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Guinea Pig Constipated After Second Dental Work. Please Help!

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Lillix

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Hello,
I need some advice on my 22 months male guinea pig. He had stomach and X-Rays done and his molars filed down on the 29th of Dec, but apparently they were still too long. Another vet from the same clinic saw him on the 8th of Jan and realised that he his molars needed to be filed down again. This was done two days ago on the 9th of Jan, when the doctors also discovered that he had an injury in his gum and treated it. We've brought him him on the 9th and given him the same prescribed treatment he was given the first time: Critical Care food 7ml/three times a day + 1/4 smashed stomach protector Ranitidina Teva, 2ml Metacam / once a day, but this time because of the gum injury he was also given Antibiotics 1ml / once a day.
I think that his teeth have been filed correctly this time, and he has even eaten a bit of fresh grass and lettuce, but he hasn't pooed since we brought him back after the second intervention, and this is 48 hours. We also give him water and fresh orange juice (which he has always loved) with the syringe, and went to the clinic today. The nurse told us that there is nothing we can do, that he pooed during the 2 days when he was in the hospital, that the medication he is receiving should help him relax his intestines and the constipation can't be a reaction from the antibiotics.
The only thing she said is that we should give him less Critical Care food but more often and if he still doesn't poo, we should take him back on Monday. She says that maybe he had a fear attack and this blocked his intestines, that guinea pigs can't be helped in any way if something like this happens and I am going desperate. The doctors told us something similar yesterday when we spoke with them, but today being Saturday they are not at the clinic.
Please help, if you have experience or any suggestions! Thank you!
 
Just had a quick look at this and noticed 2ml Metacam once a day. This seems a lot. Minky who has had numerous problems over the last year has been prescribed 0.3ml twice a day. Please double check the doseage as most vets tend to under prescribe. Minky has also had problems pooing then suddenly doing over 50 poos in 10 minutes. I find that 1ml of Boots baby gripe water after her morning & evening veggies & meds helps & she's now pooing about an hour after this. I'm currently using the peppermint flavoured gripe water. Unsweetened fruit juice helps too. Minky gets 2ml of Tomato Juice on a morning. It's low in sugar because I'm Diabetic & it's what I have at breakfast time.I just save a little for her. Critical Care is often hated by piggies. I struggled to get 20ml into Minky a day but it's best if you use a 1ml syringe with the end cut off. Are you using a probiotic. Minky was have Bio-Lapis which you can buy without a prescription from various on line sites such as Vet UK. Because it shouldn't be kept for more than 24 hours, I mix 1/3 of a sachet with 16ml of water & keep this in the fridge between doses. I give her it at breakfast, early afternoon and about 8pm. Also Fibreplex is good you can also get this from Vet UK. I give 1ml twice a day. It's also good when they're not eating. If he's really struggling to poo, try to lay him on his back on his lay & massage his tummy gently. If you've got an electric toothbrush (the vibrating kind) this is a great help too. Just make sure you have a puppy pad or towel on your lap because he might start pooing while he's laid in this position. See my post "Total Trust"

Hope he improves soon.
 
A piggy that doesn't eat properly needs hand feeding of either Critical Care or mushed up poos round the clock; at least 120ml over the course of 24 hours to keep his weight. You also need to syringe water, 1ml for every 3-5 ml of recovery food in order to prevent dehydration. I think that you are dealing with a combination of too little food and water - hance no pellets and hence the straining. The guts can start closing down after 24 hours. If things don't get better after upping his food intake, please have him seen and ask for a gut stimulant.

2ml metacam is a lot, even for cat metacam. Are you sure that it shouldn't be 0.2 ml (as for dog metacam)?
 
