Guinea Pigs in Bedrooms?

[Jemima]

It's me again! Back with another question.

We have now ruled out my office space for our potential new Guinea Pigs. There simply isn't the room.

My only other options are:

1. To house them in my daughters bedroom.
2. To house them outside and take them into the garage in winter.
3. To not get them at all.

OK - option 1 - Daughter's bedroom.
Please could I hear from those who have kept Guinea Pigs in children's rooms before? My daughter is six, and I have already read posts on here which advise not putting a pet in a room until children are 12. But let me just make it clear that I would never put any of my pets in danger, and this would not even be an option if I thought my daughter would get them out, etc. I have told her that she would not be allowed to handle them or feed them without me being in there.

Is there anyone here who has found it workable and OK with GPs in their child's bedroom? Or is this just a ridiculous notion?! It is me who is home all week working, the children are obviously home in between school.

Also, my husband is not keen on this idea. (Well, he's not keen on the idea of getting them at all).

Option 2 - Home them outside.
This is not my favourite option, as I want us all to interact with the Guinea Pigs! I also would prefer it from purely a lazy point of view, so I don't have to go outside numerous times a day to clean them, which I would do of course. I would also have to buy them a hutch cover and insulator for the winter, and we would move them into the garage by the window from October onwards. But as I understand, we would not then be able to bring them inside ever during that time, due to their sensitive bodies needing to regulate temperature. So they really would be outside pets at that point. I also am concerned about the heat in the summer, as at the moment, I cannot think of a shady spot we could keep them that is close to the house.

is there anyone here who houses their piggies outside successfully, with lots of interaction? And who has them in a hutch/run set up? Bringing them in to a shed or outbuilding over winter?

Option 3 - To not get them.
And my last option, which is to admit defeat and decide not to rescue any piggies, and accept that perhaps we have exhausted all options and cannot find a workable one! My children will be so upset! I don't want hamsters or gerbils. We have two cats. And I love the idea of piggies and feel they would be a lovely pet for us to get to know, and for my children to learn responsibility, to learn about taking care of animals, and ultimately, when the time comes, to learn about death. And... we've already named them, even though we don't have them yet! Having said that, if this is the best option then I will need to accept it!

I know only I can decide what is best for my family, but I feel some feedback of experience with my first two options would be super helpful!

Thank you so much.

 

[Siikibam]

I can’t really advise you on number 1. My piggies were inside until August. When I first got them, the intention was to keep them outside. That kind of..fell by the wayside for 3 years As hard as it was for me to do, I moved them out. They’re absolutely loving life in their hutch. I go see them at least 3 times a day. I spend more time with them when I’m cleaning them out. And I have a quick cuddle when I weigh them. And my children have stopped sniffling and scratching as well.

It is better to have them inside, but I would say a garage is a good compromise. You could set up an area in there with a chair etc so you can go sit in there with them while they’re having floor time. I’ll tag @Betsy who keeps her lovely ladies in a garage.

Good luck making the decision.

 

[Jemima]

I can’t really advise you on number 1. My piggies were inside until August. When I first got them, the intention was to keep them outside. That kind of..fell by the wayside for 3 years As hard as it was for me to do, I moved them out. They’re absolutely loving life in their hutch. I go see them at least 3 times a day. I spend more time with them when I’m cleaning them out. And I have a quick cuddle when I weigh them. And my children have stopped sniffling and scratching as well.

It is better to have them inside, but I would say a garage is a good compromise. You could set up an area in there with a chair etc so you can go sit in there with them while they’re having floor time. I’ll tag @Betsy who keeps her lovely ladies in a garage.

Good luck making the decision.

Thank you for your reply!

Do you have yours outside in a hutch or a shed? It might be plausible to make enough room In the garage to have a cosy corner type thing! This is a good idea. But would mean my husband making a lot of room in there. My other concern is that how would I keep them warm enough in the winter - are snugglepads, warm beds, insulated hutch covers enough I wonder...

Also, the summer time - is it OK to keep them in a garage I am assuming it might get very hot... More to think about!

I will wait to hear from others, too - about the bedroom option. :-)

Thank you! X

 

[Siikibam]

Yes. When the hutch was built, they used some kind of insulating thing on it. I then added more insulation on the inside and outside. It’s then covered with blankets, waterproof and tarpaulin. There are four heat pads per pair and the hutch is stuffed with hay. I also cover their hides with fleece and a bath mat, but I don’t know how often they’re actually in there

If you go with boars then you’ll need a 6ft hutch. Additional space for running around would be ideal. What does your husband keep in the garage?

