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Dental Guinea pig grinding teeth post dental treatment

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Maisie&Mila

New Born Pup
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My 3yo pig had her incisors clipped and her back molars shaved about three weeks ago and she's been making okay progress with the syringe feeding and gaining weight.

However, over the past few days, I've noticed her teeth crunching/grinding. It got particularly loud today. She's on painkillers (loxicom), but we are also giving her Gabapentin which we were told is more of a nerve based painkiller (as her teeth maybe sensitive post op) rather than anti inflam.

Did anyone experience this?
 
I’m sorry to hear this.
Is she eating any hay by herself?
Is your vet knowledgeable in piggy dentals?
 
Hello - she was eating by herself but is now only eating via syringe. She also has a good go at a mashed up banana but isn’t interested in anything else.

We took her back the vet (best recommend pig vet in our area) who has now confirmed her jaw is out of alignment and her back molars have overgrown again. He’s referred us to their sister clinic in the next town but told us to prepare for the worst.

I’ve heard about Simon Maddocks based down in a Northampton so we gave his centre a call (3 hour drive away by the way) so we’re going to share Maisie’s records for a phone consultation. I just worry it’s now a lost cause … malocclusion now a misaligned jaw.
 
Maisie&Mila said:
Hello - she was eating by herself but is now only eating via syringe. She also has a good go at a mashed up banana but isn’t interested in anything else.

We took her back the vet (best recommend pig vet in our area) who has now confirmed her jaw is out of alignment and her back molars have overgrown again. He’s referred us to their sister clinic in the next town but told us to prepare for the worst.

I’ve heard about Simon Maddocks based down in a Northampton so we gave his centre a call (3 hour drive away by the way) so we’re going to share Maisie’s records for a phone consultation. I just worry it’s now a lost cause … malocclusion now a misaligned jaw.
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Simon & Kim are great with piggy dentals and they do them without anaesthetic when they can. I'm also 3 hours away but have taken 2 of mine there and both came back sorted out. Also helped with a lot of others a few years ago via The Piggy Train. Would definitely recommend the trip.
 
It’s looking like we’ll make the trip. We’re certainly prepared to. It’s just a long way to go for a consultation with no op, and having to go home and come back to get things done. If we have a promising phone consultation I’m hoping we can do it in one trip.

Jaw misalignment is something I’ve not seen too much about on this forum. Hoping Simon can help!
 
"Jaw misalignment" has been cited before in other threads. It always seems to sound like something fundamentally genetic and untreatable, and the same thing always strikes me: piggy has done perfectly well for a number of years so how come there's not been a problem before. In young pigs who were still growing and maturing I could maybe believe it, but this mid-life onset of misalignment... well, to me that suggests a cause behind it. Perhaps a painful molar spur that has developed and caused piggy to eat on one side, or perhaps a deep gum abscess that isn't easy to identify. Maybe you saw her incisors (front biting teeth) were slanted to one side? Or maybe she was losing weight and nosing at hay she wasn't able to eat. I've only had one piggy dental and they gave me antibiotics and metacam painkiller for one week.

If you can get in at the Maddocks it's your best chance of sorting her out. They really do have an amazing reputation. I'm sure there are other great dental vets out there but we don't know until we try. My vets are generalists but even so they don't 'clip' piggy incisors like rabbit incisors are clipped. They 'burr' them (using what is essentially a teeny tiny whirring saw) to prevent splitting. It's a tough gig to do a full dental as things can be missed quite easily in that muscular mouth. But even a half-decent dental will deteriorate if the underlying problem isn't identified. Can she eat grass if she's off her hay - if you can find any? Is she still able to slurp up mushed up pellets or 'recovery' food from a bowl or syringe? It's important that she gets her fibre - veggies alone aren't enough to keep the gut healthy.

