Going To Neuter My Two Separate Boars And Pair Them Up With My Sows! Any Advice?

[Ruby Inferno]

Nearly a year ago I purchased my first ever pair of piggies from a pet shop (I wasn't really aware of rescues at the time), both brothers. A few months later they got into a vicious fight so I had to permanently separate them. I still have them now, I love them so much. They are both currently 13 months old. I am going to get them both neutered fairly soon by a cavy savvy vet once the weather is consistently warmer (they live outdoors and have done since the day I got them, which was in May, I will proabably be required to keep them indoors for a few days after they have been neutered so I don't want them to experience a huge temperature change) which shouldn't be too long now. Because they drew blood I don't want to risk re-introducing them, so I will pair them up with some girlies once they are no longer fertile.

In February I adopted a pair of adorable girlies from a rescue. They are 5 months old. I was originally planning on introducing them to one of my boars (maybe Doughnut, the piggy in my avatar) and adopting a single sow for my other boar (Caramel), however now I am debating whether to simply split up my girls and have one for each boar? Or will that cause them too much stress?

I have both options carefully thought out. If I go for the first one and ensure Caramel's newly adopted sow is younger than him, just like my current girlies are, she is likely to outlive him meaning she can still join Doughnut's trio with no one being left on their own. If she is older than Caramel, he could end up being lonely because she would be likely to pass sooner than he does. Obviously, Caramel wouldn't be able to join Doughnut's trio because of course boars cannot live together if they also live with other sows, plus the fact they do not get along anyway. Or if Doughnut passes first, I have the option to either introduce everyone else as a herd of 4 or leave them as two pairs until consequences deem it necessary to introduce them.

I know it's not the most cheery of thoughts, but I'm trying to think logically for their future.

On the other hand, if I split up the sows and introduce them to both boars and have two pairs, it will still have mostly the same logic but I'm not sure if my girlies will pine for eachother or not. On the plus side, there would also be no need to adopt another sow.

The reason why the plan would be for Doughnut to have a trio and not Caramel is because Doughnut seems to be the more sociable one and I feel he would do better in a trio than Caramel would. I'm not going to let either of them live on their own though.

I believe I have room for a 6 ft hutch for them in my garden, might try to look for a 6 ft double hutch for space efficiency but it would have to be on long legs so it's easier to reach the bottom floor. This means there is enough room for a herd of 4 as I mentioned, but even if I don't introduce a herd together they will still have lots of room to popcorn around in. And if I decide to split up my sows and have a pair for each floor, that's even more space!

Please let me know what you think, second opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Maisy and Poppy]

I am not very knowledgeable with after neutering problems but unless the girls are fighting I think having one trio and a pair would be the best option. Good luck!

 

[Wiebke]

It is great that you have been thinking things through carefully.

From my own experiences from juggling sows between groups, I can say that either way can work. It depends on how good friends your two existing girls are.
4 guinea pigs will constitute a mini-group with different social dynamics, but whether and how well a third sow will integrate depends on how dominant any future single sow is and how closely knit your two girls are. If you are planning to eventually bond in your third sow into the other group, it is worth contacting any rescues within your reach for a non-dominant single sow; that should make any bonding much easier and a guaranteed success.

Other than us humans (and rather confusingly for us!), guinea pigs firstly identify themselves as a member of a group. They very much separate the world into "us", "not-us" and, during intros, "maybe-us". However, that does in no way mean that they forget old bonds and will not recognise each other even after several years if they continue to live in the same place and keep aware of each other's continued existence. Several of my older or middle aged sows have had no problems moving back in together again due to their age/growing frailty or after a loss or a bonding not going well. Nerys would always give Taffy a piggy kiss evenever they met during a photo shoot.

Mixed pairs/groups have the advantage that you can keep them next to each other without any other measures necessary, unlike boar pairs. My Tribe sows, even though I had to split up my big group a year ago, can still interact through the bars. They have lost their primary group identity bond, but the secondary personal one is still there, and while there would be inevitably some dominance if they were to move back together, they still know exactly how they stand with each other in terms of hierarchy.

If you struggle to find a single sow, you could even consider getting another pair of well bonded sows for Caramel, preferably younger ones that he can be boss of. It frankly doesn't matter to a boar; he is not part of the sow hierarchy and just fits into the group hierarchy somewhere based on how much kudos he has. I have got two groups with two very dominant boars at the top, and two other groups with non-dominant boars that are run by some very dominant sows.
Problems usually only arise during bonding when a dominant boar and sow cannot come to an understanding as to who will be the leader. Fall-outs afterwards are virtually unknown. However, if you have got a dominant boar you want to bond, it is advisable (and really can save you a lot of headaches) if you can date him, so you know that the initial acceptance has happened.

