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Heartbreaking Decision...

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lewpylew

lewpylew

Junior Guinea Pig
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Have been sat here sobbing my eyes out for nearly an hour and needed to post as have nobody to talk to.

My piggy Sammy was 3 last month and has a few bladder infections in the past which we've been able to treat.

Just under 3 weeks ago I noticed her wee was pinky and took her to the vets. She was on Baytril for a week. Things seems to clear up after 6 days but the next day the bloody urine came back. She had x rays done on 21st may and a bladder stone was removed from her urethra. It was around 0.75cm long. I took her back to vets 2 days later as there was still a lot of bloody urine and they removed a little more stone.

We went back Thursday and Friday this week where she had another x-ray. There is still a stone on her bladder but only a small one. The urethra is clear, the problem is she has a very wet bottom. She is on 0.5ml Baytril twice daily and Metacam.

She has stopped drinking water and eating pellets, and tends to sit still if I don't encourage her to move in the cage. I put them on the lawn for a bit earlier and she enjoyed some grass and has been eating celery and cucumber today and taken some water by syringe.

I just feel am I making her suffer unnecessarily. She has climbed up the cage a few times to get food but just looks really sad. Is this due to the medicine and pain. I just don't know what to do. In my head its like I've prepared myself for the worse, but am clinging on to a miracle.

Sorry for long post x
 
I am so sorry for your pain. I totally understand your sadness. Hopefully somebody can advice you. @helen105281 I had to have my beautiful girl put to sleep as she had cancer so I know how you feel. Hugs to you.xx
 
Oh no... I'm really sorry to hear about that! :( Me and my family are sending hugs are prayers to you and you poorly piggie. It is always good to cry as it lets out all of your emotions, which is mentally healthier, than keeping them in and not being able to concentrate in different situations. It seems like its very stressful for you and the piggie. Its good that she was eating her celery and cucumber :tu: All the best! x:hug:
 
Only you can make that hard choice but if she is drinking from a syringe and eating certain things you could rinse the veg and leave extra water on it to help flush her out. Its always hard thinking of your animals suffering. Thinking of you x
 
It is such a difficult decision to make but I am a firm believer in better a day too early than a minute too late. However, there are some things to consider:

- What does the vet propose to do about the stone in the bladder?
- What dose of Metacam is she on?
- Has the vet considered Septrin for treating any infection?

I did have my Maddie PTS when she had a stone however, it was lodged between the urethra and bladder, and she was literally trembling in pain when peeing and pooing, and we could not control the pain on high doses of Metacam and Tramadol together. The stone was also causing recurring infections because of the location. She was also a heart pig and so any potential op would most likely have not been succesful and we did not want to put her through it. Your situation is slightly different though.

If you do decide to go ahead with any op I think your vet needs to consider the use of Cystease as I mentioned on your other thread.
 
Hi!

I am very sorry for the situation you are in. Where are you located? We have got a piggy savvy vet locator on our top bar for our UK members. Some of our medical advice also depends on your country. You can add your country, state or (UK) county by clicking on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details/location.

The first thing your vets should have done is an x-ray as soon as they noticed a stone to make sure that they got everything out; as long as she hasn't got them all out, she will be very painful and sore and her problems will continue to persist.
Have you been given metacam for her? This is a painkiller and anti-inflammatory. If not, please ask your vets for it! Pain relief is very important, as bladder stones are extremely painful; metacam will also help with the inflammation of the bladder walls.
What kind of antibiotic is she on? Septrin (UK)/bactrim (US) is the recommended antibiotic for bladder problems.
You can buffer the effect of an antibiotic on her guts by giving her a pinch of probiotic about 1-2 hours after the antibiotic. For bladder piggies, we recommend avipro plus as it doesn't have any added calcium for the long term; you should be able to order it online. If not, try for bio-lapsis; that is sold world-wide as far as I know. For the short term, you can hopefully find some probiotic in your local pet shop.
You can additionally help by giving your girl cystease, cystaid or vegetarian glucosamine; this is a food supplement that coats the bladder walls and helps with the damage that the stones have done.

