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Guinea Pig "Head" Abscess?

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An up and down day.

I'm about to try and get some sleep as I didn't get much at all last night with all the reading up I'm trying to do.

I wasn't there when it happened, but the piggy had another seizure/ fit this afternoon. Apparently it involved her looking rather perturbed, followed by launching forwards and finding the wall of the plastic hostpital box in her way. Her eye was also darting around.

I got there a little while later and she was calm, and although clearly very tired she wanted some veggies followed by a munch on some hay. I picked up some Osteocare today and she was offered a 1ml syringe full, which she took without any real persuading (was offered as she lay in teh tank, and she took it with no complaints). Given her diet I'm still struggling with the nutrient deficiency theory, especially calcium, but maybe there's something causing a calcium uptake issue. Equally, given how hard her body has been fighting the infection, there could simply be not enough of other minerals and vitamins to go round, so the vit D, magnesium and zinc in teh Osteocare may be of use. The fits do seem to happen in batches over a day or two, then no more for a week or more till the next round of them. No puss this time (so far), don't know if that's good or bad, although her eye is still very crusty (both sides are crusty, but the left is far more so).

Early days with the medication route we're taking, as we were going down the path advised by the vet for the last three weeks. Whether we're doing the right thing or not I just don't know, but I know we're at least doing something, which is what the piggy deserves. Found a local vet who is open to the idea of x ray without anaesthetic, although sceptical of getting clear plates. Their exotic is on holiday next week, but if the piggy is still with us I'm thinking of booking her in if I can't get anywhere with some other ones that weren't open today. We're not quite 24 hours into the Zithromax course, and only started the Osteocare this afternoon, so too early to say if they'll be of benefit. I only hope she's got enough fight to give the treatments time to work.
 
Be careful with the Osteocare dose. 1 ml is rather high in one go.
I am always at a loss to know why vets need to give sedation/anaesthetic for an xray.
Am I being cynical in thinking.....extra fee!?
 
alcesterpigs said:
Be careful with the Osteocare dose. 1 ml is rather high in one go.
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It seems to be the generally accepted dose for a very short term treatment, although I agree it seems like a lot to give!

I read something interesting (if unconvincing), a rescue who had found piggies who were perfectly healthy refused to take it, those who were ill would lap it up. There might be some credence to that as they may have cravings that are the body saying what they need, or it could be a poorly piggie has a taste for synthetic flavourings and is so used to syringes they'll take anything!

I am always at a loss to know why vets need to give sedation/anaesthetic for an xray.
Am I being cynical in thinking.....extra fee!?
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I suspect it's money, but not entirely in that way. More insurance - They're so afraid of going outside their old school knowlegde and leaving themselves open to bing sued when they foul up and the furry falls off the table that they wont risk it. And of course insurance means nobody can be in the room when the x ray is taken (trust me, I've pushed to be allowed to be present, with lead apron if reuired, all to no avail in the past). I do suspect there are sometimes issues with keeping the piggie absolutely still enough to get the right angle on the plates to see a decent amount of what's going on, but people talk about x rays as if they're the same as long expsure astronomy or night scene photos where exposure times can be in the minutes or more. Not the split second burst of radiation they really are.
 
furryfriends said:
Quite a few of my pigs have had zithromax now without any ill effect and it's worked so well. They have definitely tolerated it better that baytril. It does seem to work when all else fails.
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My Joe can vouch for Zithromax he had weeks and weeks of Baytril and Septrin then Debbie recommended Zithromax and it cleared his URI up straight away and he has been clear since December now after having a bad chest for five months.

Hope your piggy is well soonx)
 
lindsay7 said:
My Joe can vouch for Zithromax he had weeks and weeks of Baytril and Septrin then Debbie recommended Zithromax and it cleared his URI up straight away and he has been clear since December now after having a bad chest for five months.

Hope your piggy is well soonx)
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Lindsay, I'm pleased it worked so well for Joe. I really do believe that if anything is going to work, then Zithromax will.


How's your piggy today? You are doing a fantastic job, and I so hope she is feeling much better soon.
 
0.5ml of Osteocare twice daily is the"normal" dose.
I do not believe gps know what is good for them, they like it or they don't. Many owners seem to think that gps will not eat poisonous plants because they instinctively know what is bad for them. Wrong.
 
