Going Pelletless!

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Laura-CCC4

Laura-CCC4

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Lisa picked up on the fact that I'm switching my pigs over to a pelletless diet, so I thought I'd explain things in a proper thread away from all the Hay Ramblings. :))

LisaJazz said:
So this pellet-less diet. When are you planning on starting it?

Are your lot into their pellets or do you think they wont really notice?

Also - vitamin C - extra veggies for them or do you think they get excess vit C already? I'm interested in your latest project. You are no doubt doing it for health reasons for them.
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It is medically related, yes. I wouldn't recommend a pelletless diet to anyone and everyone as it can be troublesome at first, it can have some "risks" - weight loss is something that does occur and must be very carefully controlled, and you must ensure a good intake of hay and fresh veggies.

But I'm in a position whereby the dry food could be playing a big part in Dexter's medical problems - and the pellets are causing a weight problem with Meghan. Dexter still has somewhat sluggish digestion after removing all known 'troublesome' foods from his diet, and I've been talking with a very experienced rodentologist who believes that a pelletless diet may well improve his digestion. I agree with this rodentologist and trust her fully, and in all honesty there is no other explanation for Dexie's constant "low-lying bloat" (where he just can't shake off that last little bit of tightness) other than the pellets. No matter what type of pellets, his digestion is just not smooth.

I'm taking three months to make the switch for them, it will be very very gradual. I have already started, we're coming up to the start of week two now. Each stage will take two weeks, running along the following lines:

Weeks 1-2: filling bowls as normal in morning, not topping up bowls in evening
Weeks 3-4: filling bowls as normal in morning, removing all bowls in evening (even if some pellets remaining)
Weeks 5-6: filling bowls with reduced amount in morning, removing bowls in evening
Weeks 7-8: filling bowls with same reduced amount in morning, removing bowls mid-afternoon
Weeks 9-10: filling bowls with further reduced amount in morning, removing bowls mid-afternoon
Weeks 11-12: feed pellets during floor time only

After week 12, no pellets at all. It is a daunting prospect and my concerns over weight loss in the dainty pigs have been considered. If I have concerns during the transition, I will have to seriously rethink my approach, but I do believe that Dexter will be far better off for having no bulky pellets in his system. Why am I changing all 14 over to pelletless, not just Dexter? For a start, Dex lives with five other pigs, so straight away that group would all have to go pelletless. If six of fourteen pigs are pelletless, it's worth considering all the others for the same:

- Delilah & Sophia rarely eat all their pellets, and they don't get given many. They won't miss them.
- Elijah & Errol dont get excited about pellets; they'll eat them but never finish them, can go overnight without touching them. I don't think they will miss them.
- Pandora & Harrison enjoy their pellets, but the real excitement is reserved for hay and veggies. They might miss them but they are adpating to not having a bowl overnight - they don't rush to the pellets when they are given in a morning.
- Frankie & Meghan are the same as Pandora & Harry; they enjoy them and usually empty the bowl, but don't rush to them after a night without them.

In terms of Vitamin C, they get a good veggie diet so I am not worried. Pellets have always been the "back-up", the assurance that they'll get anything they might be missing from their pellets. It is a leap of faith, but given that they get the best hay and a solid veggie diet I feel it would be in the best interests of the pigs to try a pelletless diet.

Any questions about it all, just ask. I understand there will be many "sceptics" but I also believe a lot of people will understand why I'm doing this and will see the logic in it!

I will start noting the pigs weight trackings on this thread once a month as we make the transition.
 
Good luck with this Laura. I am not experienced enough to know whether this is a good or bad thing but you are doing it out of concern for your pigs. You will be monitoring it so I am sure if there are any concerns you will adjust as you go along. You obviously care deeply for your piggies and I hope that this works and Dexter and the other piggies reap the benefit. All I can do is wish you well and keep us updated. You are not on your own, we wish you and your piggies well.
 
Really interesting Laura, will watch the progress!

I guess it's similar in a way to choosing to feed dogs raw - not something I feel able to do, personally, but in theory a good move.

I'm sure not many people could go pelletless, but if anyone can, it's you! Good luck

Sophie
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I've often thought about pelletless diets and how they'd be very beneficial to some piggies. I'd be interested in hearing how you've got on. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Hi I'm glad I've seen this post. My new vet who is a specialist in 'exotics' and small animals has plenty of guineas himself and actually said that he feeds them only hay and veg when they are grown up. he said they are 'made' to live on poor quality grass. all his pigs are good weight and healthy also even less chance that they have teeth probs because the hay is there main diet. he also said they maintain their weight better etc and less chance of getting overweight. have been thinking about doing the same so good luck will keep a keen eye on your progress. ;) he only mentioned this on tues so i have been thinking about it.
 