I am confused a little by all of this. Heres a few things i think:
- this sounds more like gut stasis than constipation
- 2ml of metacam is a big dosage, what strength does it say on the bottle (mg/ml)
- what antibiotic do you have your piggie on
- you need to be feeding more critical care than that, as Wiebke has said 120ml over 24hours. There is still much debate in the veterinary world if little and often is better than every 4 -6 hourly feeds. Personally i try to feed 20ml every 4 hours.
- the aneasthetic would have considerably slowed the guts down and they will need to get going again, the ranitidine will certainly help with this as a stimulant, but the vets might want to consider adding metoclopramide
- have you considered seeing a different vet just for a second opinion on this?

Hope things start to pick up soon.

x
 
Hi everyone :) Thank you very much for your quick replies.

You're right about Metacam. The dosage is 0,2 ml and that's what we've been giving him once a day. Sorry for the mistake.

A few more details: in between the two dental works that were done to him, the first doctor only recommended Critical Care food, 7ml every eight hours, she didn't even tell me to give him water. I was worried that it wasn't enough food for him, searched the net and discovered that people were also giving their guineas fruit/veg pure or baby food. I consulted her, she wasn't very enthusiastic about that idea but she didn't say no either, she said that we could try small amounts. She also didn't say no to giving him water or the orange juice that I suggested. His food intakes and poos were regular then.

Things got a bit complicated when she saw him again on the 7th of Jan and said that everything seemed fine, couldn't understand why he still wasn't eating on his own but she wanted a second opinion of her colleague that was coming back from holiday the next day. So, we had to live Pixie there until the 8th. The second doctor said that his molars were still too long and they had to file them again. Unfortunately they postponed the dental work for another day because they had a medical emergency. When we finally took him back home on the 9th, they said that his teeth weren't growing in the right direction, that he could need dental work every two weeks and this wasn't a good option in their opinion and suggested that if he still doesn't eat on his own and his teeth start hurting him again, we should probably put him to sleep.

The gum injury was discovered only when they did the second dental work and the antibiotics he's been given is Ciprofloxacino 0,1ml / once a day (for 5 days).

So, we were very happy that he ate a little bit of fresh grass and a hay treat (doesn't touch the natural hay though), when we've realised that he hadn't pooed. I've check again just now in his house and I discovered that he had pooed actually but only very little. We've massaged his tummy and around his anus and well, a bit more came out, normal colour and not dry at all. He never seemed to feel uncomfortable or in pain.

I am beginning to think now that indeed he might need more food actually. We'll probably try to alternate 4 ml of Critical Care with 4 syringes of vegetable/ fruit pure every four hours and checking on him regularly. What do you think?

His general state is good, better than before he had the dental work, he loves it to be held and my mother keeps him in a soft blanket with fresh veggies and fruits near him.

We live in one of the big cities in Spain but there are only two clinics that deal with exotic animals. No one recommends the other one for some reason, but we'll have to go there over the weekend if Pixie starts having more problems, since the clinic where he's been treated doesn't offer emergency assistance.
 
Can't add anymore than what has been advised above, but certainly agree with Stewy, Wiebke and Abi's advice. Am hoping you little one starts to get better soon.
 
Thank you, sport_billy. We'll be giving him more food, he just had some apple and banana pure and some water and as soon as we put him back in his house he peed and pooed a little. Not dry at all, so it might be that he needs some more food. We'll also give him a bit more Critical Care, the doctor said 7-10ml every 8 hours, but we will increase this quantity and split it in 4 hours takes. He's back in my mother's arms now, his favourite place in the world apparently but we're constantly giving him fresh grass, hay and vegetables.
 
More food will help, please keep us updated I hope he starts to pick up. Healing vibes and love to Pixie x
 
Please up the fibre content, as that is what keeps his guts going! Up to 80% of the daily food intake on a balanced normal diet should be hay, so please double or better triple or quadruple to the Critical Care amount. Pureed veg is nice (too much fruit can cause tummy upsets), but it shuld be only the icing on the cake. If he gets too little food or water for too long a time, he'll die despite the correct vet treatment. Sadly, many vets are not quite aware how crucial hand feeding is for guinea pigs with their extremely quick metabolism. Try to feed him bits of grass or chopped fresh herbs before every hand feeding session to encourage him to eat by himself.

http://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html
 
An addition to my earlier thread. You also need to weigh him daily. Best to do this at same time, maybe after a feed each day to get an accurate idea of weight loss or gain. Fresh grass is OK if you're not getting night frosts in your area but if you are then please avoid. Herbs such as coriander, parsley & mint are good. If he's not eating hay or veggies then he may also have mouth ulcers caused by the antibiotics. I took Minky on a 390 mile round trip to Simon Maddock at Northampton to discover that she had a mouthful of ulcers. After 2 days on Itrafungol she was eating by herself again.