One of the most respected forum members (and founders!) actually does piggy boarding near the Cat & Rabbit in Northampton and can arrange to board and look after your piggy if things can't be sorted on the day. But it might be a simple problem. If you need more information tag in @furryfriends (TEAS) to enquire. Both TEAS and C&R prices are very affordable 😉 💕 Good luck little lady x
 
Thanks so much. So we have booked in to see Simon at his clinic on Friday morning. It’s going to be a big drive but it’s got to be done.

We were told that they’ll be able to check her over and do any work that’s required on the day - we’ll just have to wait which we’re prepared to do. I’m just hoping they come fix her misaligned jaw and sort her teeth out. It’s a big ask but all we can do is hope.

Good to know about @furryfriends (TEAS) - we’ll he taking an overnight bag in case we need to stay over. Boarding Maisie at TEAS might need to be an option if we need to. How do we enquire?
 
You really won’t be disappointed when you go see Simon or Kim, thry are the best and you will know exactly what’s wrong and any work that needs doing will be done by conscious dental treatment which is much safer and quicker than General Anaesthetic (it’s a lot cheaper too)
We used to travel with our Ted, it was a 600 mile round trip but it was worth every mile to have him back eating hay again
Good luck 🤞
 
Debbie is wonderful, she looked after Ted over lockdown, she is very experienced with dental piggies and runs a sanctuary for piggies with long term dental problems.
The Excellent Adventure Sanctuary you can contact her from this website, I think her boarding business is Little Badgers Pet Care?
 
Thanks everyone. We really appreciate the supportive comments.

Slight update from a local second opinion
  • Incisors look fine.
  • Molars have been growing again since the op three weeks ago and will continue to grow needing further dental work. Every 4-5 weeks (for life) if they don’t grow back normally
  • Assumption is that her top molars could be pushing through the roots potentially causing pain (need X-ray to confirm) as she isn’t voluntarily eating herself except soft banana. Apparently this is significant and can’t be cured. Not sure why else she wouldn’t be eating by herself?
until we see Simon our options are​
  • X-ray to figure confirm/rule out molar root issue
  • If confirmed options are:
    • 4-5 week dental burring visits for life. She would also be on painkillers permanently
    • PTS
  • If ruled out
    • 4-5 dental burring visits with temporary painkillers
The second vet also said he would want to burr her molars down almost to the gum to allow her to eat soft food in the hope that it would buy her more time to recover and potentially get onto hay. But she’ll most likely just stick to the softer foods.

*sigh *exhale
 
I would get an appt to see Simon or Kim as quickly as you can. I have never heard of burring the molars down almost to the gum (very worrying :yikes:)All the teeth need to move freely over each other (I.e. top onto bottom teeth) If the teeth don’t meet how on earth can she chew anything? Dental surgery in guinea pigs is a very gentle filing approach, literally millimetres otherwise the teeth become totally unbalanced and then grow in all directions if they have nothing to wear against.
Simon and Kim generally don’t X-ray they manually see how the jaws and teeth move/rub together and can instinctively feel when there’s a spur or overgrowth. They see around 40 guinea pigs a week and their experience is second to none. I would be try and get to see them as soon as you can 🤞

@furryfriends (TEAS) can you advice please
 
Only just catching up with this. So you’re seeing Simon tomorrow? You’re definitely doing the right thing. If needed, I offer boarding through my pet care business at a special rate of £30 per week. This covers all supportive care, transport to vet appointments, fresh daily veggies and unlimited hay. I just ask that you provide their nuggets. I hope the appointment goes well xx
 
Tomorrow at 11am is the best we can do. Fingers crossed Simon can do something. Bags are packed for an early start.

@furryfriends (TEAS) thanks a lot for the offer. Do you have space tomorrow if it’s needed?

Maisie’s had a good day. Seems lively and we’ve managed to get over a full RDA of critical care in her. Fingers crossed x
 
Best of luck for tomorrow, for the journey and also Maisie's treatment. Hope they can tell you straight away what is causing her teeth problems x
 
Maisie&Mila said:
Tomorrow at 11am is the best we can do. Fingers crossed Simon can do something. Bags are packed for an early start.

