Help with my new low calcium diet

BlueBird

BlueBird

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi guys,

So today I got my pig Bonnie back from the vets after a bladder stone op. Fingers crossed all has gone well but the vet has asked about my diet for our pigs. All things considered I think we fees them as balanced a diet we can without breaking the bank or having to spend a fortune in money and time.

We haven't got a car and live in the city centre so we are reliant on the shops we have nearby to keep us and our pigs fed. Sadly this means reliance on tesco metro and equivalent shops. So I cant get hold of the exact recommended feeding diet that's on this website. While using online shopping for supermarkets is an option every fortnight when I can do a big shop for me and the hubby I can't be solely reliant on this. Its a £30 min order and fresh food only generally lasts 3-4days. And there are no big supermarkets in the city centre. Similarly I don't want to be reliant too much on websites as couriers find it really difficult to find this place. It often causes stress of chasing couriers down, taking time off work to sit in for a delivery only for them not to turn up and say 'we weren't in. Please go to your nearest depot' which is over an hr round trip on public transport. I've tried it. The stress isn't worth it but if I must use these I will.

So below is a list of the stuff I can get regularly. Could you lovely people suggest which parts I absolutely have to swap, which ones can be the occasional "treat" and which ones I can rely on for daily feed for a pig with urinary issues. Note: I don't feed all of the below daily. This is just a crude list of what I can get hold of easily.

Veggies
Gem lettuce
Salad bags
Curly kale
Spinach
Carrots
Sugarsnaps/green beans
Cucumber
Red pepper (occasionally the 3 pepper bags but its pot luck which colours though reds and yellows are more common)
Various herb bags
Brussels sprout (season dependent)
Sweet heart cabbage (harder to get in summer though not a complete nightmare).
Bok choi (if I walk to the far away shop)
Tomatoes
Broccoli (mainly tender stem)
Various soft fruits
I may be able to get others but they are a seasonal addition and not available year round.

Pellets
We currently rotate between science selective and burgess excel. We will switch to science selective grain free for the better calcium levels

Hay
Vet told us to switch to Timothy hay. The hay we feed is actually and I quote from the packet "meadow hay with Timothy". I notice the hay guide hasn't got a huge difference in calcium to Timothy and since this hay has some in it anyway is it worth swapping? I'm really happy with this brand. Its grown local and is really good quality, excellent price and not a nightmare to get hold of. :(
 
Edit: can also get sweet potato and celery. But I'm not sure whether sweet potato is poisonous or not and celery always seemed to give my pigs cloudy wee which I assumed was caused by high calcium content in the celery.
 
My piggies have both have both had bladder problems, we follow the diet for piggies with bladder issues which is on here. Mine each get this daily
2 slices of red or yellow pepper
1 green been
About 2 inches of celery
A slice of cucumber
They would get spring greens but often can’t find it.
I have cut out all lettuce and root veg as these can be triggers for piggies with bladder issues, but are not necessarily high in calcium. I think this is more for those those prone to cystitis though and not for stones.

They were fed solely on kale and spinach by their previous owner but as these are both high in calcium we have stopped them.

They have science selective grain free nuggets and Timothy hay in their hay rack and meadow hay as bedding (which they also eat).

You could also filter their water if you live in a hard water area.

This is just what we do but having followed the diet guide on the forum we seem to have things under control.
 
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but 1 tablespoon of pellets per pig per day, and I myself, believe scatter feeding stops one pig from hogging a bowl too much.

Filtered water and a controlled amount of nuggets is the best start to make, also, run veg under the tap and feed it wet ( doesn't need to be filtered with this)
 
Section 4 of the guide below can offer advice about diet for bladder piggies.

Piggies get a lot of calcium from pellets and drinking - ensuring pellets are kept limited (and I note you are switching to ss grain free which is good) and filtering drinking water definitely will help with less calcium.

The calcium process is complex and any changes to the diet do not have an effect immediately.

I’d definitely reduce the kale and spinach right down - they are high in calcium.

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
 
I had a piggy with blood in urine and was found to be high calcium. I wouldn't feed kale or spinach even weekly. Mine get romaine/gem lettuce, celery, cucumber, gteen pepper, green beans, sometimes spring greens, coriander.
As mine aren't good at drinking and drinking helps flush out bladders I wash all their veg and so they get it still very wet. I use filtered water for this because have extremely hard water in my area.
I also do a mix of meadow and Timothy hay and don't worry about that as much as the other things. I also give cystease cat bladder capsules which if you search on the site you'll find mentioned by those more experienced than me. I sprinkle a capsule on their food daily. They eat it fine.
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but 1 tablespoon of pellets per pig per day, and I myself, believe scatter feeding stops one pig from hogging a bowl too much.

