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Heart disease

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lakelandpiggy
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Lakelandpiggy

Hello,

Our much loved piggy, Dennis, has Congestive Heart Failure according to local vet (not cavy specialist). Dennis is 5/6 years old and we both know he probably doesn't have long for this world but want him to be as comfortable as possible. He is holding a lot of fluid on his chest, is becoming lethargic, has discharges from his eyes, a sometimes runny nose, but eats like crazy - esp grass and Raddichio. Almost has your hand off when feeding him them to him!

He's on 0.3ml Frusol twice a day and half a Vetmedin once a day plus Baytril. Spoke to nutritionist friend and she suggested Frusol can damage the kidneys. Apparently it depletes potassium which is important for him so I've got some dandelion tea leaves (dandelion is rich in potassium) and sprinkle them on his food. No fresh dandelion out up here as yet. I'm giving him a tad of Hawthorn in a liquid form each day as it helps the heart. But not at same time as other meds.

Have contacted a couple of vets who do have much knowledge of Piggies, one who said they would give similar meds and the other suggested using Enapril and Furosemide.

Any help would be appreciated as we don't want Dennis to suffer unduly.

Many thanks.
 
BTW Dennis has now got diarrhea (or however it's spelt...). Do you think this could be the result of his meds? Will speak to vet tomorrow anyway but your thoughts would be appreciated.

Am sure many of you have had Piggies in a similar condition :( . It is so heart-breaking as you know.

Thanks again.
 
I've got a piggie with heart disease and she takes 1/4 fortekor tablet daily. Last week she started to gain weight at an alarming rate and it was found that she was retaining fluid. She was prescribed 1/4 frusemide tablet. When this alone failed to stop the fluid building up she was also given 1/4 Spironolactone tablet. So far so good! She has really perked up and is looking so much brighter and energetic. Initially after starting the medication she also had severe diarrohea but it has now cleared and at all times she has been eating really well.
 
You could give him banana which would help to maintain his potassium level.
Keep giving him the diuretic, without wishing to sound unkind, he will die of old age or heart failure before any kidney damage might kill him.
 
We are very grateful for the advice. Many thanks.

Do any of you have experience of herbal remedies for Piggies?

Thank you.
 
Welcome to the forum, I am sorry Dennis isn't at all well.

Is his diarrhoea very watery, or are his poops still thick but poorly formed? A probiotic and rehydration solution (e.g. Dioralyte) for the next day should help put him back on the right track.

I've little else to add to what everyone else has advised. Frusol is Furosemide; this is the diuretic that will help reduce the fluid build up. Vetmedin's active ingredient is Pimobendan which, looking at experiences from members on Guinea Lynx, is a very useful drug for heart failure.

Re potassium levels, I believe dandelion is also a diuretic. Banana should help not only with potassium levels, but may also help firm his faeces again.

I've no experience with herbal remedies to speak of, I'm reading up a lot on more alternative and natural remedies as they do interest me greatly but it's early days.
 
The prevailing attitude towards herbal remedies is that they cause no harm, they may have some benefit.
If they were they were really effective they would be in widespread use.
Many people are impressed by the term "natural remedy". It is a good advertising slogan!
 
"Is his very watery, or are his poops still thick but poorly formed? A probiotic and rehydration solution (e.g. Dioralyte) for the next day should help put him back on the right track." Thick but poorly formed. Vet has taken hin off vetmedin and put him on Fortekor which he said would help with the diarrhoea. He's more bloated this evening and moves less though still eats very well. Vet cintacting exotics specialist in Edinburgh tomorrow.

Many thanks to you all.
 
Hello,

Dennis is even worse today. Has had his first Fortekar tablet today but is moving more slowly and looks ever so sad. Is going to the vet again tomorrow evening but we expect he'll advise he should be put to sleep. We've had 3 piggies, all brothers, and Dennis is the only one remaining. If you'd asked us 3 years or so ago (when we inherited them) that we'd be sooooooooo sad about a piggie's impending demise I would have not believed you. They are so special and lovely little creatures that ask for very little to make their lives complete. The human race could learn so much from Guinea Pigs (and animals in general) if it could be bothered. But of course it won't............. And we are supposed to be "intelligent".

