Has anybody else seen this?

Piggiewheekwheek

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I have been researching lately about herds and bonding etc...I have boars and what I mainly seem to be met with is this....
You can't keep more than 2 boars together
Trios of boars never work out
If you have more than 2 they will fight
No rescue will let me rehome any more boars because they say they can't be together

Now I understand this may be the case for some but I really don't think it's the rule...here's why...

Go take a look on YouTube for a channel called MY CRAZY GUINEA PIG FAMILY
and that's not just it there are quite a few channels on there with people who keep multiple boars together in a herd and they all get along fine🙂
I say if you introduce them properly and they all get along then why not?I mean shows can fall out and fight just as much as boars right?
Just me putting my thoughts down in writing lol🤣
What do you guys think?
 
Statistically trios (or larger groups) of boars are the most unstable and most likely to fail.
Of course this doesn't happen 100% of the time, but the reality is that most people simply can't offer adequate space and resources for a successful larger herd of males.
This needs a lot more physical space than most of us have available to house our guinea pigs in, and certainly won't work in a typical store bought cage, which is what many people use.

The You Tube channel you mention shows lots of clips of groups of guinea pigs in a huge outdoor setting, but doesn't offer a lot of information on how they actually live day to day. Of course I didn't watch every video, but they don't actually state that they keep all of their 13 boars together in one herd.

I also think that experienced owners can make large groups look like they are easy to manage, and of course they also usually have back up plans on how to split their piggies if things go wrong.
Plus if you have a large herd, you have a lot more choice and flexibility when it comes to mixing and matching to find compatible temperaments.
For most of us with a smaller number of piggies, a falling out can end up with a lone piggy in a small cage which is less than ideal in most cases, becasue the infrastructure to accommodate multiple cages wasn't there in the first place.

So of course large boar groups can work sometimes, but in general I would think that most owners don't have the time, space, resources or expereince to deal with things when they go wrong, and would be better sticking to a more reliable pairing/grouping. I imagine this is also why many rescues reccomend that people go with a bonded pair of males, and not trios or larger groups and also don't add a new boar to an existing group. Better to have a bonded pair who happily live together than risk adding more boars and ending up with multiple single boars.
 
Statistically trios (or larger groups) of boars are the most unstable and most likely to fail.
Of course this doesn't happen 100% of the time, but the reality is that most people simply can't offer adequate space and resources for a successful larger herd of males.
This needs a lot more physical space than most of us have available to house our guinea pigs in, and certainly won't work in a typical store bought cage, which is what many people use.

The You Tube channel you mention shows lots of clips of groups of guinea pigs in a huge outdoor setting, but doesn't offer a lot of information on how they actually live day to day. Of course I didn't watch every video, but they don't actually state that they keep all of their 13 boars together in one herd.

I also think that experienced owners can make large groups look like they are easy to manage, and of course they also usually have back up plans on how to split their piggies if things go wrong.
Plus if you have a large herd, you have a lot more choice and flexibility when it comes to mixing and matching to find compatible temperaments.
For most of us with a smaller number of piggies, a falling out can end up with a lone piggy in a small cage which is less than ideal in most cases, becasue the infrastructure to accommodate multiple cages wasn't there in the first place.

So of course large boar groups can work sometimes, but in general I would think that most owners don't have the time, space, resources or expereince to deal with things when they go wrong, and would be better sticking to a more reliable pairing/grouping. I imagine this is also why many rescues reccomend that people go with a bonded pair of males, and not trios or larger groups and also don't add a new boar to an existing group. Better to have a bonded pair who happily live together than risk adding more boars and ending up with multiple single boars.
They keep all there 13 boars together all the time, I have had many a conversation with them about how they keep them together so happily,they said they just all get along!
They started with a pair and then over the years have rescued or rehomed boars of all ages,added them to the herd with only the occasional falling out but then after that they lived together happily.
They also said that their local rescue informs them when they get boys in and that they are quite happy to let them rehome and add to their herd if they wish to.
 
I have been researching lately about herds and bonding etc...I have boars and what I mainly seem to be met with is this....
You can't keep more than 2 boars together
Trios of boars never work out
If you have more than 2 they will fight
No rescue will let me rehome any more boars because they say they can't be together

Now I understand this may be the case for some but I really don't think it's the rule...here's why...