Filtered water and a controlled amount of nuggets is the best start to make, also, run veg under the tap and feed it wet ( doesn't need to be filtered with this)
Click to expand...
I believed that feeding with wet vegetables can cause piglet swelling problems
 
Billy94 said:
I believed that feeding with wet vegetables can cause piglet swelling problems
Click to expand...

I think you may mean bloating. Some vegetables themselves can cause issues with bloating - members of the brassica family for example. Vegetables contain a lot of water anyway, so feeding them still damp from washing them i can’t see is going to do any harm.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I think you may mean bloating. Some vegetables themselves can cause issues with bloating - members of the brassica family for example. Vegetables contain a lot of water anyway, so feeding them still damp from washing them i can’t see is going to do any harm.
Click to expand...
Yes, I meant bloating. Thanks for the reply
 
I would say that cucumber, peppers, and some sort of mixed salad leaves or lettuce, cover the daily essentially- these are things I feed almost daily and make sure we never run out of!
Cabbage, sprouts and broccoli can and probably should be taken out of the diet straight away, also spinach and kale, if you are aiming for low calcium.
Herbs are good for vit C, coriander is a firm favourite with most piggies and can be safely fed several times a week, and has lower calcium than dill or parsley.
But as others have mentioned, restricting the amount of pellets and feeding the grain free ones, and filtering your water, will make the most difference to the calcium in the diet!
 
Great advice above. I’d really recommend Cystease too as @Black piggies has said, I found it really good with my bladder piggy Rupert after his first bladder stone and emergency op. Hope Bonnie recovers well x
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
Is coriandor not safe everyday? I've been feeding daily
Click to expand...
Yes I believe it is, but its not essential everyday if you run out or the local shop doesnt have any in stock! We usually buy a giant bunch of coriander every saturday and it starts looking a bit withered by tuesday so I eat the rest myself then the piggies wait until next weekend and have some different leaves that keep fresh longer :)
I was more trying to reassure the OP that if you run out of herbs then piggies are fine without them some days. Although the piggies may disagree of course! :)
 
PigglePuggle said:
Yes I believe it is, but its not essential everyday if you run out or the local shop doesnt have any in stock! We usually buy a giant bunch of coriander every saturday and it starts looking a bit withered by tuesday so I eat the rest myself then the piggies wait until next weekend and have some different leaves that keep fresh longer :)
I was more trying to reassure the OP that if you run out of herbs then piggies are fine without them some days. Although the piggies may disagree of course! :)
Click to expand...
I mean its great to feed a nice varied diet through the week and we do ourselves, but today Thursday I have exactly 2 peppers, 1 cucumber, 1 little gem lettuce and 1 carrot left in the fridge and I am fairly sure my piggies will survive quite well on that until Saturday morning when we next go shopping and buy all the varied luxury items!
We're all complete snobs on here me included about showing off our posh diets and that's very aspirational and lovely to see, but lets be honest, some days we're busy at work and cant get to the shops and its a slice of cucumber, a slice of pepper, and a lettuce leaf each and the piggies are fine :)
 
PigglePuggle said:
Yes I believe it is, but its not essential everyday if you run out or the local shop doesnt have any in stock! We usually buy a giant bunch of coriander every saturday and it starts looking a bit withered by tuesday so I eat the rest myself then the piggies wait until next weekend and have some different leaves that keep fresh longer :)
I was more trying to reassure the OP that if you run out of herbs then piggies are fine without them some days. Although the piggies may disagree of course! :)
Click to expand...
OK thanks, I started to panic haha. My pigs and rats eat it daily. 👍
 
Well according to the internet, coriander has 67mg calcium per 100g of leaves, while parsley has 120mg per 100g of leaves, spinach has 100mg and dill has 208mg!
So I would say low up to other leafy herbs and greens. I never knew dill had so much actually!
 
And kale 150mg calcium per 100g of leaves while lettuce is around 36mg depending on lettuce type :)
I hope that's helpful, and correct- there's some diet and fitness websites for hoomans with this info on!
 
51mg calcium per 100g of chard...
I will stop now but this is really interesting!
So a low to high ranking of calcium in some common leaves seems to be:
Lettuce- very low
Chard- low
Coriander- low-med
Spinach- med-high
Parsley- high
Kale- high
Dill- very high
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
Whet does coriandor come calcium wise

High or medium or low?
Click to expand...