Sorry to sound so morbid/sad/cynical but that's just the prevailing mood. Dennis is a MUCH loved little chap and he (and his brothers) have enriched our lives immeasurably. Life's real wealth is much more than possesions - as I'm sure all of you know without me preaching.

Thank you.
 
As am feeling very down forgot to ask - should we be giving Dennis many natural diuretics (as in celery, dandelion etc) on top of his Frusmol? His normal small "poo's" are all in a lump and are soft.

Thanks.
 
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Your last but one post was very moving and very true. Best wishes to you both, its a very hard time I know.Sorry I can't help more:(
 
I'm sorry I can't give any more advice than what's already been given, but I do know how hard it is to watch a piggy go downhill. Sometimes the best you can do is keep them comfortable and let them eat whatever pleases them most :)

It's a grand old age and it sounds like you've given him a great few years with you.

Sending hugs

Sophie
x
 
It is a difficult position to be in, but your words will be agreed with by many.

In answer to your question, I would be inclined to feed him whatever he wants. If celery and dandelion are being enjoyed, let him have them - spoil him while you can. At a time like this, when you are sure he is close to the end, any 'rules' about the diet can be dropped and the pig allowed to just have what he enjoys.
 
Hello,

Just a follow on re Dennis; when I came home from work today he looked really terrible, thin, listless and eyes closing. many tears I can assure you from me, but as soon as food was proffered - a different pig! Perked up considerably and was similar when at the vets 1/2 hour or so later. He was a s lively as he'd been for over a week.

Vet said his heart was steady, which was a surprise. perhaps the Fortekor suits Dennis. She said he might go in his sleep but would not be in pain - which was a relief. We are very happy we've got him for a little longer but won't "keep him in misery" for our own sake.

As expected Dennis has become very lethargic again but he still eats very well. He just seems so old, which I suppose he is in Guinea Pig terms. Thinks he needs a warm blanket, his pipe and slippers and a glass of the finest port! He certainly is a lovely old gent for sure.

I do find it odd that his heart sounded fine to the vet. Have any of you experienced similar with your piggies?

Many thanks for all the lovely messages. It's very thoughtful of you all.
 
My piggie, Poppet, is on Fortekor and has been since last October. She's also on diuretics due to fluid retention and the colour of her ears visibly darkens when she is put under the slightest stress, so almost without doubt there is a heart problem. However, it sounds completely fine.
 
Plasma screen?
Being serious, just for a second, I find that many pigs like to "watch" tv. Maybe the sound is more of an attraction than the pictures.
 
No plasma - just an old-fashioned CRT.

But yes, we've found Dennis seemed to be attracted by the TV. Maybe the movement on screen as well as the sound? And his brother Fudge did too when he was alive. They DIDN'T like "Zoo Vets at Large" though:))...

Thanks - again!
 
furryfriends said:
My piggie, Poppet, is on Fortekor and has been since last October. She's also on diuretics due to fluid retention and the colour of her ears visibly darkens when she is put under the slightest stress, so almost without doubt there is a heart problem. However, it sounds completely fine.
Click to expand...

How long has she been on the diuretics if I may ask? And is it Frusol or similar? And has Poppet lost weight?

Thanks.
 
Hi lp

You've asked a few questions in your posts so thought I'd reply.

A couple of my (genetically related) pigs are on heart meds. They don;t lose weight on the scales - physically they start losing muscle across the backbone/rump and gain fluid in the lungs and in one, the abdomen...hence why the scales tend to show constant weight, or in the case of abdominal fluid, increased weght.

They eat and drink well and their hearts sound fine - but X rays show enlarged hearts and/or fluid around the lungs....hence the heart meds.

Muffin has been on these meds now for 6 months and at first they made a big difference and she really perked up. However degenerative heart disease is just that.... and recently she has developed a lot of fluid in her abdomen and very laboured breathing...as well as oedema (swelling and fluid retention) around her front paws. She is currently on fortekor (1mg/kg) twice daily and we have recently upped the frusomide diuretic from 2mg/kg to 3mg/kg twice daily. She spends more of her time pancaked in her cage now - except when the fridge door opens or she is allowed to socialise with one of the boys during floor time (she is spayed). She is however still inquisitive, loving and alert.....and quite capable of putting a lusty male in his place with a withering look and teeth chatter.

