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Help/advice for piggie with unusual diagnosis!

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PiggiePenthouse

PiggiePenthouse

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi there,
I have a two-and-a-half-ish Rex female called Martha, she is a rescue piggie so I've only had her since January this year. In Feb she started squealing when going for a wee and so trips back and forth to the vets confirmed she had a urine/bladder infection. The squealing stopped for a while, but kept coming back every now and again, but it was when she was weeing or passing pellets. The vets continued to treat her for a bladder infection and encouraged me to give her extra fluids etc, but I new something wasn't quite right. Eventually a different vet put her under for an exploratory and said the lining of her urethra looked thickened, but they didn't have small enough instruments to do a thorough check, so referred me back to my original vet. They then did exactly the same exploratory and although x-rays have been completely clear, discovered she had a small papaloma growth in her vagina. They didn't attempt to remove it. They didn't come up with any solution as to how to treat it, apart from perhaps sourcing some anti-viral cream and putting her under each time to apply it. So really I'm no further forward and Martha is squealing all the time when she goes to the toilet because obviously it must be uncomfortable.
What I'd like to find out please is whether anyone has ever heard of this type of papaloma before and is it treatable or is this something that she will just have to put up with? Thankfully she is eating and drinking normally and active with her two other indoor rescue piggie friends.
Many thanks
Sarah
 
Aw, poor Martha :(
I have no experience or real advice for this but maybe find an Exotic Vet who can give her the treatment she really needs.
My first thought was spaying her but again, I'm no expert...I cannot get my head around her having GA so often :(
Did the Vet give you any pain relief as Metacam is an analgesia and anti-inflammatory so could make Martha more comfy ?
It's heartbreaking to see them in pain but I would seriously consider finding a more experienced Vet if possible and hope someone can help you :)
Hugs from us x
 
I hope that somebody with more experience in this rather unusual case will come on. I have so far never heard of a papilloma in that place.
 
Thank you for your replies Wiebke and Guinea pig slave. It was actually an exotic pet veterinary clinic in West Kent that diagnosed her. I've even tried emailing/speaking to Cambridge Cavy Trust but got no further :(
Sounds like maybe Martha is an extreme rare case. She was obviously misdiagnosed in the beginning with a bladder infection, but that seemed the obvious diagnosis then.
 
I've tried googling the condition and come back with miniscule info :( Apparently, this condition appears to be viral and based on that, would it be related to the genital wart or similar virus ?
Have you heard of guinealynx - it's a medical forum in the US (I think) so possibly someone on there could give you advice if it's only some pointers ?
Really wish we could offer more help :(

http://www.guinealynx.info/
 
Wow, that's really helpful - many thanks! I've just spoken to Highcroft and got an email address off them, so have just sent them details plus Martha's medical history and x-rays taken when she had the exploratory procedure. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Will let you all know how I get on! Thanks again x
 
It was my pig that Richard Saunders operated on. Hers was somewhat different in that it actually turned out to be uterine hyperplasia (over growth of the stump of her uterus that was left over when she was spayed, which then prolapsed) but he's definitely a good port of call for advice. He's one of the vets at Bristol Zoo, and is very big in the world of rabbit medicine. He's treated a couple of my pigs for strange problems with surgical intervention and I've been very pleased with the care they've received.
 
Thats interesting to know, I never realised he was good with piggies too.
 
Following on from this thread, I wondered if anyone could recommend an exotic vet in the South East who might have come across this ailment before? I spoke to Highcroft Referrals and they offered to speak to my existing vet (unfortunately he's the type of person who wouldn't appreciate another vet telling him what to do and he's really hard to get hold of!) or I take Martha to Bristol on a referral. To be honest, Bristol is too far for me and Martha to travel from Kent and the costs would be too high :(
I'm still eager to find her a solution.
Thanks again
 
Last edited:
Hi PP

Poor Martha....and poor you. I can understand your frustration and commend you for trying to find the best possible outcome for Martha. It is very difficult to know what to do when a piggie has an "unusual" diagnosis and I have been in the same position as yourself a few years ago.

Let's review the current situation for Martha:
The first endoscopy showed what could be a thickening of the urethra.....I have found one single paper where a similar symptom was reported to be due to a papilloma virus in a guinea pig
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816377

The second endoscopy, with the smaller instrument revealed a wart-like growth in the vagina.....together with the above, it would be reasonable for the vet to think a papilloma virus is therefore the cause.

The thing is that the vaginal wart may be just one area of infection by the virus and you can;t rule out that the urethra might also be affected.

What can you do? Firstly you have to separate out between symptoms and cause.

The main symptom that needs alleviating is the pain..especially if it is preventing her from eating which it sounds like it isn;t atm. Metacam may help in the interim and also reduce inflammation....also perhaps something like cystaid to support the mucosa of the urinary system may help take away the "sting"...best to discuss this with your vet.

Obviously if you can eliminate the cause ie the virus...that would be preferable as you would hopefully also eliminate the symptoms.

It's not possible to surgically remove the thickened part of the urethra....and your vet hasn;t suggested surgically removing the vaginal wart...so surgery does not appear to be an option
Sadly there are no systemic oral anti-virals either for humans or guinea pigs for what is essentially a viral infection of the mucus membranes. In humans genital warts are treated topically.

The vet has suggested a topical treatment for the wart in the vagina in the hope this may relieve the pain....but would wish to apply it under a light sedation and I think it is the sedation that you are unhappy about.....perhaps it is worth another discussion with the vet about exactly what that sedation may entail as a whiff of gas is not so much of a risk to piggies as a full injectable/reversible anaesthetic.