 

[Jemima]

Yes. When the hutch was built, they used some kind of insulating thing on it. I then added more insulation on the inside and outside. It’s then covered with blankets, waterproof and tarpaulin. There are four heat pads per pair and the hutch is stuffed with hay. I also cover their hides with fleece and a bath mat, but I don’t know how often they’re actually in there

If you go with boars then you’ll need a 6ft hutch. Additional space for running around would be ideal. What does your husband keep in the garage?

That sounds lovely and protected for your pigs.

My husband has tools in the garage, bikes, a fridge, camping stuff, spare wood (he's a carpenter) and other bits and pieces - it is a bit of a junk space at the moment! He also makes his own wines and stuff, so he keeps that stuff in there, too.

I imagine we could potentially reshuffle it to make some space. The windows are by the door... I would just need to work out if we would then put them outside in the hutch in the summer, or keep them always in the garage and only outside when in the run.

I've measured up the space in my daughters room and realistically, we'd probably only space for a 4x2 C&C, 151cm x 78cm.

 

[Betsy]

Thanks @Siikibam. I do indeed my my old gals in the garage. I have had my piggies in the garage for around 16 months since I moved here. First of all it was Christian and Meg in the Penthouse Suite and Dennis and Betsy in the Granny Annex. Since we lost Christian and Dennis at the end of November I now have Betsy, Meg and Patsy (who I adopted in September) in the Penthouse Suite.

I had to house them in the garage when I moved (they had previously been outside at my old house) as there are foxes down here. I love them being in the garage as I interact with them much more and they are out of the wind and the rain and of the real biting cold of winter. The garage is unheated so I still have to do a bit of work to keep them warm in the winter but it's not too bad. The hutch still has the insulating and thermal cover on it that it had when it was outside, I still stuff the hutch with hay and snugglies and snugglesafes.

I have a separate run for them. My garage has a Personnel door off the Conservatory so I never have to get wet when its raining when I go and see them. My OH won't let them live in the house so its a good compromise to have my piggies in the garage.

Here is my hutch (Obviously when it was for 4 piggies the top is only used for my 3 gals now and the bottom for storage)

#

Here is the run being beautifully modelled by Meg and Christian (RIP)

 

[Jemima]

Thanks @Siikibam. I do indeed my my old gals in the garage. I have had my piggies in the garage for around 16 months since I moved here. First of all it was Christian and Meg in the Penthouse Suite and Dennis and Betsy in the Granny Annex. Since we lost Christian and Dennis at the end of November I now have Betsy, Meg and Patsy (who I adopted in September) in the Penthouse Suite.

I had to house them in the garage when I moved (they had previously been outside at my old house) as there are foxes down here. I love them being in the garage as I interact with them much more and they are out of the wind and the rain and of the real biting cold of winter. The garage is unheated so I still have to do a bit of work to keep them warm in the winter but it's not too bad. The hutch still has the insulating and thermal cover on it that it had when it was outside, I still stuff the hutch with hay and snugglies and snugglesafes.

I have a separate run for them. My garage has a Personnel door off the Conservatory so I never have to get wet when its raining when I go and see them. My OH won't let them live in the house so its a good compromise to have my piggies in the garage.

Here is my hutch (Obviously when it was for 4 piggies the top is only used for my 3 gals now and the bottom for storage)

View attachment 168448#

Here is the run being beautifully modelled by Meg and Christian (RIP)

View attachment 168449

Amazing! That step looks fab! How often do you put them in their playpen? And do you keep their hutch in the garage throughout the summer? Where is your run from? AND, do you also ever put them outside on the grass with a secure run? Thank you!

 

[Jemima]

I think we may have found a solution! Finally!

We have a filing cabinet and matching huge storage cabinet, same height and width, which we could put the C&C cage onto! My husband came up with this idea, and we can secure the cage onto the wall, so it can hook on and off, if we need to bring it down. This is in my office, so they would be taking up new extra floor space! And then I would get an outside run, and an extra indoor playpen, so we could have them out in the main living/dining kitchen area, too.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I think we may have found a solution! Finally!