Have you looked at the Vet Locator to see if you have a guinea pig savvy vet in your area. It's possible that you are already at a suitable vets but not seeing their best guinea pig vet. Another vet's visit on Monday if he's not picked up is essential & it's important that he's not losing too much weight so keep up the hand feeding.
 
PS: It is REALLY vital that he gets 120ml or more in recovery foods and solids over the course of 24 hours, whether little but often, or - if he takes it - in larger portions but bigger intervals. Very ill piggies often can cope with only a small amount of feed, so you need to to do it more often, even throughout the night. See how much he takes in one go and then plan out your daily/nightly routine according to that.
 
Thank you both :)

We will triple his Critical Care food and we will give it to him in 4hours takes.

Would you maybe be able to suggest how much liquids should he have? He has always loved fresh orange juice and used to have as much as he wanted. In summer, he even had 12 syringes one after another sometimes, but his normal orange juice takes were 5-6 syringes every morning. We never forced him, we simply stopped when he went away. We still give him 4-5 a day since he's been ill (26th of Dec).

How much wáter shoud I give him?

Thx!
 
Just saw your replies, Stewybus and Wieckbe. Thank you.

He is 22 months old, male and his weight used to be around 1070 gr. On the 29th of Dec, when the vet saw him the first time, he weighed 1050 gr and we've weighed him this afternoon, 963 gr.

The vet told me that I should weight him every day but she never told me what to do if he weighed less... We'll increase his food as said before.
 
Water: as much and as often as he will take! If he is dehydrated, he'll want to drink and will push for more.

Weighing him daily will help you to see how much is going in and coming out and whether you are feeding enough. it can often be very deceptive, especially with dental piggies to watch them chewing, only to discover on the scales that he is not actually processing enough food. Please try to weigh him at about the same time of the feeding cycle to the most reliable results.

This link here gives you a good guideline: http://www.guinealynx.info/weigh.html
 
Lillix said:
Just saw your replies, Stewybus and Wieckbe. Thank you.

He is 22 months old, male and his weight used to be around 1070 gr. On the 29th of Dec, when the vet saw him the first time, he weighed 1050 gr and we've weighed him this afternoon, 963 gr.

The vet told me that I should weight him every day but she never told me what to do if he weighed less... We'll increase his food as said before.
Click to expand...

If he's losing weight then food input needs to go up. I know it can be hard to feed with a syringe when they fight against it but you've got to persevere. If you can stabilise his weight until he starts recovering then you'll have really helped him through this. His current weight loss isn't severe but it's still more than what a well piggy would lose over same period.
 
I agree with what everyone else has said, he needs at least 120ml in a 24 hour period and more if possible. Also for every 5ml of critical care give 1ml of water. He also needs probiotics. If things don't start moving through soon he may need a gut stimulant such as Metoclopramide from the vets. I would also maybe split his pain relief dose into AM and PM.
 
Everyone seems to have covered the critical care thing. It does sound like if your piggie doesn't eat natural hay on its own then this may well be a large contributing factor to the dental disease. Piggies need to eat rough fibre constantly for their teeth to wear down constantly. Your piggie needs to eat this, so once your boy is feeling better it may be a good idea to try and get him to eat as much hay and grasses as much as you can.

x.
 
