Guinea pig blood in urine and sludge

[GuineaPig Mom]

This morning, while cleaning my guinea pig's cage, I found sludge and small dots of blood in his cage. Later, I also heard him squeaking in pain (probably? while going to the restroom).
Could the bleeding have been caused by the sludge? Or could he have a UTI or bladder stones?

For now I replaced his bedding with a clean guineadad fleece bedding. I also started to syringe-feed him some water and will start removing high calcium foods from his diet. I also ordered oxbow urinary tract supplements and increased his vitamin C intake.

Does anyone have any advice on what else I should do for him?

I don't think going to the vet is an option for me. I've went to 5 different vets, and none of them have ever cured my guinea pigs and two of them died the night after bringing them back from the vet. The vet that is at least better than the others are booked out till late January.
Moreover, recently I took this guinea pig to the emergency vet because he was kinda lethargic. However, when I brought him back from the vet he was doing even worse than when I brought him in. I don't know what they did to him but he had tear marks on his face and had even developed severe bloat because they didn't even feed him. When I complained to them, they suddenly started talking about him becoming blind and having neurological problems. I recently got him feeling better again, but now he has a urinary problem

Is there no other choice other than to take him to the vet?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear you don’t have access to a good vet, but your piggy will need to see a vet - we can’t know what may be causing it and only a vet can diagnose and treat it - a piggy will need pain meds and antibiotics in the case of a UTI. X rays, pain meds and potentially surgery in the case of a stone.

Changing his diet to a lower calcium calcium one is a good thing to do but such changes take weeks to have any effect on the calcium levels in his body but also won’t cure any current calcium related issues ie changing diet wont get rid of a stone.
Also ensure you keep pellets limited to one tablespoon per pig per day and filter drinking water. Pellets and water usually contain more calcium than the highest calcium veg.

Please ensure you switch to daily weight checks so you can more closely monitor his hay intake. This will also you to step in more quickly with syringe feeding a proper recovery feed or mushed pellets if he loses weight and allowan you to adjust the amount of syringe feed needed (should it becomes necessary).

 

[Free Ranger]

Hi and welcome. I understand that after a few difficult vet experiences it can put you off but they are not all the same - it's just finding someone you can get on with. Sometimes I see a 'new' vet at my practice and am always a little tense because each has their own ideas! Have a look at the guinea lynx website to see if there are any recommended vets in your area Guinea Lynx :: GL's Vet List or maybe even have a look at their Rescue locator as we have had sucess finding vets in the past by contacting rescues and seeing which vets they use for their piggies - these guys have often had a lot of piggy practice! Guinea Lynx :: Rescue Organizations

You piggy will at the very least need antibiotics and pain relief. In the past we have had stones but in our experience there has always bee a UTI as well, and treating that has bought relief to poor piggy. Sometimes the pain and red-tinged urine has been UTI without any stones. For us that has been the most common thing. The way my vet works is to start with antibiotics and a good dose of pain relief (meloxicam - here the brand names are metacam or loxicom) because if piggy is in pain they try to hold in the urine which makes the problem worse. Sometimes they drip and are wet on the tummy (for boars) or have a dirty looking bottom (sows). They will feel round piggy's bits in case they can feel a little lump of a stone stuck in the urethra. With girls this can sometimes be extracted manually (ouch!) but boars have more trouble. But they don't always find anything - sometimes it's just UTI plain and simple.

Our symptoms usually improve within 2 or 3 days of starting antibiotics. If they don't you either need different ABs (because of resistance) or the problem is not bacterial infection. Personally, as I said, for us it has been bacterial infection - although we have needed to change antibiotics once after about 4 days because of resistance and piggy showing no improvement. The second type did the job. The second step for my vet is to do an x-ray for stones. They will do it conscious by swaddling piggy tightly in a towel. If the symptoms have cleared up and piggy seems fine they don't insist but they always recommend and I usually take them up on it. Girls can sometimes pass a stone, boys usually can't and they offer surgery. I lost one lovely boy after a stone surgery - it is a big deal for them and there is no guarantee of success as another stone can form again within weeks. Sometimes, esp if he is older and he seems happy enough, people will choose to let him live out as much of his life as possible on pain relief.

