Help! Why Is This Happening Again?

Louise's Zoo

Louise's Zoo

Adult Guinea Pig
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Sorry for the long post but I think it's best to add a quick re-cap. I originally had 3 sows. One was pregnant (unknown to me) and I had to split mum and babies from the other 2 sows. Once the babies were weaned I tried a few times to re-bond them all but my dominant sow Edna and the babies mum Eva just would not get on and I had to permanently split them due to full on fighting.

This left me with 2 groups. Eva and her 2 daughters and Edna and Eva's older daughter, Eileen. Edna and Eileen got on well. They have been together for 3 months with no problems. Until today.

About a hour ago I heard a crashing noise from the piggy room. I ran in to see Edna and Eileen fighting. I tried to split them but had bare hands so couldn't get to them properly. Edna kept chasing Eileen, teeth chattering very loud like when her and Eva fought. Every time she got to Eileen she would bite and attack her. I managed to grab a soft tunnel and just grab Eileen. She was very upset, squealing, heavy breathing and whimpering. There were tufts of her fur all over the cage and Edna was still pacing the cage, teeth chattering.

I checked Eileen over and thankfully I can't see any bite marks. I also checked Edna who was fine. After 10 mins I put Eileen back in the cage with Edna but kept watch. Edna straight away started teeth chattering and chased her.

I then decided to divide the cage with a couple of C&C grids and just let them have their own space to calm down. 30 mins later Edna was still pacing her half and teeth chattering and bar chewing. Eileen was calm and eating hay. I then covered the divider with a fleece so they can't see each other and Edna has finally calmed down.

What an earth is going on? Am I doing something wrong? I thought boars were meant to be more unstable but my sows are just a nightmare! I feel so fed up with this. :(
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Sorry for the long post but I think it's best to add a quick re-cap. I originally had 3 sows. One was pregnant (unknown to me) and I had to split mum and babies from the other 2 sows. Once the babies were weaned I tried a few times to re-bond them all but my dominant sow Edna and the babies mum Eva just would not get on and I had to permanently split them due to full on fighting.

This left me with 2 groups. Eva and her 2 daughters and Edna and Eva's older daughter, Eileen. Edna and Eileen got on well. They have been together for 3 months with no problems. Until today.

About a hour ago I heard a crashing noise from the piggy room. I ran in to see Edna and Eileen fighting. I tried to split them but had bare hands so couldn't get to them properly. Edna kept chasing Eileen, teeth chattering very loud like when her and Eva fought. Every time she got to Eileen she would bite and attack her. I managed to grab a soft tunnel and just grab Eileen. She was very upset, squealing, heavy breathing and whimpering. There were tufts of her fur all over the cage and Edna was still pacing the cage, teeth chattering.

I checked Eileen over and thankfully I can't see any bite marks. I also checked Edna who was fine. After 10 mins I put Eileen back in the cage with Edna but kept watch. Edna straight away started teeth chattering and chased her.

I then decided to divide the cage with a couple of C&C grids and just let them have their own space to calm down. 30 mins later Edna was still pacing her half and teeth chattering and bar chewing. Eileen was calm and eating hay. I then covered the divider with a fleece so they can't see each other and Edna has finally calmed down.

What an earth is going on? Am I doing something wrong? I thought boars were meant to be more unstable but my sows are just a nightmare! I feel so fed up with this. :(
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I’m so sorry that this is happening again to you! Can’t imagine what could have set them off unless a rise in hormones. You have a great set up and lots of room so it’s not as if theyshould feel in each other’s way.
Sounds as if another divider is the only way. x
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Sorry for the long post but I think it's best to add a quick re-cap. I originally had 3 sows. One was pregnant (unknown to me) and I had to split mum and babies from the other 2 sows. Once the babies were weaned I tried a few times to re-bond them all but my dominant sow Edna and the babies mum Eva just would not get on and I had to permanently split them due to full on fighting.

This left me with 2 groups. Eva and her 2 daughters and Edna and Eva's older daughter, Eileen. Edna and Eileen got on well. They have been together for 3 months with no problems. Until today.

About a hour ago I heard a crashing noise from the piggy room. I ran in to see Edna and Eileen fighting. I tried to split them but had bare hands so couldn't get to them properly. Edna kept chasing Eileen, teeth chattering very loud like when her and Eva fought. Every time she got to Eileen she would bite and attack her. I managed to grab a soft tunnel and just grab Eileen. She was very upset, squealing, heavy breathing and whimpering. There were tufts of her fur all over the cage and Edna was still pacing the cage, teeth chattering.

