Guinea pig gone off veg a bit/lighter poops - had possible bladder concerns given metacam. Advice please, thank you

[jennyc12]

Hello, I am hoping to get some advice about one of the indoor Guinea pigs I’ve adopted.

One of my Guinea pigs has had some potential bladder issues made sounds when pooping which the vet gave me metacam for, he’s had it more than once and after this medicine it seemed better and he stopped making noise. The other day he was making noises again and there was a little blood in his urine, he wasn’t eating much hay and had gone off the veg options usually has.

I took him to the vet who told me to continue the metacam and use the urine support science selection support tablets I’ve ordered to see and if it happens once twice more he’ll scan him. The last vet said give .5 which I did first thing but weened down today as that seems a lot. I was worried he wasn’t eating hay but I got a new bag of the hay he likes and he began eating it straight away so that was my error I didn’t realise they don’t like the end of the bag bit! Feel really bad I didn’t swap it earlier.

I’ve noticed he’s kinda gone off the veg plate options recently including his usual romaine/little gem lettuce/cuc etc the vet I saw last time told me to reduce all dark greens due to high calcium. As he’d not had much veg and I was worried I tried different things including spinach, herbs, tomatoes etc, I don’t want to give too much off them as they’re higher calcium, but he comped away at those at straight away.

He’s pooped more today than the weekend, I note he’s had lots of hay compared to the other day, but it’s a lighter brown poop than normal but back to normal size again.

They do have pellets out, as there’s two of them and they free roam it’s hard to fully monitor who eats what when I’m not there. I can tell he is feeling better than the other day as he’s started moving round their bedroom again, the other day he just hid underneath his hiding space at the back and wasn’t lying down more sat up, today he’s going in and out and it napping lying down in the edge. He has come out onto the mat to meet us few times today, he is drinking and seems more perky then the weekend but usually he’s straight on to trying the veg plate when I bring it in but seeming bit fussier about it atm, sniffs and isn’t bothered by what I usually offer. I have tried to check his teeth and they seem ok and the same as the other ones. The vet checked him over, weighted him and said his heart and everything in his tummy etc felt fine.

Does anyone have any advice about the issue of going off veg, I tried grass which he normally has and he’s had a bit but has been a bit fussy having just a little, and I wondered if his change of wanting those veg options is because he’s not felt well recently or if it might be the metacam and what I should do.

The other one is greedy and bold so hard to compare them and what should be ok. I was debating putting them outside as I thought being inside all the time might be limiting their vitamin d.

Thank you in advance all for your advice and supporting an anxious first time Guinea pig owner, Jen

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry to hear he is unwell.

When you say 0.5 do you mean 0.5ml of metacam. Is it dog (1.5 mg/ml) or cat metacam (0.5 mg/ml)?
Is it once or twice a day?
0.5ml isn’t a lot (particularly if it is cat version) for a guinea pig (they can take higher doses than that and twice a day).
Pain can cause them to stop eating so it is important to ensure pain is properly managed.

When you have health concerns it’s important to switch from the routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh your piggy daily (each morning is best). This enables you to monitor hay intake more closely and step in with syringe feeding recovery feed if weight is being lost (often happens during a period of illness). Weight is lost due to a reduction in hay intake which cannot be monitored by eye.
Hay makes up three quarters of their daily food intake so monitoring with the weight checks and Syringe feeding is essential during a period of illness as hay/fibre intake must be replaced to keep the gut functioning.

The bladder issue could be a multitude of things - a bacterial infection (treatment is antibiotics); a non bacterial infection (called sterile cystitis which is a condition that can’t be cured but is managed with daily metacam and glucosamine); or something like sludge/crystals/stones.
Sterile cystitis can only be diagnosed once everything else has been ruled out but it is the most common cause of bladder issues in indoor piggies.

I’ve added a guide below explaining these further

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

Going off veg is much less of an issue when compared to going off hay. Going off hay, losing weight is a big problem whereas not eating veg or being a bit fussy with it during a period of illness is not necessarily an immediate concern.