You can also try to be pro-active with the diet; we generally find that a low calcium diet helps towards the prevention of more stones forming. You may find this thread here helpful, but other members have more advice on what constitutes a good bladder piggy diet and prefer a specific mix of low calcium veg. https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...or-piggies-an-option-to-be-considered.105930/

Please weigh your girl daily. The immense pain is denting her appetite. You may need to top her up with either recovery food like Critical Care or by mushing pellets in boiled, cooled water (in this case, mix the probiotic into the recovery food). Cut the narrow tip off a 1ml syringe just below where it widens for easier feeding. Feed half the syringe at a time; that is about a mouthful and prevents things from going down the wrong way.

If she is not drinking well, offer her water via syringe; as much as she will take. Many bladder piggies are bad drinkers.

I have had several stone girls. Most have made a good recovery and lived for several months or years after the stones had been got out. I only lost one piggy to bladder trauma/damage after her second very scratchy stone and an additional cancerous polyp in her bladder; this was 14 months after her first stone op. She was in a very bad state with a large first stone (even bigger than yours), but I did have that extra precious year with my very special Minx for which I will always be grateful, so it is worth fighting on!

Unless the stones are wedged in a very awkward place or there are other health problems, bladder stone operations in sows are generally pretty straight forward and tend to heal quickly without problems.
 
I asked the vet about the other drugs and she spoke about them with me but had no history of treating piggies with them.

I've splt the Metacam in to two smaller doses to help with the pain. Just been in to see them and she's taken a bit more celery covered in water.

Have given her around 4ml of water today, plus she's had cucumber, celery and grass. No ideal I know but it's what she wanted to eat.

There are no stones in her urethra any more but think she has irritation and cystitis. I keep turning hay so she's not sat in wet hay.

I am near Southampton.

She has already lost 200grams and probably more now : (

She's on Baytril. Her poos are very small but is it good she is pooing?

Just would love to come down in the morning & see an improvement : )
 
Yes it's the dog one. Hope I'm not making her worse as just following what they've told me.

It's the bloody urine/wet bottom and lack of eating and drinking that's hard to see : (
 
That is a good dose but there is scope to go higher or add in something like Tramadol if needed. Though I do not think a pig should be kept on high doses of pain killers if the original illness is not going to get better.

It is worth asking your vet about Septrin too.

Can you confirm your location?
 
Yep Southampton in Hampshire. Will she be ok overnight or should I be doing something? Sorry just feel helpless and would you keep dabbing her bottom to dry it or am I better leaving her so not to stress her out anymore.
 
I am no expert but the fact she is pooing still is a sign her bowels/gut are working. No pooing at all means the guts could have gone into stasis which is not good. Def go and see another vet esp as she lost that weight, as she can be treated further. Wishing you all the best.
 
Have a look on the Vet locator and see if there is one near you. I would wipe it yes as she could get sore otherwise. I think she will be ok overnight but do try to get her seen as soon as possible.
 
Sounds like I am doing the right things so just got to work with her and hope she fights this. Thank you all x
 
The metacam dose is about right. You can go a bit higher for a very short amount of time in an emergency.

The watery veg and plenty of fresh grass are very good for her to eat.

The blood may be due to bladder trauma. I had that problem with a 5 year old sow of mine, who was suddenly bleeding really badly; thankfully my local vets were staying open for me to get there. she was very poorly and painful for a few days but has pulled through and half a year later is still with me and eyeing up her sixth birthday.

Please wipe her bum gently with some warm water. If it is sore-looking, use sudocrem or bepanthen to soothe the skin. Change the bedding where she is sitting/sleeping once or twice daily.

You are doing the right thing. I hope that you can get your vets to operate on her bladder to get the last stone out at some point. Your closest recommended vet is in Andover, so quite a way away.
 
I recommend Anton vets in Andover (about 45min drive from portsmouth...so less from southampton).... i am in Portsmouth an travel their for my two piggies who have thyroid and heart issues. John (the vet) also dose a clinic most Fridays at seadown vets in hythe (southampton), although not every week.
 