Thanks, Abi. We've started giving him 20ml of Critical Care food every 6 hours + 4ml of water. He's going to have his third take at 2 am. Besides we're giving him 4-5 ml fruit pure in between. Tomorow we'll give him a vegetable pure and his every day 4-5 ml of orange juice. He has pooed three times this afteroon/evening, very little amount but obviously he's not constipated as I thought initially. My mother agrees that more food is doing good and we're going to continue like this. His poos will improve too in a short while I suppose.

It was a very dificult decision to take to go against the doctors' instructions about food, but they left us with no alternative, seemed to have given up, and neither did Pixie's state this morning. We're constantly monitoring him and holding him in case we need to take him to see the emergency doctor. Hopefully this won't be the case.

It was extremely helpful and important to receive so much heart felt and experienced advice from all of you :)

P.S. He used to eat hay when he was fine and all kinds of fruits and vegetables besides his regular dry food, it is just now that he hardly touches it, even if we're constantly giving him new fresh fruit/grass/hay/veggies to stimulate him and offering it to him in very small pieces too. Hopefully he'll start eating on his own too soon.
 
Please be aware that guinea pigs should have fruit and tomato only twice a week. Too much can cause painful sores in mouth and lips, as well as open the door to fungal problems. Please replace most of your fruit intake with veg.

It is very normal for dental piggies to go off chewing after treatment, as things have been very painful for quite some time in the run up. He also may need another round of filing; it often takes more than one round, and some dedicated hand feeding to get things right again. One of our mods is running a sanctuary for dental piggies in conjuction with an experienced vet. it takes both care as well as flexible dental treatment, but they have pulled off some amazing results and have been able to send piggies back home to their loving owners after a few weeks that had been given up by their regular vets. Please take heart!

It would be great if you added your country, state (US/Aus) or county/general area (UK), so we can give you the appropriate links, advice and recommendations straight away. For our UK members, we have a piggy savvy vet locator on the top bar. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details/location.
 
Good news, everyone! :) This morning his droppings were fine, still a bit thinner than usual, but normal amount. So he doesn't have a digestion problem. Thank you all for your great help yesterday. It is much and deeply appreciated. :)

We'll continue like this with 20 ml Critical Care + 4 ml of wáter every four hours. We'll also split his pain relief dose into AM and PM, give him vegetable puree and besides fresh grass, hay and everything else he used to eat. We would be really happy if he started to eat again on his own.
 
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Wiebke said:
Please be aware that guinea pigs should have fruit and tomato only twice a week. Too much can cause painful sores in mouth and lips, as well as open the door to fungal problems. Please replace most of your fruit intake with veg.
Click to expand...

Great info, Wiebke. Thx! He used to love fresh grass, carrots, tomatoes, chard, lettuce, parsley, carrot leaves. He also liked apples, white grapes, watermelon and mandarins. Every now and then he used to have small amounts of other vegetables/ fruits too.

What vegetable purees do people normally give to ill guinea pigs? I wouldn't have a problem to make a vegetable puree for a person but for a guinea pig is a bit different and I was wondering if any of you have any possible suggestions.

Wiebke said:
It would be great if you added your country, state (US/Aus) or county/general area (UK), so we can give you the appropriate links, advice and recommendations straight away. For our UK members, we have a piggy savvy vet locator on the top bar. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details/location.
Click to expand...

We live in Seville, Spain and there are only two vet clinics that treat exotic animals in the city. The one we've been too is the most recommended one and while the first doctor from the clinic that treated him didn't file his molars enough and didn't see his pretty deep gum injury, the second doctor made a correct intervention. Pixie is so much more comfortable now when we feed him, he doesn't move his mouth in a strange way because of the pain anymore, his molars were filed as much as possible, his back gum injury was discovered, treated and given antibiotics.

What the doctors desagreed on was his teeth growing. The first one made teeth and stomach X- Rays and told us that his teeth were fine but a bit longer than they should and couldn't see another problem in the following days, but the second one knew that the molars hadn't been filed enough the first time and also told us that his teeth don't grow in the right direction and will be a constant problem.

We deeply love Pixie and we hope that he will fully recover, but we simply couldn't afford very expensive treatments if things continue like this much longer. Hopefully this won't be the case because it would be even more heartbreaking than it already is.
 