The lighter brown poop would signify that he has eaten more hay than veg (which is fine).

Wiebke's Guide to Poops

The four safe daily veggies are lettuce, cucumber, bell pepper and coriander.
Spinach is high in calcium so a leaf or two once a week is ok but you can’t give it often.
Tomatoes are too acidic to be in the diet as more than a tiny amount as an occasional treat.

Pellets are largely unimportant in a balanced diet so ensure they are strictly kept to one tablespoon per pig per day; they should never have unlimited access to pellets. Pellets and water contain more calcium than even the highest calcium veg.

Weight monitoring and management
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

 

[jennyc12]

Sorry to hear he is unwell.

When you say 0.5 do you mean 0.5ml of metacam. Is it dog (1.5 mg/ml) or cat metacam (0.5 mg/ml)?
Is it once or twice a day?
0.5ml isn’t a lot (particularly if it is cat version) for a guinea pig (they can take higher doses than that and twice a day).
Pain can cause them to stop eating so it is important to ensure pain is properly managed.

When you have health concerns it’s important to switch from the routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh your piggy daily (each morning is best). This enables you to monitor hay intake more closely and step in with syringe feeding recovery feed if weight is being lost (often happens during a period of illness). Weight is lost due to a reduction in hay intake which cannot be monitored by eye.
Hay makes up three quarters of their daily food intake so monitoring with the weight checks and Syringe feeding is essential during a period of illness as hay/fibre intake must be replaced to keep the gut functioning.

The bladder issue could be a multitude of things - a bacterial infection (treatment is antibiotics); a non bacterial infection (called sterile cystitis which is a condition that can’t be cured but is managed with daily metacam and glucosamine); or something like sludge/crystals/stones.
Sterile cystitis can only be diagnosed once everything else has been ruled out but it is the most common cause of bladder issues in indoor piggies.

I’ve added a guide below explaining these further

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

Going off veg is much less of an issue when compared to going off hay. Going off hay, losing weight is a big problem whereas not eating veg or being a bit fussy with it during a period of illness is not necessarily an immediate concern.

The lighter brown poop would signify that he has eaten more hay than veg (which is fine).

Wiebke's Guide to Poops

The four safe daily veggies are lettuce, cucumber, bell pepper and coriander.
Spinach is high in calcium so a leaf or two once a week is ok but you can’t give it often.
Tomatoes are too acidic to be in the diet as more than a tiny amount as an occasional treat.

Pellets are largely unimportant in a balanced diet so ensure they are strictly kept to one tablespoon per pig per day; they should never have unlimited access to pellets. Pellets and water contain more calcium than even the highest calcium veg.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/weight-monitoring-and-management.171577/
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Hello, thank you for responding so quickly, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain so kindly and providing details and links.

It was the cat metacam, 0.5 once a day it just sounded quite a bit but that’s made me feel better from what you said about amounts. I will buy some scales as I don’t have any, the vet weighed him said he’d not lost a lot when I asked after he’d not had much less than .5 he said and he wasn’t worried and I think it was more I had given the bitty hay as he’s comping away loads today on the new fresh bag and drinking regularly.

Ok I’ll keep trying with the veg, I usually do lettuce and cuc as a minimum, hopefully once the week of medication is done might be feeling better, I do think he’s much perkier, been watching him and he’s been plodding about in out and of his tent/hay baskets, cage etc which is lovely to see.

I will definitely read the articles, thank you again for explaining and for your kindness

 

[jennyc12]

Sorry to hear he is unwell.

When you say 0.5 do you mean 0.5ml of metacam. Is it dog (1.5 mg/ml) or cat metacam (0.5 mg/ml)?
Is it once or twice a day?
0.5ml isn’t a lot (particularly if it is cat version) for a guinea pig (they can take higher doses than that and twice a day).
Pain can cause them to stop eating so it is important to ensure pain is properly managed.