We have a filing cabinet and matching huge storage cabinet, same height and width, which we could put the C&C cage onto! My husband came up with this idea, and we can secure the cage onto the wall, so it can hook on and off, if we need to bring it down. This is in my office, so they would be taking up new extra floor space! And then I would get an outside run, and an extra indoor playpen, so we could have them out in the main living/dining kitchen area, too.

Thats great!
Its entirely possible to keep them in a hutch in a shed/garage but it takes a lot of work to manage the temperatures both in summer and winter. If you can keep them in the house and then let them have lawn time when appropriate, then it’s easier.

 

[Jemima]

Thats great!
Its entirely possible to keep them in a hutch in a shed/garage but it takes a lot of work to manage the temperatures both in summer and winter. If you can keep them in the house and then let them have lawn time when appropriate, then it’s easier.

Yes - I feel really happy with this solution, and pleased my husband came up with it!
I'd have to get some little stalls for the children so they can actually get up and feed them, and help clean, but we could always bring it down for this purpose.
We would have the space to fit a 4x2 C&C, would that be big enough for three?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes - I feel really happy with this solution, and pleased my husband came up with it!
I'd have to get some little stalls for the children so they can actually get up and feed them, and help clean, but we could always bring it down for this purpose.
We would have the space to fit a 4x2 C&C, would that be big enough for three?

That’s so lovely!
No it wouldnt, a 4x2 is only big enough for two sows. It’s not big enough for two boars. For three piggies (three sows or a neutered boar and two sows) or two boars you need a 5x2.

 

[Jemima]

That’s so lovely!
No it wouldnt, a 4x2 is only big enough for two sows. It’s not big enough for two boars. For three piggies (three sows or a neutered boar and two sows) or two boars you need a 5x2.

OK, lovely - thanks for that info. We could potentially fit in the 5x2, but there would be a bit of an overhang... So may just have to stick with two sows instead.

 

[artcasper]

Hi - Ours live in the front room - and all I would say about them being in a bedroom is the smell - not so much the piggies themselves but the hay - it can be quite a strong smell! Also they can be quite noisy with their water bottles in the night -i know when i have had to sleep on the sofa a few times the noise drives me crazy lol!

I know what you mean about interacting with them inside tho, this is why ours were outdoors for about a month then moved inside!

Good luck with your decision..

 

[rp1993]

OK, lovely - thanks for that info. We could potentially fit in the 5x2, but there would be a bit of an overhang... So may just have to stick with two sows instead.

You could always buy a piece of MDF for the over hand and place it on the top of the cabinets!

 

[gingerlily_14]

i would personally recommend option 1 if you keep them in a cage large enough and if you think your daughter is responsible enough also it could teach her a lot. option 2 is dangerous partly because of the cold and partly because even if you have an enclosed garden there is still a lot of predators at night and guinea pigs are prey obviously and even if the predator cant manage to get in, the sight of it can give your guinea pig a heart attack so definitely not outside and trust me you and your guinea pig will not have as close of an relationship. and option 3 is just sad how could you not live with guinea pigs i have had guinea pigs since i was 11 and have never gone back if anyone ever said I'm lonely i want a social pet guinea pig wold be my first answer. good luck on convincing your husband x

 

[Jemima]

i would personally recommend option 1 if you keep them in a cage large enough and if you think your daughter is responsible enough also it could teach her a lot. option 2 is dangerous partly because of the cold and partly because even if you have an enclosed garden there is still a lot of predators at night and guinea pigs are prey obviously and even if the predator cant manage to get in, the sight of it can give your guinea pig a heart attack so definitely not outside and trust me you and your guinea pig will not have as close of an relationship. and option 3 is just sad how could you not live with guinea pigs i have had guinea pigs since i was 11 and have never gone back if anyone ever said I'm lonely i want a social pet guinea pig wold be my first answer. good luck on convincing your husband x

Ah thank you - that is so encouraging to hear, and it's really lovely to know that you had Guniea Pigs since you were 11 and still love them! My daughter and son are so beautifully caring about animals. We did our local toad patrol rescue last night and my daughter referred to the female we found as "so beautiful". She also said the same about a spider!

So let's rule out option three! Since this post, my husband had suggested putting the cage up onto two matching cabinets we have in the office, securing them with a hook so they are completely safe, and so that we can bring them down easily to clean. So we may start off with this option as a compromise, as he isn't keen on having them in my daughters room.

