Goodbye to two piggies in one week - Liko and Archie

piglette

piglette

Junior Guinea Pig
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Southern Moreton Bay Islands, QLD, Australia
I've said goodbye to two of my precious piggies this week:

Liko fell sick on Monday. The vet found a tiny urinary stone lodged in a ureter, and despite successful surgery he didn't recover. He passed away just after we arrived home post-surgery. Archie fell sick on Friday. The vet thought he also had a urinary stone on x-ray, but during surgery they couldn't locate it and decided it was probably just a savage UTI. For reasons I'm still unsure about, and without my knowledge or consent, the vet also decided to castrate Archie during the surgery. He also didn't recover, and also passed away just after we arrived home.

Liko was a big, handsome orange piggy. Every single night he'd pretend he didn't realise I'd given him his grain, so he could chew the bars of he cage and make a racket a little longer. And Archie was one of those friendly 'people pigs', always at the cage to say 'hi'. He was also extremely vocal: every time his legs moved, he'd 'bop-bop-bop' along to himself.

Such a terrible shock for two healthy piggies to pass so suddenly. Also very traumatic for them to pass at home, and in pain - but mercifully in both cases it was very quick, no time to get to an after-hours vet. I'm so sad for their companions - Liko leaves behind his litter-mates Kudo and Tuli, and Archie leaves behind the gentle Badger, who is completely lost without him.

Also feeling very fragile myself: missing my two friends terribly, exhausted from 4-hour round-trip commutes to the vet at all hours, endlessly questioning decisions made and my ability to be a good piggy owner in future, loosing confidence in my ability to care for sick piggies, and immensely worried about my remaining 12 older pigs (I've been following a strict urinary diet for about 15 months after a spate of stones/UTIs, but obviously it's not 100% effective).

I'm posting here because I have no-one who really 'gets' pigs and what they mean to us, so thank-you so much for reading and understanding.
 
I’m so sorry to read your sad news, sending you big hugs. You must be devastated x
You did everything a caring owner could but you must wonder why the vet castrated Archie without your permission, so sorry
Sleep tight Liko and Archie x
 
I am so sorry for your loss of Liko and Archie x
Sleep tight little ones 🌈
Sending hugs to you and your other piggies x
 
Oh my how was and you really loved your piggies
I'm sending you lots tlc.
Remember all our piggies when they leave us go to the world Rainbow which makes them better and they all play eat and forever watch over us.
Rip Beautiful piggies.
 
I am so sorry for your losses - two in one week is unbelievably hard.

But please do not question yourself. It is clear how much you care for your piggies, and how hard you work to ensure they have the best life possible.
Sometimes even with the absolute best care these things happen.
Sending you lots of hugs from Switzerland right now.
 
Oh my goodness. What a week you’ve had. Huge hugs to you. You did your utmost best for both piggies. I’m so sorry that you lost them both in such a short space of time. No wonder you feel fragile. You are suffering a double bereavement. Go easy on yourself. Take time to grieve their loss and to treasure their memory.
 
BIG HUGS

I am ever so sorry! What a horrible week you have had - ureter stones are very difficult to operate; it is always a life saving make or break operation right at the limit of a vet's ability. The other op is harder to stomach... :(
Please do not feel like you have failed your piggies; you have done exactly what any good and caring owner should do. It is just so tough to accept when ops don't come off.

Please be kind with yourself and give yourself time to grieve and to digest it all. It is much harder when it happens unexpectedly as you have the shock as well as the pain of the loss to cope with. When this happens more than once in a short space of time the new pain doesn't just add to the existing loss, it multiplies it. Your soul can unfortunately only process so much at any time and you end up with what I personally call 'grieving indigestion' - too much to process at once and feeling very fragile as a result! Only time can help with that as you plod your way through the grieving process.

Please take the time to read these guides here; they hopefully help you through the next few weeks or months to make sense of your feelings and give you ideas where to look for understanding support to talk to or what you can do for yourself to process your losses. Bereavement doesn't depend on the species but on the depth of the bond and on the love you have shared, whether that be human or animal of any kind. Sadly only those who have ever had guinea pigs or hamsters know just how much personality they squeeze into their tiny bodies!
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig (you haven't said whether your piggies have been living together or not, so here it is in case you find it helpful)
 
So very sorry for your double loss.
You did everything you could for them and their lives were filled with love.
Holding you in my heart
 
Thanks so much everyone, I've read every message and each means so much. I'll look at the forum's bereavement guidelines when I'm able. Today my focus will be on Badger, Archie's left-behind cage mate, as he's struggling immensely by himself.