I do get a little concerned that so many people seem to feel the most important thing in animal health care is the avoidance of general anaesthetic. Anaesthesia is a massive medical breakthrough - both for humans and animals. In competent hands there should be no fear. I have gone through eight general anaesthetics with pigs. No problem.
 
I've got a degu who has had roughly 6 dental operations, all at the same vet. All under GA.

Two or three times he has come home more relaxed and active than the cagemate who went to keep him company (resulting in me wondering if they did the right degu at times!). Another couple of times he has come home a little low, but been fine after a good night of rest. And twice I didn't think he would make it to the following morning, one of those times he appeared to take months to regain his balance and normal level of activity so I suspect he may have had a minor stroke.

In every case he was very active bright and alert on the day of the dental, no outward signs as to a change in overall health. One thing that does change (frequently) at the vet I used was the nursing staff. It's not impossible to believe either the anasthetic itself, or post op monitoring, varied at times.

A GA shouldn't be a serious concern if done by a comepetent person I agree - But it is still a concern and why take the extra risk if a process such as an x ray can be successfully acheived without it? Aside from the money for a second or third x ray plate if the animal doesn't stay still enough, what is there to lose by trying the no risk method first?

Not to mention my lack in faith of there being that many competent persons around when it comes to such things...

An update on the piggy - I've not been round today, but last I heard she's munching away, holding her head a bit better than yesterday, and her eyes seem more relaxed. No miracle cure to report I'm afraid, but then treatment takes time to work of course!
 
I had a piggie who went through 4 anesthetics for dental work and my piggie was fine each and every time. I think it's best to not to have them though if possible :)
 
Lucinda said:
I do get a little concerned that so many people seem to feel the most important thing in animal health care is the avoidance of general anaesthetic. Anaesthesia is a massive medical breakthrough - both for humans and animals. In competent hands there should be no fear. I have gone through eight general anaesthetics with pigs. No problem.
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You were very lucky that all your gp`s survived.I HAVE lost a piggy to anesthetic,and the op was done by a vet who specialises in gp`s,.The op was a success and went well,but despite a half hour try at resucitation by the vet and a nurse who keeps gp`s herself,the piggy did not come round.

There is always a risk with anesthesia,for animals and humans,so why put gp`s under for x ray or dentals or other minor proceedures.


Maryh
 
There are NO CIRCUMSTANCES under which sedation or a general anaesthetic is needed for either the examination or treatment of a gps teeth.
Any general anaesthetic IS a serious matter, even for a competent operator.
There has to be an absolute clinicalneed for either sedation or a ga, the inability of the operator to safely handle a conscious gp is NOT an valid need.
 
It is not about the ethics of ga, it is about ga as an adjunct to treatment. Knowing what to avoid is just as important as knowing what to do.
 
Hi and a huge welcome from me in OZ (aka Australia) :) i've just been reading and catching up on your thread :(
I'm so sorry to hear the problems the dear little one has gone thru.......very glad to hear tho that you're using the antibiotics suggested and that she seems to be responding xx>>>
I understand your concerns totally about a GA whilst a piggie is ill i've been thru this with my little man and he had many many GA's over more than a year and a half for his horrible toofie problems. Sometimes it's the only road to go down, as long as you're confident with your vet and stress to them that least amount of time is best whilst under a GA (this is just my experience......and no i'm not a vet, just a piggie granny) i was also always there to greet our little guy when he came too, with loves and a little treat once he was awake enough to swallow etc ..
I do wish you all the best xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Another little thing i used to do concerning the lump and the puss, bathe with pre boiled and cooled water away from the eye (brush away so not re infecting the eye or the area concerned) and do this 3 times a day.
So huge huge wheeeeeeeeeeks of healing for the little one xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Why boil the water? If it is safe to drink in the first place, it is safe to use without boiling, which, by itself will not sterilise the water.
 
alcesterpigs said:
Why boil the water? If it is safe to drink in the first place, it is safe to use without boiling, which, by itself will not sterilise the water.
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rolleyes hmmm you seem to question things alot Alcesterpigs, are you a vet?!?!

My mother in law is a nurse well retired and when treating anything like that we always use cool boiled water, its like babies bottles when needing rinsed it should be done with cool boiled water..