I checked Eileen over and thankfully I can't see any bite marks. I also checked Edna who was fine. After 10 mins I put Eileen back in the cage with Edna but kept watch. Edna straight away started teeth chattering and chased her.

I then decided to divide the cage with a couple of C&C grids and just let them have their own space to calm down. 30 mins later Edna was still pacing her half and teeth chattering and bar chewing. Eileen was calm and eating hay. I then covered the divider with a fleece so they can't see each other and Edna has finally calmed down.

What an earth is going on? Am I doing something wrong? I thought boars were meant to be more unstable but my sows are just a nightmare! I feel so fed up with this. :(
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I am very sorry, but you seem to have got a very traumatised lot of sows with real issues. :(

Please do not reunite Eileen and Edna after this experience. If it is as bad as that, it means that Edna has decided that Eileen is not part of her group and will no longer tolerate her. :(

Please have Enda checked for ovarian cysts; it is often the small growing ones that cause aggressive behaviour.
HUGS!
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Sorry for the long post but I think it's best to add a quick re-cap. I originally had 3 sows. One was pregnant (unknown to me) and I had to split mum and babies from the other 2 sows. Once the babies were weaned I tried a few times to re-bond them all but my dominant sow Edna and the babies mum Eva just would not get on and I had to permanently split them due to full on fighting.

This left me with 2 groups. Eva and her 2 daughters and Edna and Eva's older daughter, Eileen. Edna and Eileen got on well. They have been together for 3 months with no problems. Until today.

About a hour ago I heard a crashing noise from the piggy room. I ran in to see Edna and Eileen fighting. I tried to split them but had bare hands so couldn't get to them properly. Edna kept chasing Eileen, teeth chattering very loud like when her and Eva fought. Every time she got to Eileen she would bite and attack her. I managed to grab a soft tunnel and just grab Eileen. She was very upset, squealing, heavy breathing and whimpering. There were tufts of her fur all over the cage and Edna was still pacing the cage, teeth chattering.

I checked Eileen over and thankfully I can't see any bite marks. I also checked Edna who was fine. After 10 mins I put Eileen back in the cage with Edna but kept watch. Edna straight away started teeth chattering and chased her.

I then decided to divide the cage with a couple of C&C grids and just let them have their own space to calm down. 30 mins later Edna was still pacing her half and teeth chattering and bar chewing. Eileen was calm and eating hay. I then covered the divider with a fleece so they can't see each other and Edna has finally calmed down.

Oh no! Not again. That's such a shame. Once the dust has settled could you try Eileen back with her mum's group, so that you still just have the two cages? I know you just said you were picking up another two. Is it girls?

What an earth is going on? Am I doing something wrong? I thought boars were meant to be more unstable but my sows are just a nightmare! I feel so fed up with this. :(
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Oh poop. So Edna will end up on her own for now. Is this going to be ok?

I have an empty 5x2 here that I was going to use for 2 new sows this week. I'm wondering if I should now postpone getting them until I can sort this out or maybe still get them and see if I can bond Eileen with them. I could try Eileen back with her mum and younger siblings which i think would be fine. Just don't know what's best :(
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Oh poop. So Edna will end up on her own for now. Is this going to be ok?

I have an empty 5x2 here that I was going to use for 2 new sows this week. I'm wondering if I should now postpone getting them until I can sort this out or maybe still get them and see if I can bond Eileen with them. I could try Eileen back with her mum and younger siblings which i think would be fine. Just don't know what's best :(
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Why not try her with the new sows? Are they youngsters or similar age?
 
Janice C said:
Why not try her with the new sows? Are they youngsters or similar age?
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Edna? I will get her checked first at the vet as I'm really nervous now about putting her with another guinea pig. I don't know what would have happened to Eileen had I not been home earlier to intervene. She's a big girl now, over 1200g and I think she could really do some damage!
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Edna? I will get her checked first at the vet as I'm really nervous now about putting her with another guinea pig. I don't know what would have happened to Eileen had I not been home earlier to intervene. She's a big girl now, over 1200g and I think she could really do some damage!
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Is she very dominant with all the piggies or is it just poor Eileen?
 
Sending hugs your way! :hug:@Eileen's Mum you certainly haven't had it easy! I am just dreading the day my lot fall out so far Velvet (aka THE BOSS) is still keeping order but with 2 boars living with 3 sows I think I'm living on borrowed time! If they do fall out I know how I'll split them though. Which is the reason I have a 2 storey hutch!
 