Calcium sludge does not always mean stones are there. One of my girls eats more than her fair share of the (limited) pellet food and she often had white crusty pee - it's the natural way they expel excess calcium - it's just that too much can sometimes cause a problem. I keep an eye on her and less so on the other two - she's bottom pig so I don't know how she gets away with it really! They all have very low Ca water. Limiting pellets really helps with calcium issues. Mine get fresh grass everyday which is part of a 'wet' diet - you can't really increase veggies too much or they start to bloat, but you can pre-soak their veg in filtered water to increase fluid intake.

If you make no progress I think you can arrange a bladder 'flushing' procedure but I don't know how common this is or whether it works for boars. But definitely first rule out possible UTI. There can be crystals which form in the sludge and cause problems in the bladder walls. The glucosamine in your bladder support supplement will help the bladder walls but as P&B said above this can take a few weeks to help. Syringing water is a bit risky as piggy can inhale some and develop respiratory problems on top of everything else (yes - the voice of bitter experience!) but if you are supplementing his diet with support feeding (like Critical Care, Recovery, Emeraid etc) you can just make the slurry extra sloppy by adding more water. Foods like cucumber are also very watery. One of my sows once had a fluid bolus injected under the skin. She was trying to pass a stone on her own. They gave her an opioid injection (which totally stoned her out, poor girl) and then pushed a lot of fluid under the skin of her shoulder so it made a big lump. Over the next 4-6 hours the fluid was absorbed into the body and she peed like a tap. Now I'm not sure she had a stone there. She had already passed one - but her x-ray showed something that was either another stone or an accumulation of sludge at the exit from the bladder. Afterwards there was nothing, so the procedure did work and she had a good rinse out - I've never seen so much pee!

Sorry for the massive post. I'm just trying to let you know that although there are lots of things the vet has to consider there are also lots of ways to tackle different problems but first thing's first - get a vet appt and prob some ABs and certainly some pain relief. That might well be all you need. And good luck! x

 

[Wiebke]

This morning, while cleaning my guinea pig's cage, I found sludge and small dots of blood in his cage. Later, I also heard him squeaking in pain (probably? while going to the restroom).
Could the bleeding have been caused by the sludge? Or could he have a UTI or bladder stones?

For now I replaced his bedding with a clean guineadad fleece bedding. I also started to syringe-feed him some water and will start removing high calcium foods from his diet. I also ordered oxbow urinary tract supplements and increased his vitamin C intake.

Does anyone have any advice on what else I should do for him?

I don't think going to the vet is an option for me. I've went to 5 different vets, and none of them have ever cured my guinea pigs and two of them died the night after bringing them back from the vet. The vet that is at least better than the others are booked out till late January.
Moreover, recently I took this guinea pig to the emergency vet because he was kinda lethargic. However, when I brought him back from the vet he was doing even worse than when I brought him in. I don't know what they did to him but he had tear marks on his face and had even developed severe bloat because they didn't even feed him. When I complained to them, they suddenly started talking about him becoming blind and having neurological problems. I recently got him feeling better again, but now he has a urinary problem

Is there no other choice other than to take him to the vet?

Hi and welcome

I fully agree with @Piggies&buns that you need to see a vet to check what is exactly going on so it can be dealt with correctly.

You may find our diet recommendations helpful for the longer term (see chapter special diets) but which won't help you with the current problem - just with hopefully preventing a repeat, unless you are dealing with a sterile recurring cystititis (sterile IC); which is usually diagnosed by default once all other issues in the urinary tract have been excluded.