The only thing with this option is that my children won't be able to as easily feed or interact with them, as the cabinet is taller than they are! They will have to stand on a foot stall. But I am going with it for now, as at least my husband is on board! BUT, it means we also can only have two (rather than three like I had wanted), because I think we can only fit in a 151x78 size C&C.

 

[Siikibam]

i would personally recommend option 1 if you keep them in a cage large enough and if you think your daughter is responsible enough also it could teach her a lot. option 2 is dangerous partly because of the cold and partly because even if you have an enclosed garden there is still a lot of predators at night and guinea pigs are prey obviously and even if the predator cant manage to get in, the sight of it can give your guinea pig a heart attack so definitely not outside and trust me you and your guinea pig will not have as close of an relationship. and option 3 is just sad how could you not live with guinea pigs i have had guinea pigs since i was 11 and have never gone back if anyone ever said I'm lonely i want a social pet guinea pig wold be my first answer. good luck on convincing your husband x

Option 2 isn’t ‘dangerous’ if you have a decent setup. There are a lot of people on here who house their guinea pigs outside. Some in just hutches and others in hutches inside sheds. I’m one of the former. Granted they’ve only been out since the end of last summer but they’ve been fine. In fact they’re actually living their best life.

Second thing is that guinea pigs aren’t necessarily social. They’re social with their own kind but their relationship with a human has its limits and boundaries.

 

[Betsy]

Option 2 isn’t ‘dangerous’ if you have a decent setup. There are a lot of people on here who house their guinea pigs outside. Some in just hutches and others in hutches inside sheds. I’m one of the former. Granted they’ve only been out since the end of last summer but they’ve been fine. In fact they’re actually living their best life.

My piggies used to live outside until I moved house and had room in the garage for them. They lived in a hutch outside and they now live in a hutch in the garage. My piggies have the best life I can give them.

 

[Henry_Yandell]

I have mine in my bedroom and it's a good job I'm a night owl because they are extremely noisy, not only that but as @artcasper said the smell can get “interesting” The rest of my family say I’m nose blind because I can’t smell it as much as them if at all

 

[artcasper]

I have mine in my bedroom and it's a good job I'm a night owl because they are extremely noisy, not only that but as @artcasper said the smell can get “interesting” The rest of my family say I’m nose blind because I can’t smell it as much as them if at all

Nose blind is defo a thing...
When I have been out the room for a few hours... I can defo smell them more

 

[Swissgreys]

I think your potential solution sound fabulous and really will make sure you all get the most out of your guinea pigs.

Keeping them outside or in the garage can work for an adult, but the chance of a child spending more than a few minutes in a cold shed or outside on a regular basis in bad weather is minimal. We have our rabbits outside, and initially my very committed and responsible kids did a lot fo the work with them, but 5 years on and they are my job in the Winter - no question. The kids still do a lot with them in Summer, and will sit outside with them for ages, but in Winter it is plain hard work and you can't expect a child to enjoy that.

I would also strongly advise against having a cage in a child's bedroom. No matter how careful and responsible your own child is, there will usually be others kids who are around occasionally and this can cause problems.
One of my daughters friends (they were 11 at the time) had owned hamsters for years and was a very responsible owner.
She had friends over to play (my daughter was one of them) and one of the other kids kept asking to see the hamster (which was in a cage in her bedroom). The girl refused to get her hamster out as he was sleeping and said she wasn't allowed to bring him out when he had friends over. They all went outside to play but this kid went back upstairs, got the hamster out, it bit her, she dropped it and the hamster died. It was such an awful situation and very upsetting for everyone.

I can also say that our guinea pigs have always been indoors in our living room, and the rules around who can handle them, etc are VERY strict and very clear. It is explained to every child who enters our home and both of my own girls follow them meticulously.
However despite all of this I had an adult friend over a few years ago and her daughter was fascinated by our guinea pigs.
I explained the rules (no touching, no feeding, no picking up with me being present to oversee the situation) and she said she understood. My own girls weren't home at the time (this was a friend of mine not theirs) and while I was making coffee she went into our living room and picked up one of the guinea pigs. To this day I still feel sick about what could have potentially happened if she had dropped or injured one of our pets. The mother was very casual about it - 'oh don't, worry, she's always had a thing for animals' - but it could have ended very, very badly.
Needless to say that child has never been back in our home.