I'm having such a hard time coming to terms with Archie's death in particular. I don't understand why the vet performed the extra surgery. At first I thought they might have made a mistake and confused him for another pig who was admitted for castration. Or maybe nicked a testicle by accident, and decided castration was the best option. However, the vet was telling me castration through the abdomen is a 'new procedure' they're trying, and that heavy pigs (like Archie) always recover well post-surgery, so I'm thinking they just wanted to practice. I'm devastated they did this without my permission ... and even charged me for it. My poor little friend, who had been perfectly well except a little heamaturia, suffered so terribly before he passed. I've never felt angry when grieving before, it's complicated.
 
piglette said:
Thanks so much everyone, I've read every message and each means so much. I'll look at the forum's bereavement guidelines when I'm able. Today my focus will be on Badger, Archie's left-behind cage mate, as he's struggling immensely by himself.

I'm having such a hard time coming to terms with Archie's death in particular. I don't understand why the vet performed the extra surgery. At first I thought they might have made a mistake and confused him for another pig who was admitted for castration. Or maybe nicked a testicle by accident, and decided castration was the best option. However, the vet was telling me castration through the abdomen is a 'new procedure' they're trying, and that heavy pigs (like Archie) always recover well post-surgery, so I'm thinking they just wanted to practice. I'm devastated they did this without my permission ... and even charged me for it. My poor little friend, who had been perfectly well except a little heamaturia, suffered so terribly before he passed. I've never felt angry when grieving before, it's complicated.
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I can completely understand how mad/unset you must be feeling, it was an unnecessary procedure done without your permission and they have the cheek to charge you after your loss, that’s dreadful! give them whatfor. I know it won’t bring your boy back but it might make the vet realise what he/she has done to your little family of piggies x
 
Oh god, love. I am so so sorry. Sending you all the love in the world - you and your piggies have been through so much. Please try to find some peace in that you did all you could for your darlings, you gave them opportunities and care that not all piggies get. You are a wonderful human and your piggies are lucky to have you, sweetie.

Be kind to yourself while you grieve, I’m so sorry.
We are all here for you if you need someone to lean on.

Sweet dreams Liko and Archie, you will be so missed. 🌈
 
Bill & Ted said:
give them whatfo x
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Black piggies said:
Would it help to ask the vets why they did the extra op?
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I have and will try again to speak to them about it. I'm not very assertive. It's also difficult because this is one of the very few practices in my region which sees guinea pigs, and I have a number of pigs under their management long-term (including a dental pig, who is due to go to them for a routine dental on Monday). I'm worried about 'rocking the boat' and further limiting the care available to my pigs. But I also realise after Archie's case that I need to be a better advocate for them.
 
It doesn't sound as though you weren't a good advocate at all. You took your piggies for help, well done you. I just thought it might help to have some answers before you move on to accepting the unknown. Like maybe the neutering was for a good reason and wouldn't have changed the outcome? You did well by your piggies.
 
piglette said:
I have and will try again to speak to them about it. I'm not very assertive. It's also difficult because this is one of the very few practices in my region which sees guinea pigs, and I have a number of pigs under their management long-term (including a dental pig, who is due to go to them for a routine dental on Monday). I'm worried about 'rocking the boat' and further limiting the care available to my pigs. But I also realise after Archie's case that I need to be a better advocate for them.
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I totally understand, it’s very difficult especially finding a dental piggie experienced vet (we have Ted who’s has dental problems) it not easy, we travel nearly 400 miles for his expertise). Perhaps you can suggest that you don’t want any extra surgery without you being consulted first x
 
Black piggies said:
I just thought it might help to have some answers before you move on to accepting the unknown. Like maybe the neutering was for a good reason and wouldn't have changed the outcome?
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You're right, and answers might also help me grieve. It's a conversation I'll try to have, once I'm feeling a bit stronger.