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Hi everyone :) I just wanted to let you know that Pixie ate some grass and some bread today :) He actually chewed for about 10 minutes when he ate the grass and a bit less when he ate the bread.

Four days ago when we brought him back from the vets he ate some grass and lettuce but didn't attempt again the second or the third day. He's had plenty to choose from today but he only wanted to eat the grass and the bread and this is wonderful anyway :)
 
Hello again. I thought that a quick update on Pixie would be nice, especially because so many people have helped so much in the first days after his second dental work that were critical and also because other people could be just as worried and lost as we were then.

It is now 10 days after his molars were filed down for the second time with general anaesthesia and Pixie is eating all the kinds of foods that he used to and almost the normal amount.

48 hours after we started feeding him 120 ml Critical Care a day, 20 syringes every 4 hours + 5 syringes of 7 ml water, he started to eat a bit of fresh grass, then the next day a bit more and he dared to eat something else too, and so on, he progressed every day a bit more. We gave him and still do constant attention, he spends most of the time during the day in my mother's arms, in his little sponge house covered with soft blankets, constantly being offered new fresh food to stimulate him. My mother is retired and this helps too.

He wasn't very keen on the Critical Care food but he was always fed the right amount. He sometimes ran after being given one syringe of CC in his house on the sofa and we started to offer him normal food to eat on his own in between the CC doses and he accepted it and started chewing. His feeding times took much longer than usual but he got more and more used to eating his normal food on his own again. We've also gradually decreased his CC doses.

We are very happy now, he is doing great, today is the first day that he hasn't received any Critical Care food because he's eating on his own, his grass, hay, dry food, carrots, parsley, etc.

Thank you again for your great help in those moments when we were desperate. All the best.
 
Hi everyone. A last quick and sad update this time.

As you already know the second week after the second dental work, Pixie was doing so much better, eating almost everything he used to eat and almost the normal amount, but in the third week he started again to have problems eating and the situation was getting worse by day, and again we had to complement what he was eating with Critical Care given with syringe.

We spoke again with the doctor, he reinforced that his teeth illness was chronic and we decided to put him to sleep. He had a happy last morning, when we brought so much fresh grass that he had his own little private garden on a thick blanket to walk on and eat, gave him every possible favourite fruit and vegetable and we really think he enjoyed himself and we could see that he was in less pain since we had also started given him Metacam again the previous day. We held him lots and we said good bye to him on the 30th Jan at 4 o'clock and buried him close to the previous guinea pig my mother had that lived for 7 years and was also a great joy in our lives.
 
Oh bless you, you tried so hard for him. RIP Pixie, popcorn free little one xx
 
Lillix said:
Hi everyone. A last quick and sad update this time.

As you already know the second week after the second dental work, Pixie was doing so much better, eating almost everything he used to eat and almost the normal amount, but in the third week he started again to have problems eating and the situation was getting worse by day, and again we had to complement what he was eating with Critical Care given with syringe.

We spoke again with the doctor, he reinforced that his teeth illness was chronic and we decided to put him to sleep. He had a happy last morning, when we brought so much fresh grass that he had his own little private garden on a thick blanket to walk on and eat, gave him every possible favourite fruit and vegetable and we really think he enjoyed himself and we could see that he was in less pain since we had also started given him Metacam again the previous day. We held him lots and we said good bye to him on the 30th Jan at 4 o'clock and buried him close to the previous guinea pig my mother had that lived for 7 years and was also a great joy in our lives.
Click to expand...

I'm really sad this has happened to Pixie especially when he seemed to be getting better. I know exactly how you feel, because we lost our little Mousey on the 28th. She too had seemed to be getting over an op but went downhill overnight Monday/Tuesday & died on Tuesday afternoon. She too is laid to rest in our back garden with Madam who also died nearly a year ago.
 
I'm so sorry, sounds like you made the right decision and he had wonderful last few hours with you.
 
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