Help! Millie and Dodger seem to have fallen out!

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Hello

I'm just looking for some advice. I've had Dodger for about a month and him and Millie have gotten on brilliantly. Unfortunately I've been quite poorly and we all had to move to my parents for a couple of weeks while I recovered.

We moved back home on Saturday and everything seemed fine until Sunday night. Millie has been chasing Dodger and sidles up to him side on then they both chatter their teeth at each other. This morning they won't go near each other without the chattering and Millie makes a high pitched, fast squeaking noise.

I contacted the rescue who told me to remove the ramp to the loft and just have a couple of open hidies. I've done this but they just avoiding each other and any time one moves near the other it all kicks off again.

Is their bond salvageable? Does anyone have any advice? The rescue suggested it could be that Millie is in heat and combined with the stress of moving in has caused some upset.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello

I'm just looking for some advice. I've had Dodger for about a month and him and Millie have gotten on brilliantly. Unfortunately I've been quite poorly and we all had to move to my parents for a couple of weeks while I recovered.

We moved back home on Saturday and everything seemed fine until Sunday night. Millie has been chasing Dodger and sidles up to him side on then they both chatter their teeth at each other. This morning they won't go near each other without the chattering and Millie makes a high pitched, fast squeaking noise.

I contacted the rescue who told me to remove the ramp to the loft and just have a couple of open hidies. I've done this but they just avoiding each other and any time one moves near the other it all kicks off again.

Is their bond salvageable? Does anyone have any advice? The rescue suggested it could be that Millie is in heat and combined with the stress of moving in has caused some upset.

Hi!

It sounds like something serious has happened and not like Millie is in season. Give them a day or two time out with a divider for tempers to cool down and then try a formal intro on neutral ground to see whether they still get on or not; you should see pretty quickly whether they can work past telling each other that they didn't enjoy what has happened or whether they are no longer willing to be friends.
This is the best way of working out whether a bond is still functional or not. Fall-outs in bonded mixed gender adults are rare but they can happen. Change of surroundings can trigger a new hierarchy sort-out and bring underlying rifts to the fore or can cause in rescue piggies old traumas to briefly resurface.
What you cannot to is heal a broken bond.

Please follow the practical advice in these guide links here.
Bonds In Trouble
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

All the best!

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Hi!

It sounds like something serious has happened and not like Millie is in season. Give them a day or two time out with a divider for tempers to cool down and then try a formal intro on neutral ground to see whether they still get on or not; you should see pretty quickly whether they can work past telling each other that they didn't enjoy what has happened or whether they are no longer willing to be friends.
This is the best way of working out whether a bond is still functional or not. Fall-outs in bonded mixed gender adults are rare but they can happen. Change of surroundings can trigger a new hierarchy sort-out and bring underlying rifts to the fore or can cause in rescue piggies old traumas to briefly resurface.
What you cannot to is heal a broken bond.

Please follow the practical advice in these guide links here.
Bonds In Trouble
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

All the best!

I've just caught them both eating from the same pile of hay so wondering if things have calmed down. Dodger is doing his happy rumble/squeak so I don't know what's going on. I was reading the bonding guides and it says the first few season after a bond can be dramatic. They've only been together a month. Could it be that?

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

I should also have mentioned that this starts with Dodger rumbling at Millie she does soft, rapid squeaks at him then chases him off. He then starts chattering and running away. That's why I thought it may be a strong season if he's trying to initiate something and she isn't interested.

 

[Wiebke]

I should also have mentioned that this starts with Dodger rumbling at Millie she does soft, rapid squeaks at him then chases him off. He then starts chattering and running away. That's why I thought it may be a strong season if he's trying to initiate something and she isn't interested.

No, that is not seasonal behaviour; that is dominance with Millie being initially submissive but then having a limit which Dodger will have to learn to accept. Submissive sows will accept mounting initially as a sign of their submissive acceptance of a boar but otherwise they will keep him off until they are ready to mate.
It is good that they are making up again. Dodger has likely been pushing things a bit too far with mounting her.