Best of luck with your new diet programme will watch and see how you get on
 
About three months ago I started to reduce the amount of pellets I give my piggies and now they are having a diet that consists of veggies, grasses, hay and readigrass. They do get a very small amount of pellets and oats, but this is given in very small amounts, two or three times a week. Each evening I literally fill their cages with hay. I feel their diet is so much more natural now. Initially there was a drop in weight but this soon levelled out.
 
It's completely daunting at times, and completely simple at others. It all depends on how things work out as I go through the weeks. I am giving them 2 full weeks on each stage so that I can let their weight get steady before reducing the amount further - the worst thing to do would be to get the changeover done in only a couple of weeks, they would lose too much weight in one go. They have to learn to eat more hay to fill them up instead of bulky pellets, and they need time to realise that they ain't getting pellets on demand!

The only pigs that may concern me are the dainties, those under 1kg - Bree, Willa, Delilah, Gwenivere. Three of those four live with Dexter, hence the deep thought all week on this. They're not total foodie pigs so don't go in much for pellets anyway, but taking that safety net away from them is something I'll have to monitor as we go along. If I'm not happy with how things are going, I will have to try and find another way around it all or find a middle-ground.

I believe my pigs are in good hands and I believe I give them a very good diet, this just feels like the ultimate test...as I said, it feels like I'll be walking without a safety net.

Good to hear yours are doing well Debbie, I didn't realise yours were pelletless piggies. It is encouraging, especially with Pops history, to hear just how well they seem to be doing on it. :)
 
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Thanks for filling me in!

I'm very interested in how you get on. I love reading your informational posts as they are so thorough and from what you have said it's worth a try and i'm interested in how it works out. You have done your research and come up with a good gradual withdrawal method which is always better than a shock.

I have heard about it before and it doesn't sound too radical at all, in the wild it would be all vegetation wouldn't it?

Can't wait to hear how you get on with it all.
 
Laura-CCC4 said:
It's completely daunting at times, and completely simple at others. It all depends on how things work out as I go through the weeks. I am giving them 2 full weeks on each stage so that I can let their weight get steady before reducing the amount further - the worst thing to do would be to get the changeover done in only a couple of weeks, they would lose too much weight in one go. They have to learn to eat more hay to fill them up instead of bulky pellets, and they need time to realise that they ain't getting pellets on demand!

The only pigs that may concern me are the dainties, those under 1kg - Bree, Willa, Delilah, Gwenivere. Threeof those four live with Dexter, hence the deep thought all week on this. They're not total foodie pigs so don't go in much for pellets anyway, but taking that safety net away from them is a slight risk. If I'm not happy with how things are going, I will have to try and find another way around it all or find a middle-ground.


I believe my pigs are in good hands and I believe I give them a very good diet, this just feels like the ultimate test...as I said, it feels like I'll be walking without a safety net.
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just a thought could you maybe have you're little ones out for floor time alone for a short while and give them some pellets without dexter? just to give them a bit more?
 
I'll be interested to hear your reports on this Laura. I admit that it's not something which I have considered, but like many of yours, my three rarely eat all of their pellets and they only get a small amount anyway.

Your planned diet should mimic their natural food so should *hopefully* all work just fine for you and your piggies.

Best of luck!
 
Thanks for the replies. In the US they usually refer to it as the HAFF diet - Hay And Fresh Foods - and they always discuss it with such caution and they insisted on weighing the veg every day. I understand why but it always put me off, so to discuss in more in depth with a rodentologist has really helped me understand it so much better.

Another dietary change is veggie routine. Instead of 1-2 larger salads a day, they'll be getting 3 small servings throughout the day. So far it's been cucumber and green beans at breakfast, cherry tomatoes and celery at lunch, and the lettuce and herbs at teatime. Little and often has got to be better for Dexter's digestion!

If the weight of the dainty pigs does drop to a level I am not happy with (below 900g) then I will let them have some pellets - as suggested, Bree, Gwen and Willa will have theirs away from Dexter.

It's an interesting project, not done anything on this scale before, but I am hopeful that it will work out!
 
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sounds like you are doing a grand job planning this. Again as i said my vet has his pigs on the diet and the nurses there are in the process of doing it with their piggies too so should be ok for you and hopefully Dexter will feel better soon. ;) xx
 
I began to switch mine over when I was looking after some of the veterinary assistant's piggies. Hers are pelletless and I was amazed by the amount of hay they all eat.

Pops still has a small amount of pellets at all times, but she prefers to eat veggies and hay. Since she has been eating mainly a hay diet she has needed much less work doing on her teeth too.
 
Very interesting topic I will follow your progress and that of the piggies with interest.
 