Thanks guys.

After having to rush one of my cats to the vets this morning, I finally had time this afternoon to see if Eileen could go back with her mum and younger sisters.

Nope. Eva did her usual and started the crazy loud teeth chattering before lunging at her. This then caused Eden to start chattering her teeth and displaying similar behaviour. I decided to remove Eileen.

My last idea is to try Eileen with Ellie who is the most submissive of Eva's trio and the only one who didn't start on Eileen during the brief meeting earlier. But, is it fair to split a happy trio to put one with Eileen (that's assuming it works)? @Wiebke

Poor Eileen has ended up on her own through no fault of her own and it's heartbreaking. I'm really unsure about taking on the 2 new sows because if I have more fallouts, I am going to run out of room. Thankfully, right now I have enough set ups for 3 groups but I have now ended up with a trio and 2 single sows!

I feel so fed up with this. All I wanted was a happy trio and then the babies came along and it all went wrong :(
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Thanks guys.

After having to rush one of my cats to the vets this morning, I finally had time this afternoon to see if Eileen could go back with her mum and younger sisters.

Nope. Eva did her usual and started the crazy loud teeth chattering before lunging at her. This then caused Eden to start chattering her teeth and displaying similar behaviour. I decided to remove Eileen.

My last idea is to try Eileen with Ellie who is the most submissive of Eva's trio and the only one who didn't start on Eileen during the brief meeting earlier. But, is it fair to split a happy trio to put one with Eileen (that's assuming it works)? @Wiebke

Poor Eileen has ended up on her own through no fault of her own and it's heartbreaking. I'm really unsure about taking on the 2 new sows because if I have more fallouts, I am going to run out of room. Thankfully, right now I have enough set ups for 3 groups but I have now ended up with a trio and 2 single sows!

I feel so fed up with this. All I wanted was a happy trio and then the babies came along and it all went wrong :(
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It is worth trying Eileen with Ellie and see how that goes; it will mean a climb in status for Ellie. The previous bond won't break that quickly, so if it fails, Ellie can always go back to her previous group.

I have solved some problems with my own piggies that way. I usually give the ones that I have taken out of a group the chance to walk up to the old cage once the new bond has settled down after 3-4 days. If a piggy just says hello and then scampers off, it means that it is happy in its new bond; if they want to be back with their old mates, they will desperately try to get in with their friends and gnaw the grids.

Start the bonding by keeping Ellie and Eileen in a split bonding pen overnight, so they can start bonding and making friends with each other through the bars well away from the others.
 
Wiebke said:
It is worth trying Eileen with Ellie and see how that goes; it will mean a climb in status for Ellie. The previous bond won't break that quickly, so if it fails, Ellie can always go back to her previous group.

I have solved some problems with my own piggies that way. I usually give the ones that I have taken out of a group the chance to walk up to the old cage once the new bond has settled down after 3-4 days. If a piggy just says hello and then scampers off, it is means that it is happy in its new bond; if they want to be back with their old mates, they will desperately try to get back and gnaw the grids.

Start the bonding by keeping Ellie and Eileen in a split bonding pen overnight, so they can start bonding and makind friends with each other through the bars well away from the others.
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Brilliant. I will give that a try. Thank you :)

Fingers crossed!
 
I've got everything crossed this works out for you, you really have been through the mill with your piggys. Sending you hugs.
 
Sending you a hug x
 
I don't think it's going to work.

@Wiebke I put them side by side in the run and the plan was to leave them in it tonight and remove the partition tomorrow but within 5 mins they started teeth chattering and lunging through the bars. I left them longer, still watching and the teeth chattering turned to squeaks and it was looking better. I got my phone out to film a few seconds so i could ask for advice and they started showing aggressive signs towards each other again. I have posted the videos below. Is this pairing doomed or with time could they settle?

So things look ok here..

Here?

Um?
 
Give them a few days to calm down. Ellie has taken on the hostility of the others. You have to wait and see whether they can work past it or not.

Never try a new bonding very soon after a failed one when emotions are still running hight. Always give at least some days to calm down again.

Eileen is also very wary after her past experiences.
 
Had to clean out the cages today and now I have 3 groups it's a pain in the bum as my spare areas for putting them while I sort the cages are now in use.

Had to put some of them in the pen but decided to put Eileen in first so it didn't smell of other piggies and freak her out. The divider was still up so I popped Ellie in the other half for 20 mins while I sorted Eileen's cage. The 2 of them were still attacking each other through the bars :(

I will try again Friday but can't see this being a success.

