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Heart Piggy

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Ali_x

Ali_x

Junior Guinea Pig
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hi everyone

Just looking for advice/opinions on something..

Teddy is my 1 year old male, he's been recently diagnosed with an enlarged heart with fluid on lungs which was picked up from CT scan.. after months of me persisting that it wasn't a URI!

The only symptoms he had were hooting and sneezing, not much loss of energy, quick to run away when being grabbed and eating really well

So he's been started on 0.1 ml Furoesmide and an anti inflammatory called Meticam. The vet said about ACE inhibitors but doesn't want to start them yet.

He's been on these meds for two weeks now and I had found hooting had gone and sneezing. He's not sneezing now but the hooting is happening again sometimes.

Just wondered if others had just been started on Furesmide and not ACE inhibitors and if they found it worked for their piggys. I'm thinking of pushing for ACE inhibitors but I don't think my vet is keen on starting him on them yet.

Also wondered if anyone knew of any piggy heart expert vets in Wiltshire area, incase I want a second opinion. (note this vet now is actually and exotics vet but hadn't picked up on heart problem until CT scan and research I've done has shown most pigs have been started on ACE inhibitors so jus want to make sure I'm doing the right thing

Thanks!
 
@Ali_x Yeah. One of my pigs was initially on Furosemide but it wasn't quite doing the trick.

After much pestering the vet finally gave us Fortekor too. And then Vetmedin further down the line.

It was quite a few years ago so i can't remember the doses exactly, but I'll have a look tomorrow. Give me a poke if I don't post and I'll find out.

I think he was on quite a high dose of Furosemide too, but I'm really not certain.

My boy lived for 2 years on the med's before a completely unrelated problem took him from me, so hopefully you boy can have many happy years ahead of him.
 
All of my heart pigs started on an ACE inhibitor with diuretic as needed. I would see if your vet would agree to it as it affects the way in which the heart works. Mine are on Benazepril which has a few brand names like Fortekor and Nelio. Diuretic is used to clear fluid but the fluid will keep occurring if an ACE inhibitor is not used aswell.
 
Sorry to hear about your pigs diagnosis but we'll done for persisting when you weren't happy with the vets previous diagnosis!

I have a heart piggy too, we're now 21 months since her diagnosis and she's just recently celebrated her 8th birthday!

You are right to push for a heart drug such as fortekor. The fluid in the lungs is because the heart isn't functioning properly. The frusemide (diuretic) helps get rid of that fluid, but it isn't dealing with the problem. Its vital for managing the condition but it's sort of like just taking pain killers for a broken limb and not seeking treatment for it.

Firstly I'd go for another (conscious) chest xray to see how the fluid situation is whilst you are on this dose of frusemide. Hooting intermittently suggests it is helping but maybe not quite enough. What strength is the frusemide/frusol? There is 2 strengths, 0.1ml is low in either case but this is a good thing.. the less your piggy needs to control the fluid, the better!

Once you've got the fluid under control and confirmed with chest xray (listening to the chest on its own isn't enough for comparison ), you should try and add in a drug such as fortekor. This should help the heart to function better which in turn should mean less fluid is being produced. Best case scenario you can get him off regular frusemide doses once he's stable on an ACE inhibitor- my piggies case is severe and she's never been able to manage on less than 1ml of frusemide from the start but with your piggy requiring much less diuretics, it may be something you'll be able to achieve .

In the meantime, keep as you are doing and contact the vet if there's any decline in his breathing or increased hooting as the frusemide dose may need to be increased. Chest xray's are an important part of monitoring fluid and in turn adjusting medications. With heart meds such as ACE inhibtors, it's best to start on a low dose and slowly increase until things stabilise. Over time, the doses will need adjusting as things advance but with regular vet checks this should be manageable. Don't be disheartened if your piggy sysyem doesn't agree with a particular heart med I.e gut wise.. there are a few options and luckily fortekor seems to be generally well tolerated.

If there's any decline in his activity levels or circulation I.e puffy limbs, pale or blue tinge to nose, lips or tongue then do insist on heart meds as these are signs that the heart is struggling more and needs some help.