Coriander is the herb with the least calcium content; the others are all high in calcium. Coriander/cilantro is safe to feed in small quantities on a daily basis. Any fresh herbs can still be part of a diet as long as you use them more as a healthy treat in small quantities because they are packed with trace elements, but don't feed them daily if they are high calcium. (PS: Adding leftover fresh herbs to your own diet to use them up is also good for yourself... ;) )
Even kale can still be part of your piggies' diet if you can't get greens where you are, as long as you treat it more like a treat and not as a large part of the daily diet. I like to vary calcium richer foods in my piggies' diet but try to be careful to balance this out with how much I feed of each and always serve them together with some watery veg (lettuce, celery and/or cucumber) as I have a number of piggies that don't drink much in a very hard water/high mineral area.
However, this is more something in the longer term for when you have worked out in which individual band you can keep your piggies stable without running the risk of more stones, taking local considerations like water hardness/mineral content, availability/seasonality of foods like dog pee free grass (which is actually high in vitamin C) etc. into account.
Any diet is always a compromise because of all the different nutrients you want to include, of which a wider range is always better!

You can also never look at a vegetable diet in isolation and blend out all other food groups, some of which can vary enormously locally. Your guinea pig should still eat mostly hay (about 80%), then veg (10-15%) and only very little pellets (a pellet free diet is possible if they are replaced by dry forage, which is also always higher in calcium that fresh forage).

If you want detailed diet advice for bladder stone piggies, then our diet guide contains a chapter on special diets, including for guinea pigs with bladder stones and other urinary tract problems. You may find it very helpful to use as a point to start with.
The guide is looking at all food groups: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Initially you want to stick to the diet recommendations more closely and not necessary experiment in order to work out any excess and get your piggy through the tricky first weeks post-op when there is a risk of another stone forming quickly again.
Here is a veg chart that you can sort for calcium content. However, don't be tempted too go too low on the calcium as that can cause serious long term health problems, too!
Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts

Keep in mind that most calcium is coming with the water (especially in a mostly hard water country like the UK) and by overfeeding on pellets (whichever brand, although there are some major differences in between them, too).
Make sure that you filter your water or, if problems continue, switch to low calcium bottled water as a less environmentally friendly/higher in microplastics alternative. And stick to 1 tablespoon of pellets per piggy per day!

PS: Leave off any root veg, any grain (including sweet corn) and use fruit as an occasional treat if possible. Greens are a milder relative to kale that is less high in calcium by the way. The greener your piggy diet is the better. Leaves and veg like cucumber and even celery contain a lot of fluid; especially if you have a guinea pig that is not a good drinker.

PS2: Please be aware that dietary changes are not a quick fix; it takes a few weeks for them to come fully through but it is vital for the long term. Depending on whether your stone has been caused by, like a diet that is too high in calcium or whether something else has gone wrong in the complex calcium absorption process (or a combination thereof), finding the right dietary balance for your piggy may take some time.

PS3: We strongly recommend to give any guinea pig with major longer term urinary tract problems a glucosamine food supplement in order to support the beleaguered natural glucosamine coating of the walls in the bladder and the urinary tract. Generally a cat food supplement like the contents of a capsule of cystease mixed with 2 ml of water each day is ideal and will help with the discomfort in the wake of a bladder stone.
 
Last thing I just noticed... science selective grain free pellets, which are a lower calcium pellet, contain 0.6% calcium- so that's 600mg of calcium per 100g of pellets! 3x or 4x more than the highest calcium veggies!
 
PigglePuggle said:
Last thing I just noticed... science selective grain free pellets, which are a lower calcium pellet, contain 0.6% calcium- so that's 600mg of calcium per 100g of pellets! 3x or 4x more than the highest calcium veggies!
Click to expand...
I'm glad bernie doesn't eat any brand of nuggets. Just Dot, one tablespoon bernie sniffs them and walks off to his bed and curls up
 
Wiebke said:
Coriander is the herb with the least calcium content; the others are all high in calcium and is safe to feed in small quantities on a daily basis/
However, you shouldn't feed a diet that is too low in calcium, either.
Any fresh herbs can still be part of a diet as long as you use them more as a healthy treat in small quantities because they are packed with trace elements. Even kale can still be part of your piggies' diet if you can't get greens where you are, as long as you treat it more like a treat and not as a large part of the daily diet. I like to vary calcium richer foods in my piggies' diet but try to be careful to balance this out with how much I feed of each.
However, this is more something in the longer term for when you have worked out in which individual band you can keep your piggies stable without running the risk of more stones, taking local considerations like water hardness/mineral content, availability/seasonality of foods like dog pee free grass (which is actually high in vitamin C) etc. into account.
Any diet is always a compromise because of all the different nutrients, of which a wider range is always better! You can also never look at a vegetable diet in isolation and blend out all other food groups, some of which can vary enormously locally. Your guinea pig should still eat mostly hay (about 80%), then veg (10-15%) and only very little pellets (a pellet free diet is possible if they are replaced by dry forage, which is also always higher in calcium that fresh forage).