Bill & Ted said:
I totally understand, it’s very difficult especially finding a dental piggie experienced vet (we have Ted who’s has dental problems) it not easy, we travel nearly 400 miles for his expertise). Perhaps you can suggest that you don’t want any extra surgery without you being consulted first x
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Sending love to you and your Ted, managing dental pigs can be heart-breaking and exhausting. Thank heavens my dental pig is strong and bright at the moment and just in for a routine trim. The clinic does a written estimate before a procedure, so in future I'll be firm that nothing not on the estimate is to be done without my consent. My piggies have taught me so much over the years, I guess how to be tactfully assertive is the next lesson.
 
piglette said:
Thanks so much everyone, I've read every message and each means so much. I'll look at the forum's bereavement guidelines when I'm able. Today my focus will be on Badger, Archie's left-behind cage mate, as he's struggling immensely by himself.

I'm having such a hard time coming to terms with Archie's death in particular. I don't understand why the vet performed the extra surgery. At first I thought they might have made a mistake and confused him for another pig who was admitted for castration. Or maybe nicked a testicle by accident, and decided castration was the best option. However, the vet was telling me castration through the abdomen is a 'new procedure' they're trying, and that heavy pigs (like Archie) always recover well post-surgery, so I'm thinking they just wanted to practice. I'm devastated they did this without my permission ... and even charged me for it. My poor little friend, who had been perfectly well except a little heamaturia, suffered so terribly before he passed. I've never felt angry when grieving before, it's complicated.
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What has happened is REALLY not on and totally unprofessional! If there is a unexpected problem that necessitates a different procedure than what you have consented to, the vet should make every effort to contact you, inform and ask for your consent for any change of procedure. :yikes:

I have been on the phone to my vet in the UK over an emergency bladder stone operation for one of my piggies on my 50th birthday, standing on the side of a canal in Amsterdam in the Netherlands - even though I had left a signed note with the lady who had Ceri in her care in my absence that permitted her to make any necessary decisions up to and including euthanasia on my behalf on recommendation of the treating vet. (Thankfully Ceri pulled through despite her weight having fallen very quickly from 700g to 540g over the weekend.)
And I have also once or twice being contacted when an operating vet discovered that the nature of the problem was inoperable (i.e. allowing the piggy to wake up or not) or required a more extensive procedure.

I would:
a) Write an official complaint to the clinic owners about the performance of an unnecessary and fatal procedure without you being informed and without giving your consent to any neutering, request a breakdown of the operation bill and withhold payment for the part that does relate to the neutering until and unless any questions and concerns of yours have been fully answered to your satisfaction.
b) Investigate which body you can officially lodge a complaint about bad practice in that clinic with, especially if you are fobbed off by the clinic, as well as the body vets are registered with (I would not hang too much on that as they usually close ranks - but having a bad reputation internally won't help the vet in the future).
c) If you are being fobbed off, you can contact the local press, complain to your local council over trading standards and also report the clinic to the animal welfare organisation for bad practice. Being responsible for two fatal operation in one week makes the clinic look BAD!
 
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Thanks so much @Wiebke (and hugs to Ceri ❤ )

I too always make sure I'm fully contactable when I have a pig in for a procedure, so I can deal with issues and make plans immediately. I make sure I'm approachable, and that I know exactly what's going on with their conditions and their care. There was no reason for the clinic to not contact me. I'm there regularly (once per week for another pig needing cartrophen ATM), and have a reasonably friendly relationship with the vet who did the procedure, so I feel they thought I 'wouldn't mind'.

It's difficult because this is one of the very few practices in my region which sees guinea pigs, and I have a number of pigs under their management long-term. I'm worried they'll refuse to see us if I complain. BUT I will discuss the situation with them, when I'm stronger, and make my expectations about future procedures clear. This discussion has really helped me to clarify these next steps.

(I should clarify that Liko's procedure wasn't done by the same clinic that did Archie's procedure. Unfortunately Liko fell ill out-of-hours and saw a totally separate emergency vet. I'm devastated, but not angry, about Liko's outcome - I know a stone in a ureter is a hugely complex op, and I was fully informed of the risks.)
 