I've subscribed to this thread Laura as I will be very interested to see how you get on.
As you know, I'm trying to radically change my piggy's diet to help with Truffle's bladder problems and have also been advised of the pellet free diet. Truffle does eat a lot of pellets and I do wonder if that makes him worse, although saying that George always empties his bowl & has not had any issues (touch wood).
Good luck with the change & please keep us updated x
 
With Minx' bladder/cystitis problems (and again last spring/summer with all the cystitis trouble) I have gone pelletless at times. Mine never have had a big portion anyway, except when I got Cariad and Ceri who were dodgy about veg at first and I have been trying to reduce it steadily since.

I have found that some (lets's call them well-nourished) piggies will lose a bit of (over)weight, but will never below a healthy level. Others just keep their normal weight.

On the German forums people frown very much on dry food. With hay and a good mix of fresh veg there shouldn't be much of a problem.

Keep us posted about your findings!
 
I can see your point. Mine could live without their muesli, I fill the bowl once or twice a week, but it does get emptied! however, pelletless? no... I have to fill the bowl every night and sometimes during the day too... i've seen them wait by the empty bowl when I'd just given them hay or veg! there'd be a riot!:laluot_32::aJFBQ00142070108C::laluot_14:

good luck and keep us posted!
 
A very interesting topic. I have been thinking about my own feeding regime recently. When I first got pigs nearly four years ago, I had read on the internet that it was not possible to overfeed them. My girlies lived in a long, narrow kitchen and they rapidly put on a large amount of weight because I was picking grass for them and feeding large amounts of veggies as well as giving pellets. Realising that this would not be good for their long-term health I decided to feed pellets in the morning and veggies in the evening.

My pigs have 2 hay trays about the size of cat litter trays which I completely overfill with meadow hay and top with timothy or readigrass. This is changed daily to stimulate them to eat as much hay as possible.

I would say it is a successful regime: I lost a pig to heart/kidney disease in Feb 08, but apart from that I have never had reason to take my other two pigs (who are now just gone 5) to the vets. I think this is a very good track record when I compare myself to people I know who got their pigs around the same time that I got mine.
 
Thanks for this thread Laura

At the back of my mind I have always wondered why I still keep giving my pigs their pellets.
For one, they hardly eat any, and two if they are getting hay and veggies whats the point of pellets?
Mine gets lots of different hay including Orchard, Timothy, readigrass, meadow hay. They only stop munching on it when the veggies are given, or they are taking a nap.
I'm terrible at buying stuff for them they like the Fenugreek Crunchies, Burns Plantain, Naturals cornflower etc.
If I wasnt so diverse with the hay and veggies then of course the pellets would be a substainable part of their diet. But I believe my two get more than enough vitamins from the diet I give them.
They are both big boys too weighing 1.45kg. I really dont want them any bigger. Most of their veggies consist of Corriander, Dill, sweet peppers, lambs lettece, Romaine lettuce, cucumber, blueberries, mini sweetcorn.
 
It's also interesting having just taken on a bunny and reading up about diet that buns should have very little in the way of pellets ( an egg cup full!) as they should have hay as the bulk of their diet.

I feed my pigs too much dry food I think, so look forward to the results of your trial.

Sophie
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sophiew said:
It's also interesting having just taken on a bunny and reading up about diet that buns should have very little in the way of pellets ( an egg cup full!) as they should have hay as the bulk of their diet.

I feed my pigs too much dry food I think, so look forward to the results of your trial.

Sophie
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My bunnies get a very small amount of dry food (about what will fit in the palm of my hand, between them). My vet has suggested I completely withdraw the dry food once the weather has warmed up a little and they are also spending more time on grass that is actually growing. The bunnies do tend to love their dry food and will eat that in preference to veggies and hay, unlike the piggies. However, since cutting the dry food to an absolute minimum the amount of hay they are eating has tripled. So much better for their teeth.


Since going virtually pelletless with the piggies, the hay consumption has gone up considerably. Between 16 piggies and 2 bunnies I go through almost a whole bale of hay a week. I can't wait for the spring time when I can start getting them into the runs so they can eat lots of fresh grass too. I feel the piggies and bunnies are eating a diet much more suited to them.

My friend, who has been feeding hers a pelletless diet for a long time, has many piggies reaching the age of 8 years.
 
That's brilliant - I guess it's partly convenience that most rely on dry 'complete' food, as it's much harder work to make sure they're getting a balanced diet otherwise (as I said earlier, like choosing to feed dogs on raw food!).

Mine get through lots of hay and luckily the bunny loves her hay too. She gets very little dry food, but I'm having to be careful introducing new veg as her previous diet was unknown so it's a little at a time.

Sophie
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I wish you well Laura with your plans. It will be interesting to see how the guineas respond to their new feeding regime.

Unfortunately there is so little research into the guinea pig diet but if they are inline with other pets in the UK many of us will have overweight piggies :{

I would expect the piggies to loose a percentage of their body weight but that's not going to necessarily be a negative aspect of this change.