I guess what i am saying is that give the age of your kids and your other household pets I think your solution with a high cage is actually a very good one.
I am sure it will allow all of you to enjoy your piggies while keeping them safe.

 

[Jemima]

I think your potential solution sound fabulous and really will make sure you all get the most out of your guinea pigs.

Keeping them outside or in the garage can work for an adult, but the chance of a child spending more than a few minutes in a cold shed or outside on a regular basis in bad weather is minimal. We have our rabbits outside, and initially my very committed and responsible kids did a lot fo the work with them, but 5 years on and they are my job in the Winter - no question. The kids still do a lot with them in Summer, and will sit outside with them for ages, but in Winter it is plain hard work and you can't expect a child to enjoy that.

I would also strongly advise against having a cage in a child's bedroom. No matter how careful and responsible your own child is, there will usually be others kids who are around occasionally and this can cause problems.
One of my daughters friends (they were 11 at the time) had owned hamsters for years and was a very responsible owner.
She had friends over to play (my daughter was one of them) and one of the other kids kept asking to see the hamster (which was in a cage in her bedroom). The girl refused to get her hamster out as he was sleeping and said she wasn't allowed to bring him out when he had friends over. They all went outside to play but this kid went back upstairs, got the hamster out, it bit her, she dropped it and the hamster died. It was such an awful situation and very upsetting for everyone.

I can also say that our guinea pigs have always been indoors in our living room, and the rules around who can handle them, etc are VERY strict and very clear. It is explained to every child who enters our home and both of my own girls follow them meticulously.
However despite all of this I had an adult friend over a few years ago and her daughter was fascinated by our guinea pigs.
I explained the rules (no touching, no feeding, no picking up with me being present to oversee the situation) and she said she understood. My own girls weren't home at the time (this was a friend of mine not theirs) and while I was making coffee she went into our living room and picked up one of the guinea pigs. To this day I still feel sick about what could have potentially happened if she had dropped or injured one of our pets. The mother was very casual about it - 'oh don't, worry, she's always had a thing for animals' - but it could have ended very, very badly.
Needless to say that child has never been back in our home.

I guess what i am saying is that give the age of your kids and your other household pets I think your solution with a high cage is actually a very good one.
I am sure it will allow all of you to enjoy your piggies while keeping them safe.

Thank you for your reply. It is interesting to hear your experiences - I didn't consider non lockdown times when the children eventually have friends over. That is such a good point.

We will stick with the cabinet spot for them.

Now I just need to order everything! I also need to get my head around bedding and whether to use fleece etc. And then wait for them to become available! Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

 

[Siikibam]

I’d consider waiting to get the cage until you’ve been in contact with rescues. Some have size requirements and you don’t want to buy twice.

Excited for you!

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Yipee getting piggies. . You doing a lot of ground work and that's Brill.
I have 4 piggies 2x2 girls. . All live inside. .
I do have room outside . . But I thought long and hard. . Did the pros and cons and inside was better for me. . I knew outside was 2 things really against . animals Cats Foxes and living near water rats etc. and I'd spend less time with them . .
But I don't have a garage . .
I'm pls you getting piggies as piggies need loving slaves. . . All the best.

 

[Jemima]

I’d consider waiting to get the cage until you’ve been in contact with rescues. Some have size requirements and you don’t want to buy twice.

Excited for you!

Yes - you are right - and I am already there! I am actually ordering directly from the rescue, as all the proceeds for the c&c go straight to them!

 

[Hummingbird]

My 3 are indoors from Oct then in an outside hutch when it gets warmer around April. (I live in Scotland).The outdoor hutch has a raincover which goes down at night. I do miss them at first when they leave the garden room as it is true there is quite a lot of interaction especially at fridge opening and they squeak when they hear my daughter's voice in the morning as they know food is coming.However, it is nice to get back the floor space in the garden room once they go outside and I find cleaning the outside hutch a lot easier which has shavings as opposed to their indoor dwelling which is fleece and needs brushing. The hay trail can sometimes find its way upstairs! Also, the washing and drying of the fleece. I acknowledge most owners love it. My guinea pigs also go on the grass in a big outdoor run weather permitting which they love. In fact when I open the hutch door they will jump on my knee in the knowledge that they are going to grass. They have 3 different dwellings. I haven't found any problem s at all over the years about moving GPs from indoor to outdoor and temperature fluctuations as some owners mention. I am sure if you wanted to keep them indoors in cold weather and then move them to the garage or outside in summer it would be fine. As long as they are protected from your cats which I'm sure you are already aware. Good to get other people's thoughts and experiences then make your choices. Will you manage to take down the cage if it is high up every cleaning time though? Hope you and the wee ones enjoy your new pets.