@furryfriends (TEAS) thanks a lot for the offer. Do you have space tomorrow if it’s needed?

Maisie’s had a good day. Seems lively and we’ve managed to get over a full RDA of critical care in her. Fingers crossed x
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I can pop another cage into the piggy log cabin, but I am out most of today, as I have a rare day off and won't be home until late afternoon. If you need Maisie to board, you can either leave her at the vets and I will collect her from there, or it would mean you hanging around until I get home. Simon should be able to do any dental treatment during the appointment time, but it is if he finds something that is going to need surgery or further investigation, then she may need to stay for treatment, but he would most likely fit her into his ops slots today. Keep me posted. I am going to private message you my phone no. If I don't answer, leave me a message and I will call you back.
 
*update*

Simon was great … I didn’t expect any less to be honest having read the glowing reviews. Had high expectations from what I read and he exceeded those.

So here we go,
  • Maisie has an abscess and swelling on the right side of her jaw which caused her eye to bulge a little
  • Abscess can’t be pinpointed currently as it’s across most of her right side.
  • Her teeth weren’t that bad and the jaw wasn’t misaligned
Treatment
  • Teeth have been filed down (no GA)
  • Prescribed some heavy antibiotics
  • Told increase Loxicom and gabapentin dosage. Can’t remember exact amounts but we have it all in the paperwork
  • Lined up another appointment in two weeks time. We’re hoping the antibiotics will clear her abscess but it’s likely it will just slow it down l, potentially concentrating it in an area for an op.
What a day. We’re glad to be heading home with our little fluffy lady. We needed this lifeline, will keep you updated on our progress.

Thanks again everyone
 
Maisie&Mila said:
*update*

Simon was great … I didn’t expect any less to be honest having read the glowing reviews. Had high expectations from what I read and he exceeded those.

So here we go,
  • Maisie has an abscess and swelling on the right side of her jaw which caused her eye to bulge a little
  • Abscess can’t be pinpointed currently as it’s across most of her right side.
  • Her teeth weren’t that bad and the jaw wasn’t misaligned
Treatment
  • Teeth have been filed down (no GA)
  • Prescribed some heavy antibiotics
  • Told increase Loxicom and gabapentin dosage. Can’t remember exact amounts but we have it all in the paperwork
  • Lined up another appointment in two weeks time. We’re hoping the antibiotics will clear her abscess but it’s likely it will just slow it down l, potentially concentrating it in an area for an op.
What a day. We’re glad to be heading home with our little fluffy lady. We needed this lifeline, will keep you updated on our progress.

Thanks again everyone
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So glad you got to see Simon and you now know what the issues are,I agree he's brilliant.I wouldn't have known about him if it wasn't for this forum and I don't live far away.Sending healing vibes for Maisie xx
 
TEAS wouldn’t exist without Simon! He’s the reason I set it up! I couldn’t do what I do without him. He’s absolutely amazing with the piggies, as he is with cats and rabbits too! He genuinely cares about them too! Such a lovely man!
 
So glad you managed to get there and see Simon, he is brilliant and now you have a proper diagnosis it will put your mind at rest. I hope the AB’s work well and start to heal the abscess, good to hear that Maise’s teeth aren’t too bad either x
 
Maisie’s having a good go at some veggies and the pellets - still doesn’t have anywhere near her chewing capability, but hadn’t since we had the first burr 3 weeks ago. A lot more promising signs this time around though. Although today we’ve noticed she’s started making strange breathing noises with the occasional sneeze. Hoping this is just the symptom of the 300m round trip

She’s sniffing around the hay but doesn’t seem to want to eat any… we’ll just have to have patience.

Quick question guys. How best are we to administer Pro C to make sure she’s having it (to counter the ABs)rather than relying on her drinking out of the cage bottle? Is it just a case of using 1ml syringes having made up 200ml 1 scoop batch or can we increase the concentration?
 
