Guinea Pigs Fighting

[amur]

Hello,
My kids have two guinea pig boars. We got them about 6 months ago and were told they were around 7 months old at the time. They have always lived together and have gotten along fine. However in the last three days I am seeing a lot more conflict between them. I don't think either of them have drawn blood but I accidently startled one yesterday while cleaning them and it bit me pretty badly (honestly a bit nervous of him now and unsure of letting my kids handle him either). I have added a third hidy house and they seem to eat their veggies together with no problems. Are they just reestablishing dominance and will work it out? Or do they need to be separated and for how long? I don't really have space for two cages and fear they would be lonely if they were seperated.
Thanks for the advice

 

[Piggies&buns]

Welcome to the forum

I’m sorry to hear this, and sorry to hear he bit you. It was likely a defensive thing with him being startled

So they are just over a year old now.
When you say conflict - what behaviours are you actually seeing? This is important because dominance is not of concern but if the behaviours go beyond dominance and potentially into bullying then that is another matter.

How big is their cage?
Do all hides have two exits?

We recommend that you only clean half the cage at a time. Boars are territorial and if you clean the whole cage in one go then you fully remove scent. Fully removing scent can cause them to need to reestablish their bond. Usually it causes extra dominance but doesn’t amount to anything else. However sometimes it can bring issues to the fore and cause a problem.
So we recommend you only clean half the cage and then clean the other half a day or two later. That way their scent always remains in the cage and can make the whole process much easier for them.

An actual fight does mean a bond has failed and if that occurs then they absolutely must be designated. Separated piggies need to be kept side by side. They don’t get lonely if kept side by side (I have separated boars myself) as they still interact between the bars.

Sometimes a pair will get to the end of the teens and suddenly they fall out, out of the blue and decide they don’t like each other. It’s not something that happens often but it can happen.

Bonds In Trouble
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Reacting to group or territorial changes: Dominance and group establishment/re-establishment

 

[amur]

Welcome to the forum

I’m sorry to hear this, and sorry to hear he bit you. It was likely a defensive thing with him being startled

So they are just over a year old now.
When you say conflict - what behaviours are you actually seeing? This is important because dominance is not of concern but if the behaviours go beyond dominance and potentially into bullying then that is another matter.

How big is their cage?
Do all hides have two exits?

We recommend that you only clean half the cage at a time. Boars are territorial and if you clean the whole cage in one go then you fully remove scent. Fully removing scent can cause them to need to reestablish their bond. Usually it causes extra dominance but doesn’t amount to anything else. However sometimes it can bring issues to the fore and cause a problem.
So we recommend you only clean half the cage and then clean the other half a day or two later. That way their scent always remains in the cage and can make the whole process much easier for them.

An actual fight does mean a bond has failed and if that occurs then they absolutely must be designated. Separated piggies need to be kept side by side. They don’t get lonely if kept side by side (I have separated boars myself) as they still interact between the bars.

Sometimes a pair will get to the end of the teens and suddenly they fall out, out of the blue and decide they don’t like each other. It’s not something that happens often but it can happen.

Bonds In Trouble
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Reacting to group or territorial changes: Dominance and group establishment/re-establishment

Hi thank you for your reply.
Their fighting has been a lot of teeth chattering and one pig consistently chasing the other out of the hiding space under the second floor. When I clean them I try to leave one-piece of bedding as I heard it helps to keep their smell down so they are not remarking their territory each time.

Their cage is a little over 2x4 feet with an additional 1x2 ft second level where their food is. Their hideys have two entrances except for one that I just added two weeks ago only has one entrance. Could this have caused a problem? Should I remove it?

 

[Truffolo]