The diuretic can make them dehydrated - and crusty eyes is an indication. If I think they're getting a bit dehydrated I give them a boost with Recovery plus ground up Vit C tablets.... which they eagerly trough off a spoon...and also syringe some water - perks them up immediately. I also now have bowls of water in the cages as well as a water bottle - even if they don;t drink from the bowl, it helps raise the humidity and stops their airways drying out from the central heating.

Another of my pigs has stuck together poos from time to time - I'm not sure if the fortekor is responsible (I think it does upset some pigs even if only temporarily) as he has had other problems following his neutering which may contribute to it. I regularly check to make sure he doesn;t get impaction and when he is having an episode of sticky poos/diarrhoea give him zantac on the advice of my exotics vet and reduce his green veggies for a day or so. The pink tablets over the counter are 75mg - I crush one in 7.5ml of water (gives a solution of 10mg/ml) and give him 0.4ml once daily (3mg/kg - he weighs 1.3kg). Just one dose is enough to get things moving properly again if they are formed sticky or squishy poos but if they are more of a watery mass, then 2-3 days normally sorts it out.

Lastly my old timer Grommie (6yo) is part of the slippers and TV brigade. He was recently put on heart meds but the fortekor compounded his bloat problems so I just have him on frusemide. He has fluid around the lungs but not in the abdomen. His weight can fall alarmingly and he can get dehydrated more easily than the other piggies - so he now gets boosted with Recovery or mushed pellets and Vit C every evening .....he is now also very fussy about his veg and will only eat spinach, grass, dandelions, parsley, celery and cucumber...Despite causing me a lot of anxiety and vets visits, (and also losing his mate two months ago) now that we have finally worked out a routine/diet/meds that suits him (has taken 5 months), it would appear he is still determined to soldier on......and is now albeit very slowly, gaining weight across his rump.....


HTH

Pebble
xx
 
Hello all,

Dearest Dennis passed away last Sunday (21st Feb). He made a strange "hooting" type noise early in the morning which, as we were awake, heard from our bedroom (doors all open as we were "listening" for him since he'd become ill). We went down to investigate and he seemed quite lively, so we gave him a cuddle, put him back in his home and he had what appeared to be a spasm or fit. Got him out again and he had 2/3 more spasm's/fits and passed away on our laps. Felt his last breath on my hand. Although this was too quick to call a vet, with hindsight I'd have taken him to an exotic specialist immediately he became ill instead of a regular vet.

Am presuming the spasm's were in fact heart attacks. Even though it was a situation we feared would happen we wanted to be there for his passing so he wouldn't be alone. If you see what I mean.

Although this happened a week ago I (we) still feel desperately sad writing this. today. We cried like babies after he'd gone. He was so much more than "just a Guinea Pig". He had personality in abundance and was an intelligent little chap too - always ran over to his bowl when wanting food and at the same time looking back at you in a hopeful manner as if to say "my bowls empty - get some food - FAST"! And he seemed to learn not to pee on you when handling him. Maybe that was because he was less nervous at being handled but he rarely peed on us in the last year or so (we acquired them at 3 years old (ish) 2.5 years ago).

What he was (and his now departed brothers) will live on with us. Don't know if I've said this before but the human race could learn so much from Guinea Pigs if it could be bothered too. Such as just take what you need. Am sure we've learnt far more from them than they did from us. As my partner says "there's much more to Guinea Pigs than at first appears". We've been privileged that they shared their lives with us - just wish it could have been MUCH longer.

We have been very grateful for all the support and help you have given to Dennis and ourselves.

Thank you.
 
Was editing my last post re the "just a Guinea Pig" part but ran over time allocated for editing. Was trying to say that all animals are more than "just a.....". It's a saying that infuriates me me - they are all special and unique in my opinion, whatever breed or type they may be. Sad really that many don't recognise this and bother to observe animals more.

Thanks.
 
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The spasms that you mentioned are part of the shutting down process, he would not have been in any pain. I hope that is some consolation, at least he waited for you to be with him.
 
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