You have been to see the two most cavy-savvy/best equipped vets in Kent....if you want another opinion I'm afraid you will have go further afield. You also need to be aware that this is not a recognised or well-documented problem in guinea pigs....although it might be more common than we are currently aware of......so your choice of vets willing and able to take on this type of case given the complexities and small size of the guinea pig urino-genital system is limited.

The nearest available vet I would recommend is Rob Reynolds/Melissa Nollet at Seers Croft in Horsham...they are my own exotics vets and have been very good at dealing with unusual cases with my own guinea pigs. They may however want to perform their own diagnostics which would include maybe an ultrasound, further endoscopy and maybe a biopsy to confirm and be warned they are not cheapest! You also have to weigh up that they may come to the same conclusion/recommendation as your current vet. If it were me, I would also like to find out whether there is a likelihood that the urethra is involved...and if so whether it is the main cause of the pain...and if the topical treatment would also address any problems with the urethra.


You have my sympathy as it's not an easy decision to make...and it could be a very expensive one......but I do understand totally why you want to seek a further opinion.
If you feel that the current vet would not take kindly to a second opinion...perhaps you could go back to the other vet who I believe is always willing to seek further advice and ask them to contact Richard Saunders.....and also a few other vets who may be able to offer some insight which include John Chitty in Andover, Lance Jepson at St James in Neath, Wales and maybe someone from the Royal Dik School in Edinburgh. This at least would be a cheaper option than another round of investigations with a third vet and may help to assist you in whether to go forwards with the topical treatment.

I hope this helps - I'm happy to talk this through with you on the phone if you want to PM me your number.
x
 
Pebble said:
Hi PP

Poor Martha....and poor you. I can understand your frustration and commend you for trying to find the best possible outcome for Martha. It is very difficult to know what to do when a piggie has an "unusual" diagnosis and I have been in the same position as yourself a few years ago.

Let's review the current situation for Martha:
The first endoscopy showed what could be a thickening of the urethra.....I have found one single paper where a similar symptom was reported to be due to a papilloma virus in a guinea pig
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816377

The second endoscopy, with the smaller instrument revealed a wart-like growth in the vagina.....together with the above, it would be reasonable for the vet to think a papilloma virus is therefore the cause.

The thing is that the vaginal wart may be just one area of infection by the virus and you can;t rule out that the urethra might also be affected.

What can you do? Firstly you have to separate out between symptoms and cause.

The main symptom that needs alleviating is the pain..especially if it is preventing her from eating which it sounds like it isn;t atm. Metacam may help in the interim and also reduce inflammation....also perhaps something like cystaid to support the mucosa of the urinary system may help take away the "sting"...best to discuss this with your vet.

Obviously if you can eliminate the cause ie the virus...that would be preferable as you would hopefully also eliminate the symptoms.

It's not possible to surgically remove the thickened part of the urethra....and your vet hasn;t suggested surgically removing the vaginal wart...so surgery does not appear to be an option
Sadly there are no systemic oral anti-virals either for humans or guinea pigs for what is essentially a viral infection of the mucus membranes. In humans genital warts are treated topically.

The vet has suggested a topical treatment for the wart in the vagina in the hope this may relieve the pain....but would wish to apply it under a light sedation and I think it is the sedation that you are unhappy about.....perhaps it is worth another discussion with the vet about exactly what that sedation may entail as a whiff of gas is not so much of a risk to piggies as a full injectable/reversible anaesthetic.


You have been to see the two most cavy-savvy/best equipped vets in Kent....if you want another opinion I'm afraid you will have go further afield. You also need to be aware that this is not a recognised or well-documented problem in guinea pigs....although it might be more common than we are currently aware of......so your choice of vets willing and able to take on this type of case given the complexities and small size of the guinea pig urino-genital system is limited.

The nearest available vet I would recommend is Rob Reynolds/Melissa Nollet at Seers Croft in Horsham...they are my own exotics vets and have been very good at dealing with unusual cases with my own guinea pigs. They may however want to perform their own diagnostics which would include maybe an ultrasound, further endoscopy and maybe a biopsy to confirm and be warned they are not cheapest! You also have to weigh up that they may come to the same conclusion/recommendation as your current vet. If it were me, I would also like to find out whether there is a likelihood that the urethra is involved...and if so whether it is the main cause of the pain...and if the topical treatment would also address any problems with the urethra.


You have my sympathy as it's not an easy decision to make...and it could be a very expensive one......but I do understand totally why you want to seek a further opinion.
If you feel that the current vet would not take kindly to a second opinion...perhaps you could go back to the other vet who I believe is always willing to seek further advice and ask them to contact Richard Saunders.....and also a few other vets who may be able to offer some insight which include John Chitty in Andover, Lance Jepson at St James in Neath, Wales and maybe someone from the Royal Dik School in Edinburgh. This at least would be a cheaper option than another round of investigations with a third vet and may help to assist you in whether to go forwards with the topical treatment.

I hope this helps - I'm happy to talk this through with you on the phone if you want to PM me your number.
x
Click to expand...

Hi Pebble
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I would like to speak to you further about this but can't seem to find how to PM you? Perhaps you could PM me your number and I'll give you a bell.
 
PiggiePenthouse said:
Hi Pebble
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I would like to speak to you further about this but can't seem to find how to PM you? Perhaps you could PM me your number and I'll give you a bell.
Click to expand...

Have sent you an email via the forum
x
 
@Piggiepenthouse I have just changed your permissions you can now pm Pebble and vice versa :)
 
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