Boars display quite a range of behaviours, some seeming rather unkind from our human point of view. A furball fight would be a deal breaker for their bond. Also more serious bullying which allows the subordinate pig no peace and may cause him to miss out on eating and drinking due to constant chasing. I'm sorry you got bitten. Are your piggies usually quite easy to catch and handle? If they are very tense with each other, it could be wise to use a tube or a box to catch them. Plastic concertina tubes are very handy if you need to carry them and think they might bite. It is not common for piggies to bite hard though, but if they are very skittish might need more taming. Hand feeding your piggies should help to start a bond with them. Once they have formed a relationship with you, they will usually be quite sporting and nice to you. Polo, my beloved boar, used to kick out as hard as he could when I was catching him and leave long scratches down my hand and wrist. If I tried to stroke him, he and my other boar, Truffle, would start off and charge round the cage in a bout of piggy drama. I had to hold them so that they couldn't nip me at grooming time if my attention wandered With gentle persistence, however, I can stroke them now and they really enjoy it, pancaking and puddling. They have largely stopped nipping and are more tolerant of being caught. Polo is quite good at not scratching too now ❤ Truffle has never scratched. They live in separate cages, and it's much easier to have them as neighboars. Truffle used to charge at Polo and chase him around the cage all night. There was constant really loud teeth chattering, wild eyes and hair standing up on their backs. Now they are both very relaxed in their cages. But it does mean that each piggy only has half the space he had previously (3' x 2'). I hope things work out with your piggies

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m afraid your cage is not big enough for two boys.
A 4x2ft cage is only minimum size for two sows (who are a bit less territorial) but boars need a huge amount more space even as their minimum cage size.
Two boars need a 6x2ft cage on a single level.

Upper levels do not count towards the cage size as piggies are ground roaming. Upper spaces are bonus spaces only.

Upper levels in themselves can also cause problems for boars if one claims the territory as their own - they can then refuse to let the other use it.

Food should be scattered all the way around the cage so no piggy can hog it. Scattering everywhere also encourages foraging and mental stimulation and keeps them occupied.

The hide with a single exit should definitely be removed.
Whether the single exit hide and lack of space are the trigger point and whether it can be resolved, I’m afraid we can’t say - but removing the single exit hide and getting them a bigger cage asap would be advisable. If things escalate into an actual fight then their bond is immediately over so it would be best try those things in the hope that this is just tension that can be resolved.

 

[amur]

Boars display quite a range of behaviours, some seeming rather unkind from our human point of view. A furball fight would be a deal breaker for their bond. Also more serious bullying which allows the subordinate pig no peace and may cause him to miss out on eating and drinking due to constant chasing. I'm sorry you got bitten. Are your piggies usually quite easy to catch and handle? If they are very tense with each other, it could be wise to use a tube or a box to catch them. Plastic concertina tubes are very handy if you need to carry them and think they might bite. It is not common for piggies to bite hard though, but if they are very skittish might need more taming. Hand feeding your piggies should help to start a bond with them. Once they have formed a relationship with you, they will usually be quite sporting and nice to you. Polo, my beloved boar, used to kick out as hard as he could when I was catching him and leave long scratches down my hand and wrist. If I tried to stroke him, he and my other boar, Truffle, would start off and charge round the cage in a bout of piggy drama. I had to hold them so that they couldn't nip me at grooming time if my attention wandered With gentle persistence, however, I can stroke them now and they really enjoy it, pancaking and puddling. They have largely stopped nipping and are more tolerant of being caught. Polo is quite good at not scratching too now ❤ Truffle has never scratched. They live in separate cages, and it's much easier to have them as neighboars. Truffle used to charge at Polo and chase him around the cage all night. There was constant really loud teeth chattering, wild eyes and hair standing up on their backs. Now they are both very relaxed in their cages. But it does mean that each piggy only has half the space he had previously (3' x 2'). I hope things work out with your piggies

Thank you so much for your reply. I have had two guinea pigs before we had kids and I definitely don't remember them being as hard to catch and as skiddish as these two are, hand feeding is a great suggestion and I will be sure to do more of this. The suggestion of a tube to catch them is a great one, may use it at least until I work out the nerves from being bit.
Great information too on how big a cage each of your boars has while sperated as I was definitely wondering that.
Unfortunately tonight they had a scuffle again and I noticed a patch of hair and a small bite mark with blood on one of their hind ends so I ended up separating them for their safety. Do you think they will ever be able to live together again? Or will they ever be able to bond with a different pig?
Thanks again for your time and experience.

 

[amur]

I’m afraid your cage is not big enough for two boys.
A 4x2ft cage is only minimum size for two sows (who are a bit less territorial) but boars need a huge amount more space even as their minimum cage size.
Two boars need a 6x2ft cage on a single level.

Upper levels do not count towards the cage size as piggies are ground roaming. Upper spaces are bonus spaces only.

Upper levels in themselves can also cause problems for boars if one claims the territory as their own - they can then refuse to let the other use it.