The dietary changes will take some week to work their way through the body. Please be aware that more calcium in the food comes actually with the pellets (even no added calcium ones) and water intake than in veg (reduce pellets to 1 tablespoon per piggy per day and filter your water), unless you feed a lot of high calcium and oxalate veg. Our diet recommendations are based on long term experience so we know that they work in keeping in bladder stones/sludge down. There is a soft spot in the diet between too much and too little calcium and oxalate; you want to find your balance in it in with your individual local conditions.
Please keep in mind that hay and fresh green, dog pee free growing grass (which is high in vitamin C and reason why guinea pigs have never had any need to make their own) are the vast bulk of a guinea pig diet and that preferably green veg and fresh herbs and a small amount of pellets (if wished) are basically replacing the supplementary role of wild forage.
Here is the link: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

All the best!

 

[GuineaPig Mom]

T

Hi and welcome. I understand that after a few difficult vet experiences it can put you off but they are not all the same - it's just finding someone you can get on with. Sometimes I see a 'new' vet at my practice and am always a little tense because each has their own ideas! Have a look at the guinea lynx website to see if there are any recommended vets in your area Guinea Lynx :: GL's Vet List or maybe even have a look at their Rescue locator as we have had sucess finding vets in the past by contacting rescues and seeing which vets they use for their piggies - these guys have often had a lot of piggy practice! Guinea Lynx :: Rescue Organizations

You piggy will at the very least need antibiotics and pain relief. In the past we have had stones but in our experience there has always bee a UTI as well, and treating that has bought relief to poor piggy. Sometimes the pain and red-tinged urine has been UTI without any stones. For us that has been the most common thing. The way my vet works is to start with antibiotics and a good dose of pain relief (meloxicam - here the brand names are metacam or loxicom) because if piggy is in pain they try to hold in the urine which makes the problem worse. Sometimes they drip and are wet on the tummy (for boars) or have a dirty looking bottom (sows). They will feel round piggy's bits in case they can feel a little lump of a stone stuck in the urethra. With girls this can sometimes be extracted manually (ouch!) but boars have more trouble. But they don't always find anything - sometimes it's just UTI plain and simple.

Our symptoms usually improve within 2 or 3 days of starting antibiotics. If they don't you either need different ABs (because of resistance) or the problem is not bacterial infection. Personally, as I said, for us it has been bacterial infection - although we have needed to change antibiotics once after about 4 days because of resistance and piggy showing no improvement. The second type did the job. The second step for my vet is to do an x-ray for stones. They will do it conscious by swaddling piggy tightly in a towel. If the symptoms have cleared up and piggy seems fine they don't insist but they always recommend and I usually take them up on it. Girls can sometimes pass a stone, boys usually can't and they offer surgery. I lost one lovely boy after a stone surgery - it is a big deal for them and there is no guarantee of success as another stone can form again within weeks. Sometimes, esp if he is older and he seems happy enough, people will choose to let him live out as much of his life as possible on pain relief.

Calcium sludge does not always mean stones are there. One of my girls eats more than her fair share of the (limited) pellet food and she often had white crusty pee - it's the natural way they expel excess calcium - it's just that too much can sometimes cause a problem. I keep an eye on her and less so on the other two - she's bottom pig so I don't know how she gets away with it really! They all have very low Ca water. Limiting pellets really helps with calcium issues. Mine get fresh grass everyday which is part of a 'wet' diet - you can't really increase veggies too much or they start to bloat, but you can pre-soak their veg in filtered water to increase fluid intake.

If you make no progress I think you can arrange a bladder 'flushing' procedure but I don't know how common this is or whether it works for boars. But definitely first rule out possible UTI. There can be crystals which form in the sludge and cause problems in the bladder walls. The glucosamine in your bladder support supplement will help the bladder walls but as P&B said above this can take a few weeks to help. Syringing water is a bit risky as piggy can inhale some and develop respiratory problems on top of everything else (yes - the voice of bitter experience!) but if you are supplementing his diet with support feeding (like Critical Care, Recovery, Emeraid etc) you can just make the slurry extra sloppy by adding more water. Foods like cucumber are also very watery. One of my sows once had a fluid bolus injected under the skin. She was trying to pass a stone on her own. They gave her an opioid injection (which totally stoned her out, poor girl) and then pushed a lot of fluid under the skin of her shoulder so it made a big lump. Over the next 4-6 hours the fluid was absorbed into the body and she peed like a tap. Now I'm not sure she had a stone there. She had already passed one - but her x-ray showed something that was either another stone or an accumulation of sludge at the exit from the bladder. Afterwards there was nothing, so the procedure did work and she had a good rinse out - I've never seen so much pee!