Maisie&Mila said:
Maisie’s having a good go at some veggies and the pellets - still doesn’t have anywhere near her chewing capability, but hadn’t since we had the first burr 3 weeks ago. A lot more promising signs this time around though. Although today we’ve noticed she’s started making strange breathing noises with the occasional sneeze. Hoping this is just the symptom of the 300m round trip

She’s sniffing around the hay but doesn’t seem to want to eat any… we’ll just have to have patience.

Quick question guys. How best are we to administer Pro C to make sure she’s having it (to counter the ABs)rather than relying on her drinking out of the cage bottle? Is it just a case of using 1ml syringes having made up 200ml 1 scoop batch or can we increase the concentration?
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Definitely don’t add it to a water bottle. It’s not recommended to ever put anything into drinking water.
If she is being syringe fed critical care, then you can add a pinch of it into the syringe feed. Most reliable method as you know it’s going in!
You can also sprinkle it on veg or pellets, or add a bit into water and syringe it.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Definitely don’t add it to a water bottle. It’s not recommended to ever put anything into drinking water.
If she is being syringe fed critical care, then you can add a pinch of it into the syringe feed. Most reliable method as you know it’s going in!
You can also sprinkle it on veg or pellets, or add a bit into water and syringe it.
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Great idea. I’ve been sprinkling it on her recovery feed this afternoon.
 
Update:

So Maisie is making steady progress. Simon told us to keep her weight above 900g until we see him again on the 20th which has been successful.

We’re only feeding her one full scoop of critical care now having started at 2 scoops following Simons treatment. She gained weight from 908, and is now averaging out at about c930g (based on one scoop CC per day). Massive improvement from our local vet as we had her maxed out on her CC volume following her first op and she wasn’t eating by herself. As soon as we’d recuse CC her weight would drop!

She’s a lot more interested in veggies but doesn’t really go for the hay. She has a good sniff around but doesn’t actually eat anything. How can we encourage her to eat hay?

Strangely, she eats fresh grass relatively well. More so late in the evening than any other part of the day so we’ve been rinsing our front garden for her ha!
 
This is great newe and all going to the right direction. They do lose confidence eating hay, it’s the first thing they stop eating and the very last thing to resume. A bowl of plain dry porridge oats are great and easy to for dental piggies, you could try her with some
Hope it goes really well on the 20th 🤞
 
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@furryfriends (TEAS) yes she has a good go at the grass so we’re trying to give her as much as possible. I’m so glad she’s gaining/maintaining weight with much less CC.

@Bill & Ted great shout re the oats. I’ll see if perks up her interests. We’re going to try and cut up the hay into shorter pieces to see if that moves the dial.

Oh she absolutely hates the antibiotics by the way. Surprisingly isn’t as keen on the dog Loxicom either. Loved the cat version!
 
Maisie&Mila said:
@furryfriends (TEAS) yes she has a good go at the grass so we’re trying to give her as much as possible. I’m so glad she’s gaining/maintaining weight with much less CC.

@Bill & Ted great shout re the oats. I’ll see if perks up her interests. We’re going to try and cut up the hay into shorter pieces to see if that moves the dial.

Oh she absolutely hates the antibiotics by the way. Surprisingly isn’t as keen on the dog Loxicom either. Loved the cat version!
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Is she on Zithromax? None of the piggies like the taste! I’m surprised she’s not keen on the Loxicom. I normally have them all lining up at the bars for their Loxicom 😂
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Is she on Zithromax? None of the piggies like the taste! I’m surprised she’s not keen on the Loxicom. I normally have them all lining up at the bars for their Loxicom 😂
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Yep - that’s the AB she’s on. Well she loved the cat version but our latest one from Simon is the dog one. More concentrated with some of the key ingredients … she’s not a fan ha
 
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