I'm delighted that you are taking the process to a different level though, it certainly wouldn't suit most piggy owners but I feel sure your piggies will benefit. It's such a pity that the wide range of different hays is so expensive though as it would make this feeding plan easier for many people wishing to give it a try.

I would be particularly interested to see how your oldest pig adapts. How old is the oldest? With Senior piggies here at LB I'm just glad they will eat anything to maintain some weight.

:)
 
Bunnies DO like their pellets...

When I got my bunnies two years ago I came to the end of a packet of pellets and decided that it would do them both good to go without for a couple of days.

My lady rabbit Narla quickly developed a sore patch on her shoulder. I was perplexed and checked it to make sure that it wasn't infected. It was just a small bald patch with no sign of a cut or inflammation.

I asked myself what changes had taken place in their environment during the previous few days. Then I realised that they had not had their pellets. It turned out that my rather dominant (Netherland Dwarf!) male rabbit Norris had taken to pinning Narla to the ground while he overgroomed her shoulder. I saw him do it and he fixed me with a menacing look as if to say: 'give me the pellets, or the fluffy one gets it!'

Narla's shoulder went back to normal as soon as normal pellet feeding was resumed and I learned the importance of pellets to these small furries! I was so glad that they are houserabbits so that I noticed Narla's shoulder immediately and also that as they both free range, she had plenty of places to get away from Norris's unwanted grooming...

He guards the pellet bowl very jealously, grunting and charging at me every morning when I go to fill it and binkying all the while! If he doesn't recognise my footwear, he is particularly aggressive...
 
summerleaze said:
I would be particularly interested to see how your oldest pig adapts. How old is the oldest? With Senior piggies here at LB I'm just glad they will eat anything to maintain some weight.

:)
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Hi Louise, thanks for your reply. My oldest is Delilah, as she's a rescue her age is quite unknown but various factors lead me to think she is at least 5 years old, possibly a year or more older. The oldest that I definitely know the age of is Jasmine, she'll be 5 in May. I have four others who are 4-5 years too.

Thanks for all the extra thoughts and info, I'm learning as much from some of you lot as I hope I've made some of you think. One piece of advice that was brought to my attention, for anyone thinking of "going pelletless", it's not recommended for pigs under 9-12 months of age. Let them reach adult size/weight before trying to remove pellets altogether.

I must admit, hay intake is clearly set to rise quite a bit so I am considering buying in some meadow hay to mix with the Oxbow. I'll still go with the two 22kg Oxbow hays, but in addition I'll find some 'cheaper' meadow hay to mix in. They will only have hay stored in their hay racks so as long as the meadow hay is decent quality, I'd be happy to cut costs by doing that. Plus I'll be growing grass and getting them out in the run a bit in the warmer weather.

Somehow I envisage my bedroom (where the pigs live) being more like a barn, with the amount of hay that will end up being used in there!

It does seem so logical and so much more natural, and each time I think about Dexter's problems it just makes so much more sense that the pellets could be one of his biggest problems. The idea of a hay and veggie diet is so appealing for me - the pigs must surely agree! I am starting to look on it as the pellets are processed foods; now we know us humans shouldn't really eat processed foods, so why should the pigs? The more natural and simple, the better.

These are the sort of things I am discovering now, thanks to the help of a lovely rodentologist who was kind enough to share her advice and experiences.

Delilah and Sophia will be the easiest to remove pellets from, I anticipate the most complaints from Franklyn and Meghan. Frankie's feelings are written all over his face, so if he is grumpy you know about it just by looking at him. I've had the "I've got an empty bowl" stare and it's pretty powerful. :))

First weigh in since starting the 'project' is tomorrow, I can see that Meghan has lost some of her excess weight already and the dainty pigs don't look or feel any different. I think I'll track their weights on here every week, instead of monthly; weekly updates would give a more accurate idea of how it's working out at the start, middle and end of each stage. :)
 
I think an element of "poorer quality" hay will be an essential part of their balanced diet. If you can find a bale from someone who supplies horses that would be ideal.

(When I say poorer quality I don't mean "bad hay" as in moldy etc but poorer quality as in that it includes bits and pieces that were cut in with it from the field and not necessarily perfect in shape, size and colour - the Oxbow tends to be very perfect and uniform and whilst it certainly is one of the best they also need to graze on the basics too. The odd bit of seed or weed is beneficial.)

Simulating the grazing type foraging they would have in the wild means feeding them little and often with a variety of hays. I try to keep at least three or four varieties here and find it all gets eaten provided they only have a very small quantity given to them at a time. The "newness" of a tiny handful of a new hay seems to stimulate them into eating rather than if they have lots put in all in one go, then they eat initially then leave the rest.

I'm sure you'll be documenting their progress - it will be fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us all :)
 
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