Anyway I really hope this guinea pig pulls through with all the care she's been given I am glad she has caring owners/friends, well done Stinklepig as alot of people wouldn't of gone this far to help her :)
 
boiling will kill any bacteria in the water therefore sterilising...
and i do have a degree in a form of biology and have done degree level microbiology classes.
 
helenllama said:
boiling will kill any bacteria in the water therefore sterilising...
and i do have a degree in a form of biology and have done degree level microbiology classes.
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I totally agree - I've personally done cultures on tap water vs boiled tap water in microbiology classes and the difference is quite shocking. I think that needs to be taken on board as I'm sure the owner would want to minimise ANY risk there may be in introducing more infection, however small.
 
Boiling water takes out some of the calcium (I live in a very hard water area, and kettles are virtually a use for a month and throw away item!), the chlorine, any "human safe level" bugs, etc. I don't see why it hurts to find the extra few minutes to boil up a kettle every now and then during the day.

An update - To put my mind at ease I spoke to the vet further up the country who uses the Zithromax (azithromycin). As much as I want to put my trust in people on this forum, I hope you understand it's always good to hear things direct from source whenever possible :) He's of the impression not only is it a guinea safe antibiotic (which we had already pretty much been happy about) but also that it can prove very effective, far moreso than Baytril for aggressive infections. In fact, he didn't quite go so far as to say his experience was Baytril for severe infections and abscess symptoms was of virtually no use, but he certainly had a low opinion of its value in those cases compared to azithromycin.

I didn't want to update until I'd been round and seen the piggy this afternoon. She clearly has issues with her balance, but when focussing on something (ie yummy freshly bought salad, last batch was Saturday as the local supermarket doesn't restock till Monday so anything left on a Sunday is a bit stinky) she is pretty stable. She can also turn her head to the right to look for food, which is better than she was this time last week.

It seems she's not overly in touch with her back right leg, but her back left has some strength in it, and she was using it to lift when peeing as well as putting some weight on it to try helping her move. The left is clearly very weak, but not only will it be stiff and weakend from lack of use over the last couple of weeks, but also she's put on 150 grammes since she started eating for herself a week after falling ill - That's nearly a fifth more piggy for her muscles to try and get moving!

There's still no more signs of the foul smelling, crystalising puss from her nose, that's been dry since Friday, although her eyes still crust up quite rapidly durning the day after bathing. I've hit the point where I don't know if the lack of nose crust is good as it means the source has reduced, or bad as it means there's a buildup going on somewhere in her head.

So yes, early days on the antibiotic that might be of use still (have to try and get a repeat on that if things continue this way in the next couple of days), and time to also start upping the physio for her back end.

I'm holding off the x ray route at this time as vets within 20 minutes drive are all very much determined to use anaesthetic, and those that *might* be open to trying without are a little far for her to travel when she's not always sure which way round the world is at the moment!

Still more than willing to listen to further advice on these symptoms, I know things are still very in the balance so the more I have to read up, discuss etc, the better :)
 
If you are that concerned about "sterility" of the water why not use sterile water available from a pharmacist. Failing that, sterile saline solution, as used to rinse contact lenses, is probably the best approach. No need to mess around with kettles only to end up with water which is not really, biologically sterile.
 
After monitoring this thread for a while now I do think this thread is drifting and getting rather picky we are very proud of the fact that this forum is a friendly place and i fear that the constant nit picking at comments made by posters will put people off posting.

Please lets all be nice.

Thankyou

Lindsay :)
 
alcesterpigs said:
Why boil the water? If it is safe to drink in the first place, it is safe to use without boiling, which, by itself will not sterilise the water.
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Pre boiling water takes any foreign 'things' that could be floating in it, plus this is always recommended by nursing staff etc.. :) It's just a normal precautionary measure (this is what you do for our human kids too :))
 
Things can change so very quickly, but I spoke to my friend on the phone earlier, and at hte time the piggy was out on a towel, munching some hay, dandelion pellets of some kind, some fresh, and when she thought nobody was looking, the towel (what is the fixation with towels and piggies?)...

Will be heading up there later with another fresh run and another tube of eye ointment, if I'm not worn out when I get back I'll try and post an update :)
 
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