 

[Piggies&buns]

They have 3 different dwellings. I haven't found any problem s at all over the years about moving GPs from indoor to outdoor and temperature fluctuations as some owners mention. I am sure if you wanted to keep them indoors in cold weather and then move them to the garage or outside in summer it would be fine.

The temperature fluctuations aren’t a problem with the way your piggies are living - its fine to move them indoors in winter and then back out for summer.
The problems comes when permanent outdoor dwelling piggies get brought indoors in winter for playtime and then put back out in the hutch - that’s when the exposure to large temperature fluctuations is present.

 

[Jemima]

My 3 are indoors from Oct then in an outside hutch when it gets warmer around April. (I live in Scotland).The outdoor hutch has a raincover which goes down at night. I do miss them at first when they leave the garden room as it is true there is quite a lot of interaction especially at fridge opening and they squeak when they hear my daughter's voice in the morning as they know food is coming.However, it is nice to get back the floor space in the garden room once they go outside and I find cleaning the outside hutch a lot easier which has shavings as opposed to their indoor dwelling which is fleece and needs brushing. The hay trail can sometimes find its way upstairs! Also, the washing and drying of the fleece. I acknowledge most owners love it. My guinea pigs also go on the grass in a big outdoor run weather permitting which they love. In fact when I open the hutch door they will jump on my knee in the knowledge that they are going to grass. They have 3 different dwellings. I haven't found any problem s at all over the years about moving GPs from indoor to outdoor and temperature fluctuations as some owners mention. I am sure if you wanted to keep them indoors in cold weather and then move them to the garage or outside in summer it would be fine. As long as they are protected from your cats which I'm sure you are already aware. Good to get other people's thoughts and experiences then make your choices. Will you manage to take down the cage if it is high up every cleaning time though? Hope you and the wee ones enjoy your new pets.

Hello Hummingbird. Thank you for your reply. I have been enjoying reading everyone's helpful thoughts and experiences.

The issue with the garage is that it is full of lots of stuff. We both went out to inspect and see if we could put a hutch in, and we could definitely do that. But that is all- and although it would be a big hutch, I'd want to give them floor time, too.

My plan currently is that they can be inside all year round on top of the cabinets. It is not the perfect solution, but it's the best one at present!My husband is going to attach this to the wall with a hook (GP safe, of course), so that I can lift it down and pop it on the office floor for it's deep clean once a week.

In between the clean, I will spot clean every day, morning and night.I can do that no problem as the bottom of the cage will be chest height, I may need to just stand on a foot stall.

It certainly isn't ideal, but I think it is a good compromise, and it doesn't take away floor space. The main negative I see is that I really wanted a 5x3, but I think realistically we can only fit a 4x2, maybe a little bigger if they can custom build for us. I was hoping to get three, but we'll have to settle with two to start with.

 

[Siikibam]

A 4x2 would still be quite sizeable to lift up and down. Could you do it so you can ‘open’ two grids for full clean day? Of course they’d have to be secured when ‘not in use’ by cable ties and connectors.

 

[Jemima]

You could always buy a piece of MDF for the over hand and place it on the top of the cabinets!

That's a good idea, however it is enough to get my husband to agree to the 160cm cage! I did try to squeeze in that extra room, but he rightly pointed out I would basically be banging my head on it as I work at my desk SO for now, we will settle for two. Although rescue lady said two boars would be OK in that size, too? It is 160cm x 78cm with a 2x2 loft space. And it is ordered and being delivered by the rescue place on Sunday. Now I just have to wait patiently for the piggies. I saw some babies on Gumtree, but I would be so nervous to get them on there I think. I don't like to support the Gumtree pet trade. It makes me feel sad. Then also, part of me thinks it is 'rescuing', too! The rescue near me doesn't often get in youngsters, but I am on the waiting list now.