Guinea Pig Bullying

[brittanyanne1999]

Hi, I have 2 guinea pigs that i got in February of this year. I got them at PetSmart and they are both girls. I got them when they were a couple months old and they were already in the same kennel and bonded. I was told they played a lot with each other and would sleep only together, so they were practically sisters. I got them and they loved being around each other, they would play constantly, running around, sleeping cuddled together. They are almost 2 years and one guinea pig (Autumn) is harassing the other (Cookie). They are almost 2 years old and I thought it was maybe something wrong or causing them pain but after taking them to the vet, I was told they were completely okay. Below I will attach a picture of the cage size. They were so close and now Cookie could be simply drinking water peacefully or snacking and Autumn will just randomly run at her and attack her leaving Cookie shaken up and squealing very loud. She still comes out to eat and drink sometimes but anytime that Autumn comes around her, she sits still and does not move at all. She stays in her hide house all day, she seems like shes being harassed all the time. I used to have them seperated for a while because it just seemed way too constant. Now they are together and they were friendly at first but Autumn is doing the same thing all over again. No blood has ever been drawn or enough violence to have to give her away, it just looks like over harassment and bullying. Cookie is a little sweetheart and even if shes just sleeping, Autumn will come and attack her out of the blue. I really need someones thoughts on this because I feel like I am just at a loss for what to do at this point.

 

[Siikibam]

Is the ‘attacking’ a constant thing or there are periods of a couple of weeks in between? Their cage looks to be big enough so I don’t think it’s a lack of space that’s the issue. also, when you’re dealing with them, do you start with the dominant piggy?

The only thing I can think of is ovarian cysts. Did the vet rule them out? Sometimes there are no symptoms.

 

[Livia Rabideau]

Is the ‘attacking’ a constant thing or there are periods of a couple of weeks in between? Their cage looks to be big enough so I don’t think it’s a lack of space that’s the issue. also, when you’re dealing with them, do you start with the dominant piggy?

The only thing I can think of is ovarian cysts. Did the vet rule them out? Sometimes there are no symptoms.

I was thinking this as well. Or maybe just strong seasons?

 

[brittanyanne1999]

I was thinking this as well. Or maybe just strong seasons?

Is the ‘attacking’ a constant thing or there are periods of a couple of weeks in between? Their cage looks to be big enough so I don’t think it’s a lack of space that’s the issue. also, when you’re dealing with them, do you start with the dominant piggy?

The only thing I can think of is ovarian cysts. Did the vet rule them out? Sometimes there are no symptoms.

Yes, the vet ruled it out. they did xrays and everything. When I pick them up, Cookie is usually first because she doesnt cause too much problems to pick her up meaning she doesnt run away so much she just lets me grab her. They are both given equal treats and attention. The attacking is constant. Every about 10 minutes, Cookie is crying and squealing

 

[Livia Rabideau]

Yes, the vet ruled it out. they did xrays and everything. When I pick them up, Cookie is usually first because she doesnt cause too much problems to pick her up meaning she doesnt run away so much she just lets me grab her. They are both given equal treats and attention. The attacking is constant. Every about 10 minutes, Cookie is crying and squealing

You may want to do a trial separation to see if the one being attacked is happier. I recently went through thi with my boys. They both have new friends and are happy.

 

[brittanyanne1999]

You may want to do a trial separation to see if the one being attacked is happier. I recently went through thi with my boys. They both have new friends and are happy.

I had them seperated for a while I'm gonna say around 3 months they were apart but it was a thin gate to where they could still talk. Cookie was SO happy and would be more outgoing during that time and Autumn wouldnt really come out too much. Autumn seems sad on her own, almost depressed. Shes fine right now, she runs and eats and enjoys her time but Cookie hates being together with her. I dont have money or room to get another guinea if i wanted to try to smoothen out the issues. I feel like Cookie is sad when theyre together and Autumn is sad when theyre apart. I just dont get it.

 

[Livia Rabideau]

Exactly how my boys were. The one being picked on was happier. The bully was as sad. I'm sorry. I hope you can figure everything out.

 

[Piggies&buns]

It sound like their relationship as failed. The way to determine a failed bond is that the pig who is being bullied will perk up when they are separated. The one being the bully will always be upset by it, but it isn’t the bully’s attitude towards the separation that you need to watch. It’s the pig being bullied. So, the fact the cookie seems happier when separated, means their relationship has most likely broken down and living apart, but next to each other, will have to be what happens going forward.

It does happen, even piggies who have been together a while, can suddenly fall out and unfortunately, once that happens there is not anything you can do to make them like each other again.

The link below should help you
Bonds In Trouble
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

 

[brittanyanne1999]

It sound like their relationship as failed. The way to determine a failed bond is that the pig who is being bullied will perk up when they are separated. The one being the bully will always be upset by it, but it isn’t the bully’s attitude towards the separation that you need to watch. It’s the pig being bullied. So, the fact the cookie seems happier when separated, means their relationship has most likely broken down and living apart, but next to each other, will have to be what happens going forward.

It does happen, even piggies who have been together a while, can suddenly fall out and unfortunately, once that happens there is not anything you can do to make them like each other again.

