:( Help!

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katiepig

katiepig

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I'm worried I've made a mistake. I've bought a baby sow to go with my two adult sows as the eldest one is getting on in years and I didn't want the younger one to be without a friend if she passed away. I thought a baby would integrate more easily. I introduced them on the floor and it seemed to go well, licking all over from the eldest dominant sow, not a lot of interest from #2 sow but she gave her a sniff and possible lick behind the ear once. Nothing untoward.

However now they are in the cage together #2 sow is chasing her mercilessly whenever baby comes out of hiding, it's been less than 24hrs (includes overnight) but I'm worried about when/if this will end? I haven't yet seen the baby use the water bottle and I've struggled to get any veg into her. I've put a little trough of water out but I don't know if she managed to use that in the night or not. I might put a second bottle in somewhere and maybe she'll find one of them. I did fashion her a box that I thought only she'd be able to fit into the entrances and put veg in there and I hope she got some last night I know she started the night in there but I found the eldest sow in there this morning! I really don't know how she managed to fit.

Little baby is making an effort to come out and nibble hay, it's ok if #2 sow is napping but I'm worrying a lot now.

#2 is vying for overall dominance as well, that was expected to be honest, I've seen her trying over the last few months. Do you think when the eldest two sort themselves out the baby will be left alone a bit more?

So worried :(
 
Sorry I don't know if this is a faux pas but I had to act it was horrible I was close to tears I was so worried and I couldn't concentrate on my work - I put them back in neutral territory with lots of food and #2 sow was still being awful so I called on desperate measures and gave them all a group bath which nobody enjoyed there was definitely an element of group stress winding everyone up beyond normal buuuuuuuuuut now they are all eating merrily on the floor without bullying! I don't know if this will last at all but I am happy the baby is eating some hay and a bit of lettuce so hopefully getting some fluid from that.

Can someone please give me tips on putting them back in the cage? Sadly I can't give it a full clean over because I did that yesterday and the other liner isn't washed and dry yet. But can I do anything else? Or should I wait till it is ready with a clean one? The older two have scent marked everything like mad. I will leave them on the floor all evening if that's what it takes for them to get along!

I am sat on the stairs watching them from a distance so as not to disturb them and beautiful baby is eating a lovely wet bit of cabbage now, oh my heart can rest finally! I could cry!
 
Take a deep breath! If you are going to tackle bondings you need a stern constitution. Your baby has clearly upset the hierarchy and the second sow is feeling a bit threatened. Babies are used to this and are very pragmatic but you do have to ensure that they aren't being bullied and that they can eat, drink and sleep. You have done the right thing putting them into the bonding pen again and letting things settle down. They can stay there overnight without any harm. It may be best to keep them in the bonding pen until you have a clean liner and the cage has been completely neutralised.

Here is a very useful thread about introductions.
Introducing And Re-introducing Guinea Pigs
And another about behaviour and bonding Illustrated Bonding / Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
And one about sow behaviour Sow Behaviour

How big is the cage they are going into? Is there definitely enough room for all 3? Has it been completely neutralised and all scent of the 2 older piggies removed?
Have you ensured that all hideys have at least 2 exits and no-one can get trapped? Cardboard boxes and plastic stools are best for this in the early stages of a bonding. Is there at least one of everything for each pig ie at least 3 hideys etc. Please make sure you put food and water and hay in separate places, each at least a whole piggy's length apart so that number 2 sow cannot dominate and hog all the food. Please make sure the baby has access to food, water and hay.

With sows you can attempt a bonding and then separate if necessary and then re-try again on successive occasions. It's not the same as for boars, so if needs be you could always take the baby out again and keep her in a cage/pen next to the others and then reintroduce again at floor time over a number of days until things become less heated with the second sow.

It is unlikely (but not impossible) that the baby will not be accepted. But there are some sows who are just not prepared to accept an outsider. (I am fostering a baby who has been through just such an experience so it definitely can happen). So please have plan B ready just in case.
 
Hi, thank you! *taking deep breaths!*

I've only done this once before and last time it went perfectly so I was unprepared for this, I had my rose-tinted glasses on! It's so hard to watch the little one being bullied although I know I should try not to apply human feelings, I just felt guilty I'd taken her from her home and just put her into this horrible scary situation. I will take a look through all the advice pages you linked, thank you.

Yes I have two or everything and they are on both levels of the cage (though the second water is a trough I am nipping out later to get another bottle) and hideys all have two exits. Even still it was as if #2 sow was seeking her out and as soon as the baby came out for anything she'd get up and come and scare her away, I don't think she was getting much rest, definitely wasn't eating and I hadn't seen any water usage since she went in there yesterday. Even where I'd put extra under a box only she could get in (made sure of it this time!) she seemed scared stiff being int here because #2 was always trying to get in and baby only seemed to want to eat the food in the open, silly thing!

The cage is 4x2 base with a loft, I thought it would be enough since I don't always use the loft (one week on/one week off - only had one liner) but either way the pair of them tend to pick a favourite and only use the one location for that week for the bulk of the time (either up or down), I hoped if I permanently kept the loft (made a second liner) they'd feel roomy enough for a third since they already have a choice of 4 favourite sleeping areas and one level is usually uninhabited :/

It was a fresh bed but the older two had a few hours on it before they all went in together after meeting on the floor so I guess it was not de-smelled enough. I've got the other one washing now and I'll give it all another wipe down again. They will definitely be staying on the floor until it's all ready and super clean. They are all acting like they're best friends right now :P
 
I've had my fair share of difficult bonding over the years, so know exactly what you mean about your feelings for the baby.

Is there any way you could make the base 5 x 2 and do away with the loft? When counting minimum space requirements, you ignore upper levels and count only the uninterrupted floor space. 4 x2 is a bit small for 3. Also, the ramp takes up additional floor space. I'd remove the loft, keep it all one level and as large as you can make it while it all settles down. And the likelihood is that it will settle once your under sow has clearly established her dominance over the baby.
 
Thanks so much for your advice, it might be possible to extend the cage quickly today by moving the loft tray down alongside the main tray and cutting out the correx between the two.

I separated them out overnight. Now I've put them on the floor again with a load of hay and there is still chasing a lot but also #2 might have licked the babys face - it's hard to tell if she's licking her or trying to eat food out her mouth which I know she likes to do! I want to believe it was licking! She needs to sort out her problems with #1 sow because she is very passive but overall a lot heavier and traditionally shes been in charge :P They seem very evenly matched these days and it's hard to tell who's in charge atm. I will keep going in the same vein, having floor times every day but separating them overnight to allow baby some solid rest and food/water times.
 
Also one quick question, the baby pig is obsessed with the sow that's chasing her, she likes to come and be near her, often following her bum or sniffing her generally. Why is this? She hasn't yet shown as much interest in the sow that loves her and wants to be her big mummy!
 
I repositioned the loft bit next to the main cage and oh they love their new big cage! I'll need to buy/make some new liners, it's a bit make-shift atm but that has definitely helped the group dynamics as I've been able to space out all the food and water locations much further. Thanks so much for the advice VickiA. If this level of tolerance keeps up I think I won't need to separate them again and they'll improve. They've all had an opportunity to eat and little baby pig has just been doing zoomies and popcorning like I've never seen before!
 
I'm so glad it's working out for your girls @katiepig :luv:. Well done for sorting the layout for the girls. They won't mind a mismatched fleece or base but the space can make all the difference. I moved my foster pigs into a larger space this week and they are so much happier. I do love a happy ending.
 
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