If you want detailed diet advice for bladder stone piggies, then our diet guide contains a chapter on special diets, including for guinea pigs with bladder stones and other urinary tract problems. You may find it very helpful to use as a point to start with.
The guide is looking at all food groups: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Firstly, you want to to stick to the diet recommendations and not necessary experiment in order to work out any excess.
Here is a veg chart that you can sort for calcium content. However, don't be tempted too go too low on the calcium as that can cause long term problems, too!
Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts


Keep in mind that most calcium is coming with the water (especially in a mostly hard water country like the UK) and by overfeeding on pellets (whichever brand although there are some major differences).
Make sure that you filter your water or, if problems continue, switch to low calcium bottled water as a less environmentally friendly/higher in microplastics alternative. And stick to 1 tablespoon of pellets per piggy per day!

PS: Leave off any root veg and grain (including sweet corn) if possible. Greens are a milder relative to kale that is less high in calcium by the way. The greener your piggy diet is the better. Leaves and veg like cucumber and even celery contain a lot of fluid; especially if you have a guinea pig that is not a good drinker.

PS2: Please be aware that dietary changes are not a quick fix; it takes a few weeks for them to come fully through but it is vital for the long term. Depending on whether your stone has been caused by a diet that is too high in calcium or whether something else has gone wrong in the complex calcium absorption process (or a combination thereof), finding the right dietary balance for your piggy may take some time.

PS3: We strongly recommend to give any guinea pig with major longer term urinary tract problems a glucosamine food supplement in order to support the beleaguered natural glucosamine coating of the walls in the bladder and the urinary tract. Generally a cat food supplement like the contents of a capsule of cystease mixed with 2 ml of water each day is ideal and will help with the discomfort in the wake of a bladder stone.
Click to expand...
I'm already following alot of this, filtered water, 1 tablespoon of nuggets per pig, and a few more bits for a while now. I lost an old boar to 3 bladder stones in one go, and the fear has neve really left me since. I think it had something to to with when me moved house, and it's a hard water area, I didn't know to filter then, I wasn't on the forum. I'm using teas feeding thread aswell
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
Thanks for the replies
Click to expand...
Its been interesting looking this info up, I'm sure the issue of bladder stones is very complex and there are lots of other factors going on as well as diet, but I think a good general take home message is that we should all be very careful with the amount of pellets!
 
Yeah I went a bit mad with my reading of calcium and veg when Rupert was going through his issues with bladder stones and UTIs. But I’d never fed much in the way of kale/spinach, broccoli was one that I did feed probably a bit too often - maybe two or three times a week and I didn’t filter water. I give bottled water now (really hard water here in the midlands) and I’m still pretty strict with high calcium herbs and kale and spinach etc even though he was the only pig I had issues with. Better safe than sorry I think!

I didn’t really give my ratties herbs @SkyPipDotBernie, they used to sniff at stuff and just leave it so after six months I gave up!
 
Oh and started with grainless pellets, although they don’t get many, only a few in the morning sprinkled in their hay to rummage around in. They have a few oats in the evening these days.
 
alpacasqueak said:
Oh and started with grainless pellets, although they don’t get many, only a few in the morning sprinkled in their hay to rummage around in. They have a few oats in the evening these days.
Click to expand...
Bernies been off his nuggets for about 3 months now and he's fine, as far as I am aware. First pig who won't eat them. Fair enough though
 
Wow what a thread I started. Thanks everyone for the replies.

Just to confirm I had read that long term balanced feeding guide that many people have linked. My problem in particular is that we would struggle to get any spring greens and lettuce was recommended to be left out. This meant that my guineas wouldn't be able to have leaves of any kind on a regular basis which left my thinking. What the hell do I feed my pigs?!

Luckily we already have a water filter for ourselves. As it's nice having cold water in the colder months so that's an easy swap.

The vet on the checkup today has also today me to get oxbox Timothy hay shes the small animals specialist at the practice and has said that one several conferences oxbow Timothy has been tested to be the lowest calsium hay brand. Disappointing as I've got loads of my old hay left. :/

Wiebke said:
PS3: We strongly recommend to give any guinea pig with major longer term urinary tract problems a glucosamine food supplement in order to support the beleaguered natural glucosamine coating of the walls in the bladder and the urinary tract. Generally a cat food supplement like the contents of a capsule of cystease mixed with 2 ml of water each day is ideal and will help with the discomfort in the wake of a bladder stone.
Click to expand...
I think my vet mentioned this. She's asked me to get some kids vit c drops to support bladder walls recover. She's told me to syringe neat with all her other meds.
 
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