When you have health concerns it’s important to switch from the routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh your piggy daily (each morning is best). This enables you to monitor hay intake more closely and step in with syringe feeding recovery feed if weight is being lost (often happens during a period of illness). Weight is lost due to a reduction in hay intake which cannot be monitored by eye.
Hay makes up three quarters of their daily food intake so monitoring with the weight checks and Syringe feeding is essential during a period of illness as hay/fibre intake must be replaced to keep the gut functioning.

The bladder issue could be a multitude of things - a bacterial infection (treatment is antibiotics); a non bacterial infection (called sterile cystitis which is a condition that can’t be cured but is managed with daily metacam and glucosamine); or something like sludge/crystals/stones.
Sterile cystitis can only be diagnosed once everything else has been ruled out but it is the most common cause of bladder issues in indoor piggies.

I’ve added a guide below explaining these further

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

Going off veg is much less of an issue when compared to going off hay. Going off hay, losing weight is a big problem whereas not eating veg or being a bit fussy with it during a period of illness is not necessarily an immediate concern.

The lighter brown poop would signify that he has eaten more hay than veg (which is fine).

Wiebke's Guide to Poops

The four safe daily veggies are lettuce, cucumber, bell pepper and coriander.
Spinach is high in calcium so a leaf or two once a week is ok but you can’t give it often.
Tomatoes are too acidic to be in the diet as more than a tiny amount as an occasional treat.

Pellets are largely unimportant in a balanced diet so ensure they are strictly kept to one tablespoon per pig per day; they should never have unlimited access to pellets. Pellets and water contain more calcium than even the highest calcium veg.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/weight-monitoring-and-management.171577/
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Hello, sorry just to add how long of him not really wanting lettuce/cuc/peppers before I should be worried?

He comes over excited like he wants it, sniffs it all then wanders off atm even the coriander which he used to like but I cut out weeks ago when the last vet told me no herbs

 

[Piggies&buns]

For information purposes on dosages only to reassure you - a 1kg piggy can have up to 1.2ml of cat metacam twice a day.

Definitely get some scales. Ideally they are weighed every week as part of routine care. This enables you to spot illness promptly and step in with daily weight checks and syringe feeding quickly. Any weight loss of 50g or more requires you to become concerned. 100g in 24 hours is an emergency. So the vet saying not a lot isn’t actually very helpful!

It’s hay intake that you need to be concerned about first and foremost (hence the importance of the weight checks).

They can have herbs - it’s about moderation! Coriander can be given daily though.

 

[Piggies&buns]

To clarify, their one cup of veg each per day is supplementary only making around 15% of the diet so while it plays an important role in replacing wild forage, it isn’t a main part of the diet

 

[Merab]

Just want to offer you support

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry your piggy is poorly.

 

[jennyc12]

Just want to offer you support

Thank you x

 

[jennyc12]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry your piggy is poorly.

Thank you x

 

[jennyc12]

Thank you all, I appreciate your kindness. I have ordered the Kavee medical kit which includes the scales and syringe food following your advice. He’s nibbling on his hay and was thrilled to try his new urine support treat

 

[Piggies&buns]

How is your boy doing?

 

[jennyc12]

How is your boy doing?

Thank you for asking and thinking of him. He’s picked up a bit, moving about to his different spots for hay and eating a little more veg each day. As advised we also tried the some kavee food which he loved, I’ve seen one slightly pink wee so keeping an eye on it but the pain noise when pooping has only been once today which is good.
Here he is (ginger) with his brother, this was when he stated moving about more after a few days hiding

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad he is perking up a little.

Is his weight stable when you weigh him each morning?

 

[jennyc12]

He’s drinking quite a bit, it’s warm today but we are monitoring him. Can I ask, how long can he be on the 0.5 cat metacam?

We got the scales delivered Friday, it’s coming up as 1.2kg for the past two days we’ve weighed him, is that weight ok?