Go take a look on YouTube for a channel called MY CRAZY GUINEA PIG FAMILY
and that's not just it there are quite a few channels on there with people who keep multiple boars together in a herd and they all get along fine🙂
I say if you introduce them properly and they all get along then why not?I mean shows can fall out and fight just as much as boars right?
Just me putting my thoughts down in writing lol🤣
What do you guys think?

Hi!

Boars work in larger bachelor groups (minimum 5-6 but preferably more), provided that they have plenty of space (and I mean half to a full large room) to be able to get away from each other and have their own patch to hang out and to get away from a challenger if needed. Oodles of space is a requisite so boars can divorce themselves and choose to have their own separate territory if they don't suit.
Most bloody boar fights happen because the loser cannot just move away as they are wired to do; in addition to the fact that pet shop and breeder babies are generally chosen for their looks and not for being friends and hanging out together... It is sadly a myth that litter brothers won't fight - we have certainly plenty of evidence of that on here!

However, you have to be aware that personality clashes and bullying can still happen as group relations are a dynamic and not a static process. Illness and normal ageing will impact on the hierarchy, so you'll also need a couple of spare pens/hospital cages. You need to build up a group around one dominant leader boar as hierarchy challenges and changes to the existing hierarchy can easily upturn the apple cart. A range of ages is also desirable. The more boys are going through the teenage months together at any time, the greater the potential of clashes due to strong testosterone spikes.

Please be aware that small groups, especially same age baby trios and quartets are the most instable of combinations in any but the oldies (whose testosterone output has fizzled out) or in disabled/carer set-ups with different dynamics. While there are examples to the contrary, the vast majority of these combinations in a traditional cage or hutch set-up fails sooner rather than later because small groups very much depend on the character balance and the dynamics between them. In larger groups a herd mentality takes over although you will find that subgroups of like-minded boars will form by their own choice.
This is also the reason why rescues refuse to rehome to places that want to keep boars in group - a large bulk of their boar intakes are from fallen-out/failed couples, trios or quartets - and the last thing they want to do is risk them ending up in the same situation again. If rescues come across a stable working trio, the good ones will usually keep it together; but these trios are far and few in between! ;)

The same goes for more than one neutered boar with a group of sows - it can work in a herd setting with enough space to get away and form sub-groups but it generally doesn't work in a normal cage setting.

Exceptions to every rule happen - but they are a small minority and never something that you can bank on working for you without fail. If you want a certain set-up, finding the right personalities and having plenty of accommodation for those inevitable piggies that don't work out is key. People have generally not set out to create a large group, but they have ended up with one where personalities and circumstances have lent themselves to a certain combination.

I have at some point of time run a large group of up to 13 sows with one dominant neutered boar for nearly 5 years (gradually and carefully built up especially in the early stages) and through two generations (including two patriarchs and First Ladies) before I had to split it in two due to dynamics taking a turn for the worse. My experience is echoed by that of other members with larger groups - and that is for one of the more stable and easier to achieve scenarios! ("Easier" being very relative concept - it has still cost me a lot of sleepless nights and extra groups for piggies that never or no longer fit in with the large group.)

Keep in mind that the wild ancestor species (cavia aperea) of our domestic guinea pigs (cavia porcellus) lives in a number of small groups settling close to each other but forming a herd to go to their feeding grounds twice daily at dawn and at dusk to have protection in numbers. Boars living with generally 1-3 sows are fiercely territorial. Bachelor boars hang around on the outskirts, hoping to attract their own sow or sows to found their own sub-group. While the domestic farm species (which we know as our pet piggies, which has been bred out from wild guinea pigs ca. 3000-6000 years ago) has undergone some changes in terms of territorial needs, enough of these instincts remain; but the dichotomy between overgroup cohesion and sub-group behaviour means that things are not as striaght forward and as easy as they may seem and it is the reason why some combinations are much more likely to fail than others.

You also have to keep in mind that neutering boars or spaying sows doesn't change any of their social instincts or behaviours; the same rules still apply. A spayed sow may no longer come into season, but she is still functioning and behaving socially as a sow and is still emitting sow pheromones the same as neutered boars are still pumping out testosterone in their pee (and can stink up a room very nicely when they get overexcited) and are still emitting boar pheromones.

