway, thanks for your help last week and hopefully I might be able to nurse Herb back to health / hopefully the hospital tomorrow can work out what's wrong with him.
 
I am so so sorry!

You are still aiming for getting at least as close to 40 ml in 24 hours - you feed the more often the less you can get into a piggy; including in a real crisis some night feeds.
Our emergency care guide has got a chapter how you can determine if your boy has crossed the line of no return if it comes to the worst (which I really don't hope). But the nights with a critical piggy can be long and lonely, so here is all the necessary information in case you need it, including for the worst case scenario when nobody is around much: Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
 
Thanks both for your support - and for those links as well. I'll try to do a feed for him even more regularly - he's not properly fighting it anymore, which potentially is a bad sign, but also makes it easier for me to get the food into him. Out of the two of them, he's always been the more boisterous and healthy one, so it's tough to see him so small and frail. There's no friction between them tho, and they're snuggling up like normal so that's good at least.
 
herbandhip said:
Thanks both for your support - and for those links as well. I'll try to do a feed for him even more regularly - he's not properly fighting it anymore, which potentially is a bad sign, but also makes it easier for me to get the food into him. Out of the two of them, he's always been the more boisterous and healthy one, so it's tough to see him so small and frail. There's no friction between them tho, and they're snuggling up like normal so that's good at least.
Click to expand...

Make sure that you keep him warm but not hot.

Growing apathy is unfortunately not a good sign.
If you need to, here is a guide link I am never happy to link in but it will talk you through everything if you are ending up with a dying piggy: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

Fingers VERY firmly crossed!

HUGS
 
We made it through the night, but he's lost a little more weight. He's now snuggled up on my chest but is twitching/shivering every couple of seconds. The exotic hospital won't accept him without a referral and I can't get through to my vet to give the referral. To be honest I'm wondering if the kindest thing at this point would just be to let him pass away snuggled up at home, rather than stressing him out by driving him across London to different vets. I'm not really sure - it's a really tough decision to make, but he's so little that his prospects don't seem good
 
I’m so sorry Herbert has taken a turn for the worst. It may just be the antibiotics that have knocked him for six. Some piggies don’t do well on antibiotics. I’d try and get the referral. He’s still young. Fingers crossed for whatever decision you make. There is no right or wrong one. Sending healing vibes for Herbert and a hug for you. 🤗
 
Thanks @weepweeps . He is actually showing a little bit more life and your comment spurred me on, so I've got the ball rolling for the referral. Fingers very very crossed.
 
I really hope Herbert has many more happy days with you and Hippo. Good luck with the referral. Keep us posted.
 
Hope he's continuing to fight on. Hope the referral goes well
Sending love
 
Hello all - thanks so much for your support over the last few days. Herbert is still soldiering on - I got him to the exotic vet this afternoon who had originally diagnosed him with the uti/bladder stones. She thinks that the problem may actually be some kind of tumour or mass on his kidneys, so has asked me to bring him in tomorrow for an X-ray. I'm not sure what we do if it is a tumour tho, as he's so weak I don't know how easy it will be for him to recover from a surgery. But first things first, hopefully he'll get through the night and we can see how the X ray goes tomorrow. She gave him some subcutaneous fluids as well so hopefully he'll be able to keep on going for now. I'm starting to get pretty exhausted from worrying about him.
 
Caring for a sick piggy is tiring and knowing the possibility that Herbert has a mass will face you with a difficult decision.
Holding you in my thoughts
 
Hi everyone - thanks for all your support over the last few days. Unfortunately it all got too much for little Herbie and the vet put him down this morning. She thinks it was an aggressive carcinoma which spread over a very short time. By the end he wouldn't even accept water that I was syringing into his mouth, so we decided it was time to let him sleep. I'm so sad, but need to concentrate on Hippo and making sure he doesn't get lonely. I may consider the possibility of adopting another older pig at some point to keep him company, but will cross that bridge another day. Thanks again
 
So very sorry for your loss.
You gave Herbie so much love and made the tough choice to end his suffering.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
 
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