 

[Piggies&buns]

He’s drinking quite a bit, it’s warm today but we are monitoring him. Can I ask, how long can he be on the 0.5 cat metacam?

We got the scales delivered Friday, it’s coming up as 1.2kg for the past two days we’ve weighed him, is that weight ok?

He can be on the metacam as long as he needs it.
It doesn’t damage their kidneys like it does in cats - many of us have had piggies (or rabbits in my case) on metacam for long term conditions (years in some cases) such as arthritis or IC.

It’s not about whether the weight is ok, it’s about whether it is consistent - which it sounds to be and that means he is eating enough hay

 

[jennyc12]

Thank you for your help and guidance, you’ve made me feel so much better and provided more guidance than the vets.

I’ll keep weighing him as advised to make sure it’s consistent, i bought the Kavee medical kit with everything in, I’ve seen him nibbling hay and moving to different points so hopefully he’s feeling much better

Thank you again, grateful for your support and kindness.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad to hear it.

(I’m not sure what a kavee medical kit consists of - we don’t recommend keeping anything which can go out of date such as recovery feed)

 

[jennyc12]

I’m glad to hear it.

(I’m not sure what a kavee medical kit consists of - we don’t recommend keeping anything which can go out of date such as recovery feed)

It had scales etc in and the recovery feed. If we didn’t use that are there any syringe based recipes you’d advise? Thank you again for your help

 

[Piggies&buns]

It had scales etc in and the recovery feed. If we didn’t use that are there any syringe based recipes you’d advise? Thank you again for your help

In an emergency we recommend using their normal pellets and mushing them with water to make a slurry. You still get proper recovery feed such as oxbow critical care or emeraid but the mushed pellets are always available so you can use them while you get the recovery feed in.

How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

 

[jennyc12]

In an emergency we recommend using their normal pellets and mushing them with water to make a slurry. You still get proper recovery feed such as oxbow critical care or emeraid but the mushed pellets are always available so you can use them while you get the recovery feed in.

How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

Thank you for your advice

 

[jennyc12]

Thank you for your advice

In an emergency we recommend using their normal pellets and mushing them with water to make a slurry. You still get proper recovery feed such as oxbow critical care or emeraid but the mushed pellets are always available so you can use them while you get the recovery feed in.

How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

He’s still very picky about veg he used to like, he’ll nibble bits but has gone off lettuce etc, he ate a bit of cuc the other day which he’s not done for a few days, we gave him a little of a mixed veg bag to just see and he’ll eat a few bits or crunchy ones but has gone super picky since being unwell this time.
When should we worry he’s gone off his veg? He also keeps nibbling his cardboard hiding place, do you think it might be his teeth? He is eating hay and his teeth seem the same as the other pigs

 

[jennyc12]

He’s still very picky about veg he used to like, he’ll nibble bits but has gone off lettuce etc, he ate a bit of cuc the other day which he’s not done for a few days, we gave him a little of a mixed veg bag to just see and he’ll eat a few bits or crunchy ones but has gone super picky since being unwell this time.
When should we worry he’s gone off his veg? He also keeps nibbling his cardboard hiding place, do you think it might be his teeth? He is eating hay and his teeth seem the same as the other pigs

I did an very watered sprinkle of that food mix on the veg and he seems to be eating it as he likes that didn’t know if it was boredom or bland flavours he’s gone off sinc being sick. They’ve never eaten pepper etc, I got them from a school where they used to be given veg bags loaded up on a Friday and left until Monday

 

[Piggies&buns]

If his weight is stable signifying he is eating enough hay then I wouldn’t worry about him being picky about veg at this point.

Nibbling at cardboard - they can do that just as something to do but it can also be as a way to settle their tummies if they are feeling a bit off.