I hope that helps you understand the issue and the challenges involved better?

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars (see chapter four)
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Guinea Pig Facts - An Overview
 
Don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying and I am not some crazy Guinea pig lady that wants to have hundreds of Guinea pigs lol
I would just like 4-5,hopefully to be in a herd but if not I have enough space to have 2 seperate herds,maybe sows not sure yet.
I have just taken delivery of a 8ft x 6ft shed and plan on making it multiple level so plenty of room to run etc.
 
Don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying and I am not some crazy Guinea pig lady that wants to have hundreds of Guinea pigs lol
I would just like 4-5,hopefully to be in a herd but if not I have enough space to have 2 seperate herds,maybe sows not sure yet.
I have just taken delivery of a 8ft x 6ft shed and plan on making it multiple level so plenty of room to run etc.

If you want a small group, then opt for sows with or without one neutered boar; this is generally a fairly stable combination. Again, start with a core pair and then add from the bottom (to not upset the existing hierarchy) unless a rescue has got a mother with several daughters (could be rescue born) or (rarely available) a group of already bonded sows. If you can ask the rescue to either bond a broup of sows or to rescue date your pair for any later additions, then that will help. ;)
There has been recently a major rescue of piggies in the Manchester area, so there are currently a number of mothers and babies around or coming up for adoption in UK rescues.
 
i have had a succesful trio of older boars,but all the boars were very laid back.unfortunatley i have also had a very large amount of teenage boars who have had a full on fight within seconds of being placed in a large bonding pen.so now ive 4 boars who have to live as next door neighboars. now i have 6 sets of small herds with one neutered boar to 1 to 3 sows.this seems to be the best grouping.i had a dominant sow who had a fight with Jerry and knocked his jaw out,so you need to always have plan B,incase it does not go as you intend it to.!
 
I have been researching lately about herds and bonding etc...I have boars and what I mainly seem to be met with is this....
You can't keep more than 2 boars together
Trios of boars never work out
If you have more than 2 they will fight
No rescue will let me rehome any more boars because they say they can't be together

Now I understand this may be the case for some but I really don't think it's the rule...here's why...

Go take a look on YouTube for a channel called MY CRAZY GUINEA PIG FAMILY
and that's not just it there are quite a few channels on there with people who keep multiple boars together in a herd and they all get along fine🙂
I say if you introduce them properly and they all get along then why not?I mean shows can fall out and fight just as much as boars right?
Just me putting my thoughts down in writing lol🤣
What do you guys think?
Your wrong there with 3 boars...
When my zach and ollie was alive i got charlie who was 12 weeks at the time and he ended up in a 10x10 open pen with them and they got on really well..
Ok they was 2 and a bit years old at the time but guess charlie being only young helped at the time...
Depends on the circumstances
 
Your wrong there with 3 boars...
When my zach and ollie was alive i got charlie who was 12 weeks at the time and he ended up in a 10x10 open pen with them and they got on really well..
Ok they was 2 and a bit years old at the time but guess charlie being only young helped at the time...
Depends on the circumstances

There are working boar trios, and they are great when they work, but they are very much a minority, @Stuart74 .
Trio fall-outs are one of the most common issues we are contacted about in this section.
Be happy if you have a working trio; it is the most difficult piggy constellation in any gender combination to get right for the long term from my own ample experience.

The more sub-adults and the less space, the higher the fall-out rate in boar trios (baby boar quartets are near total) as a rule of thumb.
Sadly the vast majority of boys are not personality matched pet shop babies in too small cages. Adult and especially older boars do generally have a better success rate, but it very much depends on the personality constellation. As soon as you have more than one dominant boar (and he should not be so dominant that he is bullying the rest), a trio won't work - that also goes for any trio constellation of whatever gender.

While you can find exceptions to every rule when it comes to guinea pigs, our advice is for any new owners to please not set out to try and achieve the more difficult combinations unless they can find an already working stable boar trio. The last thing we want is to be contacted over fights just a few weeks down the line. Our aim is to help them to as happy and fulfilling an experience as possible, first and foremost. ;)
 
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