I'm no longer collecting 2 girls today. It would be silly to add another group or try to bond more piggies when this is all going on, plus I really don't have room now.

Feeling very fed up about it all now. I have a trio and 2 loan females. How is that any good? Just pointless :(
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Had to clean out the cages today and now I have 3 groups it's a pain in the bum as my spare areas for putting them while I sort the cages are now in use.

Had to put some of them in the pen but decided to put Eileen in first so it didn't smell of other piggies and freak her out. The divider was still up so I popped Ellie in the other half for 20 mins while I sorted Eileen's cage. The 2 of them were still attacking each other through the bars :(

I will try again Friday but can't see this being a success.

I'm no longer collecting 2 girls today. It would be silly to add another group or try to bond more piggies when this is all going on, plus I really don't have room now.

Feeling very fed up about it all now. I have a trio and 2 loan females. How is that any good? Just pointless :(
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I am very sorry. Piggies can be such a pain. I've been there at the beginning of this year with four single sows and no joy (I've still got two - one of the four has sadly died and one has eventually after half a year bonded with her sister and her sister's "toy boy"; third time lucky).
There should be at least a couple of good rescues within your reach that may have neutered boars and that offer dating at the rescues. Guinea Pig Rescue Centre Locator


For some reason your other girls seem to have a firm dislike of Eileen. Once sows have made up their minds, they unfortunately rarely change. if the reaction is so strong, I would personally not persist, as upsetting as it is for you and has been for me in comparable situations.

Perhaps you could try to find a neutered rescue boar that you can date with Eileen at the rescue - he should adore her?
 
I am so sorry that you are having these bonding issues. How heart breaking.

Eileen is such a sweetie. Hooefully you will be able to find her a lovely neutered boar.
 
Sending you big hugs. Piggy's bring us much joy most of the time, but sometimes you can't do right for doing wrong and it's so dispiriting. Hope things get better for you and your piggy's soon.
 
If you managed to bond Eileen with a neutered boar and Edna with another, you would basically have what you were aiming for - two more piggies, and everyone happy and in a group. No more cages either. Worth a try?
 
Thank you everyone. I think I will take Wiebke's advice and not bother trying to re-introduce Eileen and Ellie.

The idea of bonding the single sows with neutered boars did occur to me but in all honesty, I really didn't want to own any boars... that was why I had arranged to take on 2 more sows.

At the moment both girls seem fine living on their own. I think Edna may have been on her own before I got her (apart from being paired with a male to get pregnant a few times a year!) but it's Eileen I feel for as she's never been on her own till now.

I don't want to do something I'm not really happy to do but also I don't want unhappy guinea pigs :(
 
You are doing a great job @Eileen's Mum and have handled a difficult situation really well.
All of your piggies are lucky to be with you and have a great life.
I know it is frustrating when things don't work out, but I have also found that time adds a lot of perspective (for me anyway).
I think you are doing the right thing by not bringing more piggies home.
By waiting a while you may find you come across the perfect solution without even trying. Maybe the right pig for you will pop up further down the line.
And I would say that boars (neutered obviously) are highly entertaining to own, and do seem to add a certain level of stability to bickering females.
So maybe there is a boy out there somewhere that is right for your girls?
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Thank you everyone. I think I will take Wiebke's advice and not bother trying to re-introduce Eileen and Ellie.

The idea of bonding the single sows with neutered boars did occur to me but in all honesty, I really didn't want to own any boars... that was why I had arranged to take on 2 more sows.

At the moment both girls seem fine living on their own. I think Edna may have been on her own before I got her (apart from being paired with a male to get pregnant a few times a year!) but it's Eileen I feel for as she's never been on her own till now.

I don't want to do something I'm not really happy to do but also I don't want unhappy guinea pigs :(
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You're probably right to take some time to let the dust settle and see how you feel then. You're like me in reverse -I can't see past boars.
 
It's such a frustrating situation. I just had this dream of all my girls living together in a huge C&C and not only is that not ever going to happen, my 2 groups have now become 3. The whole reason I rehomed Emmett was because I didn't want a third cage. If I had known this was going to happen I may as well have kept him, neutered him and put him with Eileen.

I was thinking it all through last night and even thought about rehoming Edna... but soon decided I can't do that. I love her to bits. I love them all.

The other issue I now have is that my setup isn't going to work the way I have it, split into the 3 groups long term so it looks like the C&C is going to be rearranged again! Argh!
 
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