I hope your piggy stabilises soon, good luck!xx
 
I wrote a thread a couple of weeks ago but can't seem to find it to add to it so have to start a new one...

I wrote that after a year of persistence at the vets and changing vets, I finally had my guinea pig diagnosed with an enlarged heart and fluid on lungs. He was started on Furesmide and the symptoms (which were only the hooting and laboured breathing occasionally) have much improved.

I wrote before for advice on meds as my vet was reluctant to start ACE inhibitors whilst on furesmide, they prefer to stabilise the fluid, then start ACE inhibitors. I read a lot of info that heart guineas tended to be started on both so pushed for this.

My vet agreed that I can start him on Prilium (Imidapril) at 0.5ml once a day. I'm happy with this but the vet is cautious that as he's on furesmide, he's at risk of getting low blood pressure being on both and collapsing.

Has anyone had any personal experience of their pigs being on both treatments and what doses were they on etc?

The doses for Teddy are Furesmide 0.2ml twice a day; had to be increased as hooting was still the occurring on 0.1ml twice a day

And the Imidapril is 0.5ml once a day

Me and Teddy would appreciate any advice!

IMG_0083.webp
 
Have not come across Imidapril before so am not familiar with the dosages. Adelle may know. Is it possible to confirm the doses in mg though? Then I can compare to my pigs' Benazepril doses.
 
helen105281 said:
Have not come across Imidapril before so am not familiar with the dosages. Adelle may know. Is it possible to confirm the doses in mg though? Then I can compare to my pigs' Benazepril doses.
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I think it works out at 0.25 mg

Would there be a risk of using both with causing a low blood pressure?
 
That's
Ali_x said:
I think it works out at 0.25 mg

Would there be a risk of using both with causing a low blood pressure?
Click to expand...


0.25 mg is the Imidapril.. not sure what mg the Furos is.. its 40mg/5 ml and I've got 20ml and I'm using 0.002 ml twice a day
 
Imidapril is an ace inhibitor like benazapril but isn't the same drug so I can't really comment on doses etc.

The frusemide is 40mg/5ml which means there is 8mg in 1ml of furosemide. If you are giving 0.2ml (you have said this and 0.002ml but I'm assuming you meant the first one?) Then you are giving 1.6mg of furosemide- that's the low end of the dose range but if it is making him breathe easy then it's the right dose for him so don't worry about querying that unless his breathing worsens again.

The ace inhibitor lowers blood pressure yes, but that's it's job.. the only way this would be a danger would be if he was given a higher dose than necessary and his blood pressure would become too low. You would know if this was the case as he would become lethargic. The best way to prevent this is to start on a low dose and increase until his symptoms improve with respects to heart rate, respiratory effort, circulation and oxygen levels (the last 2 things are often monitored by the colour of the gums and tongue, nice and bright pink and not pale or blue/purple tinged.)

The aim of the ace inhibitor is to improve the hearts function enough that there is no fluid build up and no need for furosemide... but this isn't always achievable. However to ever find out, he needs to be on both drugs. And regardless if he can have his furosemide reduced when his heart is functioning better or if he still needs the sale dose.. the ace inhibitor is vital to keep his heart working more normally and prevent it failing altogether.

When my girl was first diagnosed, the worry with the meds was more because of the effect on the kidneys and the fact she was already elderly and could have damaged kidney already. .. but my girl is on 4x the amount of frusemide your boy is on every 8 hours, a high dose of ace inhibitor (benazapril) every 8 hours, another heart drug (pimobendan) every 12 hours AND another diuretic at maximum dose twice a day (when should only be once a day).. and she is now 2 years into her diagnosis and is 8 years old.. with a strong heart and functioning kidneys! Never mind her total zest for life on top of that.

Stick to your guns, keep up with regular veterinary attention and medication reviews.. you know your boy best and have done your research. Keep an eye out for signs his meds need adjusting and see the vet accordingly- it's the most important part of managing this condition safely.
 