The link below should help you
Bonds In Trouble
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

I wouldn't think it failed. I think maybe they might be going through strong hormonal seasons like someone previously said. Theyre still very young, barely over a year old. They still play around sometimes and they can peacefully eat or drink together at times. She doesn't block her from anything and she likes to cuddle but sometimes she just randomly jumps at her out of nowhere. It seems confusing I know but thank you for your help and suggestions

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ok. Your posts are slightly contradicting so it is hard to tell from the written word. If it is due to seasons, then most of the time they will be fine together and the periods of ‘bullying’ will only be for a few days every few weeks when they are in season but you’ve also said that it is constant and that is the definition of bullying. Also the fact that one is happier to be away from the other, is also a sign of a dysfunctional bond.
if you are picking up cookie first, then that can in itself cause a problem. You should always handle the dominant pig first (so, autumn should be handled first), as if you handle the submissive first, it can cause the dominant to feel the need to assert even more dominance.

 

[Siikibam]

I was going to respond re picking up. You ALWAYS have to deal with the dominant pig first. Not doing so, as @Piggies&buns said, can also cause issues. You have to honour their hierarchy system.

So do you think it’s a strong season, or is it a daily occurrence?

 

[brittanyanne1999]

I was going to respond re picking up. You ALWAYS have to deal with the dominant pig first. Not doing so, as @Piggies&buns said, can also cause issues. You have to honour their hierarchy system.

So do you think it’s a strong season, or is it a daily occurrence?

It's a daily thing. An example would be Cookie could be coming out of her hidey to drink some water and Autumn will take notice and just run up on her. I feel like Autumn just does it whenever she feels like it. I mean, I know I can't really discipline because theyre not dogs but its hard to understand because i feel so bad for Cookie when shes hiding all day just to avoid autumn

 

[brittanyanne1999]

Ok. Your posts are slightly contradicting so it is hard to tell from the written word. If it is due to seasons, then most of the time they will be fine together and the periods of ‘bullying’ will only be for a few days every few weeks when they are in season but you’ve also said that it is constant and that is the definition of bullying. Also the fact that one is happier to be away from the other, is also a sign of a dysfunctional bond.
if you are picking up cookie first, then that can in itself cause a problem. You should always handle the dominant pig first (so, autumn should be handled first), as if you handle the submissive first, it can cause the dominant to feel the need to assert even more dominance.

I see exactly what youre saying. I'm sorry it sounds so confusing its just a hard situation to explain. What you said about her feeling the need to assert more dominance seems like exactly what it happening. When i do this though, does this mean shes given treats first, attention first, picked up first and everything?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes autumn has to have everything done for her first. However, if it is a daily occurrence then it isn’t a hormonal/being in season dominance. It is more likely to be issues within their relationship, as per my original advice. If cookie is harassed daily by autumn, is trying to avoid being near her and appears happier when they aren’t together (ie during a trial separation) then that is a dysfunctional bond potentially resulting in the need to be separated. Please read Bonds In Trouble and see if any of this relates to the situation you are seeing.

 

[brittanyanne1999]

Yes autumn has to have everything done for her first. However, if it is a daily occurrence then it isn’t a hormonal/being in season dominance. It is more likely to be issues within their relationship, as per my original advice. If cookie is harassed daily by autumn, is trying to avoid being near her and appears happier when they aren’t together (ie during a trial separation) then that is a dysfunctional bond potentially resulting in the need to be separated. Please read Bonds In Trouble and see if any of this relates to the situation you are seeing.

It seems like there has been a bad falling out between the two. They have been together since babies and now. Every night, there is a new issue. The only thing I really pick them up for right now is to take their medicine because Cookie developed pneumonia and it was passing to Autumn (they are okay now). They were seperated while Cookie first showed signs because I didn't want Autumn attacking her, causing her to hyperventilate or get stressed. At this moment, Cookie is eating her food and Autumn is eating hay. It's just so out of random that Autumn feels the need to pretty much jump Cookie without reasoning. I pick Cookie up first because she is a lot easier to handle and she doesnt make a fuss like Autumn does. There are times where they will both be on completely opposite sides of the cage. Cookie will be sleeping and Autumn will be as well. Cookie will come out for food and be peacefully eating, Autumn will perk up hearing Cookie, come out of her hidey and attack her. After this, Cookie begins squealing very loud and Autumn circles her, chattering her teeth.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Squealing is usually submission. Cookie is saying there she accepts autumn is in charge. This should
be enough for the dominant pig (autumn) to go about her business and leave cookie alone but if autumn still continues to pursue cookie and refuse to stop, then there is where an issue can start and is bullying.
As we have said, Picking up cookie first is not respecting their hierarchy and can exacerbate problems.
We obviously can’t see exactly what is going on. All I can suggest is that you read the guides and perhaps try a trial separation if you are worried that there may be problems, and see how cookie responds (autumn will be upset by it, but it is not her reaction you need to use to gauge their relationship, if is cookie’s that counts) to it. If cookie appears happier out of autumn’s company, then that is usually the sign of a dysfunctional bond.

 

[brittanyanne1999]

Squealing is usually submission. Cookie is saying there she accepts autumn is in charge. This should
be enough for the dominant pig (autumn) to go about her business and leave cookie alone but if autumn still continues to pursue cookie and refuse to stop, then there is where an issue can start and is bullying.
As we have said, Picking up cookie first is not respecting their hierarchy and can exacerbate problems.
We obviously can’t see exactly what is going on. All I can suggest is that you read the guides and perhaps try a trial separation if you are worried that there may be problems, and see how cookie responds (autumn will be upset by it, but it is not her reaction you need to use to gauge their relationship, if is cookie’s that counts) to it. If cookie appears happier out of autumn’s company, then that is usually the sign of a dysfunctional bond.

Okay, thank you very much for your help. I appreciate it.