I've got a bladder piggy who has had a bladder flush, lots of UTIs & investigations & she passes blood every now & then & I have spent nearly £2000 on her in the last 18 months but I don't regret it. She has an excellent quality of life & is now 4 years old. She was also on Tramadol & Metacam, I suggest you ask for Septrin or Marbocyl instead of Baytril (Why do vets even still prescribe this for piggies? Because it is licensed!) You could also ask about monthly Cartrophen injections, these are around £14 & so far have kept my piggy mostly free of UTIs.
 
I am so sorry to hear about Sammy. I can only offer my experience. I had a gorgeous girl, she had a real lust for life but when she was three she had bladder stones. It took my lovely vet nearly two hours to remove them as they were barbed ( in her words it was a hatchet job and she had to resort to optical instruments due to the delicate nature of the op) I was told to expect to lose her but try anyway. For two days I was with her day and night ( she cried if I was not by her) she was in utter agony and I did a lot of soul searching. However she recovered. She then got some more stones which were removed from the outside ( she had nearly passed them).

After this I knew prevention was the only way to keep her going. She had filtered water, I used the rate watchers guinea pig diet for bladder pigs, I took her off oxbow cavy cuisine and she had between 15-20 ml of water twice a day, EVERY DAY for the rest of her life. I also used cystease on the rare occasions she had cystitis. She lived until she was 7.5, she had heart problems but so much wanted to live that we did everything we could for her (you should have seen her vet notes...it was like a book!) my vet was fully supportive and a few times I asked if I was doing the right thing...in her opinion we were. sadly she had to be pts when she got a massive cancerous tumour. She was incontinent towards the end and every day she had to have her bottom washed and her fleece changed but she loved life. She wanted to live and I did everything I could do all the time I knew she wanted to keep going. The day she said she had had enough was the day her tumour grew and I did what she wanted.

What I am saying is if Sammy is alert and happy and strong ( he may feel sick but you can tell if they want to fight it) and you have the energy, the miracles can be achieved. It's down to the individual piggy, and with her she confounded all the vets and lived a very happy life and to be hoNest was my best friend for a long time.

I hope her story helps you. I miss her like mad but her story has helped many when times were tough. Hugs to you. Xx
 
I forgot to mention, she also took Uriflow which you have to buy from the US. It's a natural supplement for humans with bladder issues. She had this with her supplemented water every day.
 
Well we've made it through the weekend without Sammy getting any worse which is progress in my eyes. She's still not doing a lot but when you bring food in she gets all excited and comes over to investigate and climbs the bar. She had 45 mins on the lawn yesterday and was walking around eating it in the run. She's still not eating hay or drinking water, so she is having grass, celery, cucumber, green pepper and dandelions that I put water on. I am also giving her a little by syringe.

Her belly/bottom is still wet and bloody but is slowing down. She is still in pain but we are only on day 3 since she was prodded and poked around again. I've noticed she's torn out bits of her fur from her tummy guess where it was wet and matted. I am work a full day today and hope she's ok. Would you be inclined to clear her properly underneath, or should I just use warm water and cotton wool as I have been doing?

Re the eating, I'm hoping as the bladder gets better and cystitis gets better she will start eating again. Guess the Metacam and Baytril plus the pain making her sad :(
 
It is mostly the pain that is making her sad. Please have her seen again by a piggy savvy vet if things are not picking up in the next few days. Baytril is not the best antibiotic for bladder problems and the remaining stone is continuing to irritate the bladder.
 
They did say they could operate but don't think I could put her through that :( Not sure how I can get to a piggy savvy vet as I work and have had so much time off as my baby has been poorly lately. I may give the one local a call albeit it's about 30 miles away and see what they suggest.

Trying to think positive but feel so helpless trapped at work :(
 
I'm not sure if its really relevant or if its of any help, but I'm sure I read a post on here somewhere in the last 2months or so. That someone was having problems with red/bloody looking wee &one of the replies was about her going on grass, this apparently was a chemical reaction of the stomach towards grass.
&will correct itself when the gut is used to grass again.
Although the leaking of wee, is probably connected to her stones&nothing to do with grass eating at all. Not sure if anyone can remember the post or knows if this has any relevance to your situation?
Would the vet be prepared to up the dose of metacam, as its an antiinflammatory &painkiller too. So a double whammy of positiveness :)
Healing vibes & hope your piggy's soon sorted&on the road to recovery :))
Xx
 
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