Adelle said:
Imidapril is an ace inhibitor like benazapril but isn't the same drug so I can't really comment on doses etc.

The frusemide is 40mg/5ml which means there is 8mg in 1ml of furosemide. If you are giving 0.2ml (you have said this and 0.002ml but I'm assuming you meant the first one?) Then you are giving 1.6mg of furosemide- that's the low end of the dose range but if it is making him breathe easy then it's the right dose for him so don't worry about querying that unless his breathing worsens again.

The ace inhibitor lowers blood pressure yes, but that's it's job.. the only way this would be a danger would be if he was given a higher dose than necessary and his blood pressure would become too low. You would know if this was the case as he would become lethargic. The best way to prevent this is to start on a low dose and increase until his symptoms improve with respects to heart rate, respiratory effort, circulation and oxygen levels (the last 2 things are often monitored by the colour of the gums and tongue, nice and bright pink and not pale or blue/purple tinged.)

The aim of the ace inhibitor is to improve the hearts function enough that there is no fluid build up and no need for furosemide... but this isn't always achievable. However to ever find out, he needs to be on both drugs. And regardless if he can have his furosemide reduced when his heart is functioning better or if he still needs the sale dose.. the ace inhibitor is vital to keep his heart working more normally and prevent it failing altogether.

When my girl was first diagnosed, the worry with the meds was more because of the effect on the kidneys and the fact she was already elderly and could have damaged kidney already. .. but my girl is on 4x the amount of frusemide your boy is on every 8 hours, a high dose of ace inhibitor (benazapril) every 8 hours, another heart drug (pimobendan) every 12 hours AND another diuretic at maximum dose twice a day (when should only be once a day).. and she is now 2 years into her diagnosis and is 8 years old.. with a strong heart and functioning kidneys! Never mind her total zest for life on top of that.

Stick to your guns, keep up with regular veterinary attention and medication reviews.. you know your boy best and have done your research. Keep an eye out for signs his meds need adjusting and see the vet accordingly- it's the most important part of managing this condition safely.
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Thank you so much, this is very helpful and I'm so glad and relieved that there's good outcomes after diagnosis like with your piggy!

I became over paranoid when I got Teddy because I lost one of my boys last year to what I think was undiagnosed heart failure, as they were treating him for URI but his symptoms became worse and he died, I wasn't going to let that happen again!

So when Teddy got his symptoms of hooting and the abx didn't work, it took me months of persisting and trying 3 vets and spending over £1,000 but I got there now so I'm going to stick with it!

I'm so glad your piggy is doing good as well

Well I'll keep with this treatment and hope he goes strong!

Thanks
 
I hope Teddy continues to go strong too brave little guy! The fact you were persistent and willing to keep searching shows how much you love him. Teddy is a very lucky piggy indeed
 
I have had two pigs with heart problems and both have been very successfully treated with Vetmedin (this is a calcium sensitiser and selective inhibitor of phosphodiesterase 3) and Frusol. The Frusol was gradually reduced as the fluid reduced arounf the heart.
 
Heart Pig

i think this is your original thread? @sport_billy @BossHogg @VickiA or @LisaAli (Wiebke's on hols) might be able to merge them together if you would like?

i had a heart piggy who i had to pester the vets for a heart meds trial, my original vet refused to even consider it was heart related, i eventually managed to get a different vet from the practice to diagnose that she had a heart murmur - he could hear she had a faulty valve.
We used Nelio (ACE inhibitor) daily - it's a few years ago now but think the dose was 0.25g twice a day & Frusimide (diuretic) when needed -unfortunately i think the condition was too far advanced by then & she was 8yrs old with some other health issues, the diagnosis & meds trial just came too late for her :(

as Adelle's Fudge & Helen105281's number of heart piggies is living proof of heart meds giving these Guineas a manageable condition with a prolonged & excellent quality of life :nod:

Keep up the vet nagging if needed, i had to- Good luck
healing vibes for your little man, love the girls & I. :wub:
 
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I have merged your two threads together as you had good replies on both
 
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