Sorry for the massive post. I'm just trying to let you know that although there are lots of things the vet has to consider there are also lots of ways to tackle different problems but first thing's first - get a vet appt and prob some ABs and certainly some pain relief. That might well be all you need. And good luck!

Thank you very very much for your reply, I was able to adjust a lot of things for my guinea pig thanks to your reply!
As I mentioned in my post, my guinea pig went to the vet a week back. At that time, they gave me antibiotics (trimethoprim sulfa) and pain meds (meloxicam) for him to take. But, since he was very stressed out and didn't have very healthy poo due to the bloat they caused, I didn't feed the antibiotics and fed him pain meds for a few days.
So, I was thinking would it be okay to try feeding him the antibiotics and pain meds I received that time to him and see if he improves to rule out UTI? Since if he doesn't improve from the antibiotics it would most likely be another problem such as bladder stones and at that time I would bring him to a different vet
Also, after some researching I found that young guinea pigs typically don't get bladder stones and my guinea pig is only 1 years old, but is there also a chance of him getting stones?

 

[Wiebke]

T

Thank you very very much for your reply, I was able to adjust a lot of things for my guinea pig thanks to your reply!
As I mentioned in my post, my guinea pig went to the vet a week back. At that time, they gave me antibiotics (trimethoprim sulfa) and pain meds (meloxicam) for him to take. But, since he was very stressed out and didn't have very healthy poo due to the bloat they caused, I didn't feed the antibiotics and fed him pain meds for a few days.
So, I was thinking would it be okay to try feeding him the antibiotics and pain meds I received that time to him and see if he improves to rule out UTI? Since if he doesn't improve from the antibiotics it would most likely be another problem such as bladder stones and at that time I would bring him to a different vet
Also, after some researching I found that young guinea pigs typically don't get bladder stones and my guinea pig is only 1 years old, but is there also a chance of him getting stones?

Hi!

We have seen the odd case of young piggies having stones from a grossly calcium overladen diet but they are fairly rare.

If your piggy has had a bad reaction trimethoprim sulfa (better known as bactrim), please contact your vet and ask for another antibiotic.

Your piggy can have a) a bacterial urine infection (UTI), b) a stone or sludge or c) a sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) insterstitial cystitis which cannot be cured by an antibiotic - the latter is increasingly common, mostly diagnosed by default after all other urinary tract issues have been excluded. Sterile IC can only be managed but not healed and is not well known outside vet circles that see plenty of guinea pigs.

However, you cannot self-diagnose and you have to make sure that you know exactly what you are up against.

Very sorry that it is difficult with the sensitivity against an antibiotic.

 

[Free Ranger]

As a (much shorter) addition to that last massive post I should say that although you can get some indication of whether an antibiotic is working by day 3 we always finish the course - which could be anything from 5 days to 3 weeks - but then we've never had the gut disruption which would make me rethink that. When I had a girl on the 3 week course we got some probiotic to sprinkle in the critical care and I gave this in between her AB doses.

Bear in mind that pain from a UTI or stone etc can also cause erratic eating habits that can lead to dodgy guts. One poster had a girl who was fiercely chewing at something in the cage to distract from her discomfort (I think it was a wooden tunnel? Can't quite remember, sorry) and this impacted her eating and made her guts erratic. I know that if mine start to chew and shred newspaper there is often something underlying... tonight I found my old boy busy shredding in one corner and when I checked his back end he was more bunged up than usual. It sure is a balancing act!