Food should be scattered all the way around the cage so no piggy can hog it. Scattering everywhere also encourages foraging and mental stimulation and keeps them occupied.

The hide with a single exit should definitely be removed.
Whether the single exit hide and lack of space are the trigger point and whether it can be resolved, I’m afraid we can’t say - but removing the single exit hide and getting them a bigger cage asap would be advisable. If things escalate into an actual fight then their bond is immediately over so it would be best try those things in the hope that this is just tension that can be resolved.

Thank you so much for your reply. I love the idea of scattering some food to keep things interesting/ like a game.
I had no idea hides with only one entrance were such a problem, I have had two boars in the past and they had many hides with only one entrance and it never posed a problem so I'm disappointed to learn this may have caused a rift between these two and kicking myself for putting it in their cage.
Unfortunately tonight after I removed the hidey with one entrance they got into a scuffle and I noticed a patch of fur and a bite mark on one of their hind ends. I have separated them for their safety. Do you think they can ever be reintroduced? Or will they just pick up their old ways? Will they ever be able to live with another different pig? Makes me sad to think they will live alone especially since they are so young.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear that,

What you can do is keep them separate for a few days and give them time to calm down. Then in a few days time you can carry out a neutral territory rebonding to allow them to make their minds up about each other.
You put them both in a neutral territory bonding pen (this cannot be a cage they normally see as their own territory as doing that will cause a fight).
They will either go back together with dominance and after several hours will still be ok together - in which case you clean out their main cage and then move them back to it - although you do need to make sure you have got a 6x2ft cage for them to go back to given a 4x2ft is far too small for two boars.

or upon neutral territory, they will go back to having problems, potentially a fight may break out - this means their bond has definitely failed and they must remain permanently separated with no possibility of trying again.
If they are fighting due to being incompatible then it’s lifelong, If they don’t like each other then they will never change their minds about that and can never go back together

While separated each piggy needs their own cage measuring a minimum of 4x2ft (so you cannot split your current 4x2ft cage in half).
4x2ft is the absolute minimum welfare size for a single piggy (3x2ft mentioned above is unfortunately too small) but we would recommend that each piggy has bigger ie a 5x2ft each while single.

They will be fine separated and side by side - i have currently got two boys who live side by side and have done for three years (they had to be separated when they were just 18 weeks old).

They can have a new friend each though. They may be incompatible with each other but it doesn’t mean they will be incompatible with another piggy. One of my separated boys did briefly have another friend - one of my other boars who was in a pair passed away leaving his cage mate alone, so I bonded one of my single boys with my elderly bereaved boy and they lived very happily until the elderly piggy also passed away.

You have to go about finding them a new friend and bonding the right way though. The best way is to go to a rescue centre and have their help in finding a compatible friend, that way you won’t risk another failed bonding.

If you do decide to get each of them a new friend, then do ensure their cages are 6x2ft per cage.

 

[Piggies&buns]

To add, if their behaviour when together was getting bad (beyond dominance) and the injury is not just an accidental swipe, then you are able to call their bond failed and keep them permanently separated now without the need to attempt a neutral territory reintroduction.
The neutral territory reintroduction can be a useful way to determine a bond where there is a question over whether they are just bickering rather than actually failing

 

[Truffolo]

Yes, 3x2' doesn't allow for proper zooming and popcorning. I am looking at ways of increasing my piggies' floor space. When they shared a cage, they could run more easily, but running usually involved Truffle chasing Polo round the cage, tormenting the poor fellow. Grooming them at lap time made a big difference to getting my boars to enjoy being stroked. But I can understand your wariness after being bitten hard, their teeth are long and sharp. I'm hoping that it was just a one-off thing and he will let you handle him to groom him and for lap time. You may meet some resistance initially, lots of wriggling, but they get used to being handled and enjoy being petted ❤ I recommend watching Saskia on the LA Guinea Pig Rescue channel on You Tube as she demonstrates handling and grooming piggies. Approaching a rescue is a good idea. Your boys are young enough to be neutered and a bond between a neutered male and a sow is the most likely to be stable. But it would be nice if you could keep them. There are lots of neighboaring pairs on the forum and they seem very happy. I think my daft piggies are doing OK in their batchelor pads. Good luck, I hope things work out.