For that reason, I would recommend you to try bonding your more difficult boy Caramel first with your less dominant sow and see whether they get on. If yes, you could work with the piggies that you have already got. If the bonding is not working out, you can look for an alternative solution. That would be the in my opinion the best way forward; see whether any internal solution is possible before you look further afield.

PS: @flintstones can corroborate me on the possibility of bonded, but split up sows being able to move back in with each other without problems; she did that with her sister pair after one of the husboars died.

 

[flintstones]

I did @Wiebke but I had real problems getting the girls back together. It took 3 attempts and they where nail biting. The sister's did become very close again after the initial meeting and lived happily for a long time afterwards.

To be honest 3 is my magic number now, I find it much easier as if a piggy does pass you don't need a friend immediately. Getting a new pig straight away is something I struggle with, of course if I could have a group I would always jealous of piggy herds one day....

I'd get another pair but pair the first pair first of all and the other could do some piggy dating. :-)

 

[Ruby Inferno]

My sows seem to get along quite well. They sometimes do a bit of rumblestrutting and chasing eachother around, but it's nothing serious and afterwards they sit together and eat hay as if nothing ever happened. Having seen my boys fight, I know what full-blown hatred between two piggies looks like and my sows are definitely not doing anything like that. Although with my boys it was mostly (but not entirely) one-sided. Caramel was chasing Doughnut and hurting him, at the time I was not aware he was bullying him until I felt something in Doughnut's fur and realised there were scabs all over his back. I began researching this on the internet as I wasn't sure what to do. Not long after, I saw them go into a full-blown fight and used a small dustpan to separate them from the fight. They were also displaying all of the aggressive behaviours (mostly Caramel though); extremely loud teeth chattering, "yawning", raising up their hackles. Poor Doughnut ended up with flystrike from all the wounds, but fortunately it was spotted early and was treated promptly at an emergency vet. I really wish I had separated them sooner to be honest.

Anyway, getting back on topic...

I think I know which of my sows are the most dominant, though I'm not a master at piggy behaviour. One of my sows, Icicle, appears to be the less dominant of the pair because she follows Pebble around whenever they are exploring a newly cleaned out cage or perhaps when they are investigating a new toy (such as when I have made them a new cereal box tunnel because they shredded their old one). She even has similar characteristics to Doughnut in that she is cuddly but quite laid-back. Pebble, on the other hand, has a very big personality but not particularly cuddly, just like Caramel. That is why I am thinking of pairing Icicle up with Caramel, and Pebble with Doughnut, because then each pair has a domininant and a non-dominant piggy.

Icicle even has a fairly similar coat colour to Doughnut (her coat is completely white, while Doughnut's coat contains white; has a white tummy and a white stripe as you can probably see in my avatar), and Pebble's colouring is a lot like Caramel's (Pebble is black with tan dotted in random places; Caramel is black with some yellow untidily strewn around)!

I think I have found the perfect hutch for them to live in because it comes with a stand and looks extremely sturdy: http://www.rehutches.com/double-hutches/20-6-foot-double-rabbit-hutch.html

Even if I don't get that specific one, I will probably buy one of Ryedale's other hutches.

Caramel and Doughnut's current hutch is a pet shop hutch with its waterproof cover. I suppose as far as pet shop hutches go it's not that bad, but it's quite overpriced for what it is. Its inner dimensions are 110 cm by 50 cm, which might explain why they did not get along because of course boars need more space than sows. I did not know this at the time, pet shops should really explain that to people. I will keep the hutch in case I need it in the future, but my boar-sow pairs will otherwise be enjoying the luxury of a nice spacious hutch.

 

[flintstones]

With boars and sows the dynamic is completely different. My Fred hates male piggies and has had a few fights over the years. Milo my other neutered boar was a real hyper active little guy. He's the only pig that has been rejected by sows more than one.

I find it's the sows that call the shots when doing introductions. You can try who's best suited but ultimately the piggies will let you know if it works.

I do still think if the sister's are bonded I would adopt another single pig for the other boar.

 

[Ruby Inferno]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner!

I will definitely keep an eye out for rescues with single sows. My girls do seem quite happy together, it would be a bit of a shame to split them up.

 

[flintstones]

Good thinking, are the boys booked in for there operations yet?

 

[Ruby Inferno]

Not yet. I believe you have to house them indoors for a few days after the operation so I would have to make sure the temperature difference outside is not too different to inside, the last thing I would want is an illness right after an operation! The weather is not very consistent at the moment.