I can't begin to imagine the grief and pain you have endured this week. They both knew how much you loved them and will now be free of pain. I'm sending you and your remaining piggies big hugs. I wish I could add to what has already been said, but look after yourself and your piggies. RIP little ones xx
 
piglette said:
Thanks so much @Wiebke (and hugs to Ceri ❤ )

I too always make sure I'm fully contactable when I have a pig in for a procedure, so I can deal with issues and make plans immediately. I make sure I'm approachable, and that I know exactly what's going on with their conditions and their care. There was no reason for the clinic to not contact me. I'm there regularly (once per week for another pig needing cartrophen ATM), and have a reasonably friendly relationship with the vet who did the procedure, so I feel they thought I 'wouldn't mind'.

It's difficult because this is one of the very few practices in my region which sees guinea pigs, and I have a number of pigs under their management long-term. I'm worried they'll refuse to see us if I complain. BUT I will discuss the situation with them, when I'm stronger, and make my expectations about future procedures clear. This discussion has really helped me to clarify these next steps.

(I should clarify that Liko's procedure wasn't done by the same clinic that did Archie's procedure. Unfortunately Liko fell ill out-of-hours and saw a totally separate emergency vet. I'm devastated, but not angry, about Liko's outcome - I know a stone in a ureter is a hugely complex op, and I was fully informed of the risks.)
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I would still write a polite letter and ask for clarification why you haven't been kept in the loop about an unauthorised procedure that was higher risk because of overweight - you always make sure that you are contactable during operations.
You can mention that as this comes right on top of you losing another piggy in an out-of-hours emergency op just days before, your confidence has been badly shaken. You can say that you still want to stick with them in view of the good work they are doing for your other piggies but this is leaving with you with some serious unanswered questions and you would like to have a meeting when you are feeling a bit more yourself again.
 
Wiebke said:
I would still write a polite letter and ask for clarification why you haven't been kept in the loop about an unauthorised procedure that was higher risk because of overweight - you always make sure that you are contactable during operations.
You can mention that as this comes right on top of you losing another piggy in an out-of-hours emergency op just days before, your confidence has been badly shaken. You can say that you still want to stick with them in view of the good work they are doing for your other piggies but this is leaving with you with some serious unanswered questions and you would like to have a meeting when you are feeling a bit more yourself again.
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Yes I think you're right @Wiebke. They need to recognise how terrible it was - the misdiagnosis of the stone is bad but a forgivable error, but I can't get past the apparently unnecessary castration. A letter/email may be a good opener for a conversation, and it's easier for me to clarify my thoughts in writing. Also, I'd like things documented. I will do this. Today though I'm just going to grieve and rest and share some good time with my other piggies ❤ Thanks heavens it's Sunday.
 
piglette said:
Yes I think you're right @Wiebke. They need to recognise how terrible it was - the misdiagnosis of the stone is bad but a forgivable error, but I can't get past the apparently unnecessary castration. A letter/email may be a good opener for a conversation, and it's easier for me to clarify my thoughts in writing. Also, I'd like things documented. I will do this. Today though I'm just going to grieve and rest and share some good time with my other piggies ❤ Thanks heavens it's Sunday.
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Give a few days; there is no immediate rush!

it is very easy to mistake a blob on the x-ray for a stone; it's happened with one of my boys who thankfully only got as far as a shaved belly when a second pre-op x-ray from two different positions didn't confirm the stone.
But that is - as you say - no excuse for an unauthorised neuter.
 
Thanks again @Wiebke. I spoke to a nurse at the clinic this morning to let them know that Archie had passed, and was very brave in saying that I felt it was because he had too much unnecessary surgery. I couldn't really say more as I was far too upset, but I'll follow it up with an email. Just so devastated, my poor little friends ❤
 
piglette said:
Thanks again @Wiebke. I spoke to a nurse at the clinic this morning to let them know that Archie had passed, and was very brave in saying that I felt it was because he had too much unnecessary surgery. I couldn't really say more as I was far too upset, but I'll follow it up with an email. Just so devastated, my poor little friends ❤
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HUGS
 
So sorry to hear about your lovely piggies.
I certainly wouldn't go back to that vets again. They should not be performing any surgery or treatment without your consent.
You are a very caring owner and did everything right for your piggies.
I too would be very angry and totally agree with @Wiebke.
Sending you and little Badger massive hugs.
Sleep tight little piggies.xx
 
I am so sorry for the loss of your piggies. Please be kind to yourself. Huge hugs, we are all here for you x

sleep well little ones

RIP Liko & Archie
 
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