I am seeing similar with my newly bonded trio at the moment. There may be the milder teeth chattering but Cai has to accept that being boss boar doesn't give him anytime mounting rights with his two new adult ladies unless they are in season. It is normal for the post-bonding dominance phase, especially when a boar comes out on top in the bond. Mine have been bonded only for 3 days after all.

Sows have a very specific whine when they are coming into season. Millie may be coming closer to a season but she is not quite there. Or Dodger is experiencing a teenage hormone spike.
You can see for yourself how a strong season (which you are likely bound to get one point) sounds and looks like: When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

No, that is not seasonal behaviour; that is dominance with Millie being initially submissive but then having a limit which Dodger will have to learn to accept. Submissive sows will accept mounting initially as a sign of their submissive acceptance of a boar but otherwise they will keep him off until they are ready to mate.
It is good that they are making up again. Dodger has likely been pushing things a bit too far with mounting her.

I am seeing similar with my newly bonded trio at the moment. There may be the milder teeth chattering but Cai has to accept that being boss boar doesn't give him anytime mounting rights with his two new adult ladies unless they are in season. It is normal for the post-bonding dominance phase, especially when a boar comes out on top in the bond. Mine have been bonded only for 3 days after all.

Sows have a very specific whine when they are coming into season. Millie may be coming closer to a season but she is not quite there. Or Dodger is experiencing a teenage hormone spike.
You can see for yourself how a strong season (which you are likely bound to get one point) sounds and looks like: When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)

They do seem to have calmed down again now. They're near each other again with no aggression. Should I leave them together and just keep an eye on them? They're both eating and drinking and don't seem too stressed.

 

[Wiebke]

They do seem to have calmed down again now. They're near each other again with no aggression. Should I leave them together and just keep an eye on them? They're both eating and drinking and don't seem too stressed.

Leave them together in this case. Remove any hideys and corners with just one exit.

I can only ever judge on what you are reporting; that is why my first post gives you the instruments on how to assess whether a bond is still functional or not yourself.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Leave them together in this case. Remove any hideys and corners with just one exit.

I can only ever judge on what you are reporting; that is why my first post gives you the instruments on how to assess whether a bond is still functional or not yourself.

They're only in a 4x2 so if I put in a divider they'll only be left with 2x2 each. If I separate them the only option I have is to return Dodger to the rescue. I already have two other girls also in a 4x2 so don't have room for them to live separately. They were doing so well together. I don't know what happened to make them fall out!

 

[Wiebke]

They're only in a 4x2 so if I put in a divider they'll only be left with 2x2 each. If I separate them the only option I have is to return Dodger to the rescue. I already have two other girls also in a 4x2 so don't have room for them to live separately. They were doing so well together. I don't know what happened to make them fall out!

Any assessment separation is short term, so a divider is perfectly OK. If the bond were really dysfunctional (which yours clearly isn't when they are happy to eat together and are back on speaking terms), then you would have to find any different options.

Piggies are a lot like people; it may be that Dodger is currently experiencing one the of the sudden strong testosterone spikes that are common in teenagers and can occasionally happen to younger adults, too - including neutered boars. The oldest husboar of mine was about 3 years old when it happened to him. The spike should die down within a day or two and things should settle again.

Please accept that I can only guess and that I know as little as you what has triggered it as neither of us as there and did see it.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Any assessment separation is short term, so a divider is perfectly OK. If the bond were really dysfunctional (which yours clearly isn't when they are happy to eat together and are back on speaking terms), then you would have to find any different options.

Piggies are a lot like people; it may be that Dodger is currently experiencing one the of the sudden strong testosterone spikes that are common in teenagers and can occasionally happen to younger adults, too - including neutered boars. The oldest husboar of mine was about 3 years old when it happened to him. The spike should die down within a day or two and things should settle again.

Please accept that I can only guess and that I know as little as you what has triggered it as neither of us as there and did see it.

Thanks @Wiebke. I'll keep an eye on them and see how it goes. They do seem to be trying to make up then losing their nerve and running away from each other.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

I managed to catch this interaction earlier. Millie is hiding in the hay making the squeaking noise. Dodger had a little rumble but it seems like his usual "sexy rumble" rather than an aggressive one. I've never posted a video on here before so hope it works.

They actually seem OK at the moment. They're both munching from the same hay pile.