Nibbling cardboard would not be a typical sign of dental issues - you would more associate dental signs as things like losing weight through refusal to chew hay (dental issues result in pain which can stop even wanting to eat hay or hard things), dropping food due to not being able to manoeuvre it in their mouths properly, drooling.
Another sign of dental problems can be slanted incisors. The incisors are self sharpening and are kept in check by the correct action of the molars. If something has gone wrong with the molars such as spurs, then piggies chew unevenly which can then result in the incisors showing signs of uneven wear.
However, If you are concerned about his teeth then he would need a knowledgeable vet to check them (often under sedation and usually an x ray) you as an owner won’t be able to check the molars where is where issues often can be.

 

[jennyc12]

If his weight is stable signifying he is eating enough hay then I wouldn’t worry about him being picky about veg at this point.

Nibbling at cardboard - they can do that just as something to do but it can also be as a way to settle their tummies if they are feeling a bit off.

Nibbling cardboard would not be a typical sign of dental issues - you would more associate dental signs as things like losing weight through refusal to chew hay (dental issues result in pain which can stop even wanting to eat hay or hard things), dropping food due to not being able to manoeuvre it in their mouths properly, drooling.
Another sign of dental problems can be slanted incisors. The incisors are self sharpening and are kept in check by the correct action of the molars. If something has gone wrong with the molars such as spurs, then piggies chew unevenly which can then result in the incisors showing signs of uneven wear.
However, If you are concerned about his teeth then he would need a knowledgeable vet to check them (often under sedation and usually an x ray) you as an owner won’t be able to check the molars where is where issues often can be.

Ok thank you, when I looked online before joining here it said it said issues if they don’t have veg for a day and about vitamin c issues. I weighed him today he’s 1169 so down a little bit but when I have checked on him he does seem to be nibbling on his hay so hopefully it’s not his teeth

Perhaps he still feels a little off or maybe he’s become fussy since being ill but I’ll keep checking his weight

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ok thank you, when I looked online before joining here it said it said issues if they don’t have veg for a day and about vitamin c issues. I weighed him today he’s 1169 so down a little bit but when I have checked on him he does seem to be nibbling on his hay so hopefully it’s not his teeth

Perhaps he still feels a little off or maybe he’s become fussy since being ill but I’ll keep checking his weight

That’s not the case. Eg a piggy with a mild digestive upset can need to be kept off veg for up to a week to allow it to settle.
Pellets are fortified with vit c so as he is still eating those then he is getting what he needs.

So he has gone down in weight by 31g. That is normal fluctuation and is not of concern at this point.
We only talk of weight loss once it hits 50g (and that point you start to offer syringe feeds). If a piggy loses 100g on 24-48 hours then it is an emergency situation.

 

[jennyc12]

That’s not the case. Eg a piggy with a mild digestive upset can need to be kept off veg for up to a week to allow it to settle.
Pellets are fortified with vit c so as he is still eating those then he is getting what he needs.

So he has gone down in weight by 31g. That is normal fluctuation and is not of concern at this point.
We only talk of weight loss once it hits 50g (and that point you start to offer syringe feeds). If a piggy loses 100g on 24-48 hours then it is an emergency situation.

I’m glad I found this forum been really helpful clarifying incorrect, I’ll weigh him later just to keep and eye on him.
He’s probably fed up of me checking on him now ha
Thanks for your help

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad I found this forum been really helpful clarifying incorrect, I’ll weigh him later just to keep and eye on him.
He’s probably fed up of me checking on him now ha
Thanks for your help

Make sure you only weigh him once a day. And then compare it to the day before. Ideally weigh at the same time each day

If you weigh more than once a day all you will do is pick up fluctuation and make it inaccurate

 

[jennyc12]

Hello, I weighed him this morning and he’s 1121g should I take him to the vets now? He’s moving about fine but he was 1200 the other day

 

[jennyc12]

Hello, I weighed him this morning and he’s 1121g should I take him to the vets now? He’s moving about fine but he was 1200 the other day

I gave him a little of the kavee mix and the metcam (the vet told me to stop it after a week which was Friday) he’s now he’s nibbling on a small bit of lettuce and hay but keeps eating the cardboard box