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Here We Go Again - Uri/mucus And Mini Poops!

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dearbarbie

dearbarbie

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Hi guys

A few weeks ago I posted about new piggie baby Burt (6 mo old) having a one-off snotty nose and a sneeze. He sneezed a few more times when we were handling him and went to the vet (Seers Croft, thanks @Pebble ) where the vet confirmed his breathing sounded okay but he had some mucus. We came home with 0.4ml Baytril and 0.1ml of doxycyclin to be administered daily. After the Jesse episode a few months ago I was worried it was something we were doing wrong but he reassured us that thankfully it was not. He's not snotty or anything and has only been like that once.

Now, he's a smaller pig than the other so has always eaten less (they don't get on so live next to each other for interaction but can't touch each other, which makes monitoring food intake much easier!

He's in the house with me atm and is munching on hay so that's good - but the only veggies I can get him to eat are dandelion leaves. Over the past week we've done the usual thing of veggies at night and he's not touched the pepper we gave him yesterday. Before that, he ate part of one another night, part of a carrot but it's defo less than usual. Dandelion leaves, it seems, are all he wants to eat.

He weighs just over a kilo and vet said that apart from this mucus issue he has the right weight and healthy shape - that was a week ago, so a week of meds. The vet said avoid feeding Critical Care unless he stops eating his food - tried him with a syringe and he'd had a few licks thankfully.

And today I've noticed his poops are about half the size as usual. He's not happy, he's hiding away and although has always been timid (rescue pig!), he's seemingly a bit more so this past few days (although tying dandelion leaves around stuff in his hutch has seen him interact a bit.

He's due back at the vets next Friday - could this be the meds killing his appetite or should we go back to the vet early?

Oh, and this is what he looks like when well - isn't he a beaut!?

10612969_10152767935342941_6700304750767904083_n.jpg
 
Baytril is well known for suppressing the appetite. :(

Please top him up on hand feed as the size and amount of his poos is clearly showing that he is not eating properly. it would also be good to give him a pinch of probiotics to support the guts about 1-2 hours after the antibiotic; if he is not eating veg, syringe it dissvolved in 1 ml water (equals to mouthfuls).
You may also want to look at giving him some extra vitamin C. Please weigh him daily at the time in the feeding cycle until he is out of the woods instead of just weekly.
If you wish to, you can also prop up his guts by syringing him water that has been steeped in some fresh healthy poos from his companion and contains gut flora to help restock his own guts. Many ill/recovering piggies will eat poos from their companion for this purpose and poo soup, as gross as it is, is usually a great hit with an ill piggy! ;)
Rough, nutritionally poor fibre is also welcome to help rebalance the guts. Brown cardboard or toilet roll inners usually go down well.

You can find information on hand feeding, probiotics and vitamin in our detailed hand feeding guide: http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

His normal weight is well within the range of a normal adult weight (which is quite large anyway) and nothing to worry about. Not all boars are whoppers, and nor should they be, as overweight is a risk factor in operations! A good heft (weight/size ratio) is when you can still feel the ribs, but they should not be standing out.
 
Did the vet say where the mucous was? Bisolvon may help clear it but it would need to be prescribed by the vet.
 
I would ask about Bisolvon then as it does really help. You could also try steam therapy. I think you may have done that with Jesse?
 
I'll ask when we go back. He's thankfully taking CC from me so no need to force feed and about to put him in the run so he gets some grass/dandelions down him. How would we do the steam? We didn't do that with Jesse. Thanks so much for replying x
 
Glad he is taking the CC.

For steam therapy you can either:

- Place 2 drops of Olbas oil in boiling water in a bowl next to the cage

OR

- Use a steam inhaler, also with 2 drops of Olbas oil in boiling water and then hold over the nose in 5 second bursts. I would test it on yourself first though in case it is too hot. I have this one:

http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Easy-Breathing-Steam-Inhaler_1400961/
 
Good to hear his lungs are clear and that they've prescribed doxy as well as baytril.

The massive daily temperature variations occurring now as we move into Autumn means we will start to see more respiratory problems in piggies and it is important you keep him in a relatively constant environment, free from draughts (I wouldn;t be putting him outside any longer) especially as he is currently fighting off an infection.

Smaller poos is obviously a sign he is not getting as much fibre/food as he needs.....and the best way to monitor this apart from poo-patrol is by daily weighing. If they get any smaller or less frequent you may need to g back to the vets for some gut motility drugs but all the while he is "popping them out regularly " (even though they are smaller than usual) , then that is OK.

Sick pigs do go off certain veggies/foods.........and grass and dandelions often become the ones of choice. It's good that he is still eating hay. Lots of good suggestions above from Wiebke - especially coarse fibre (I use shredded white kitchen roll)
Rather than use CC to top him up, will he eat softened nuggets? Also he might need a bowl of water instead of a bottle as sometimes poorly piggies are unable to drink from the spout properly owing to blocked noses etc (and lack of water intake can be responsible for some dramatic overnight weight losses).

As Helen has said, Bisolvon is great for snotty piggies....often overlooked by vets as part of a treatment plan - but my vets have always agreed to it when asked.
I also use Olbas oil steam baths. I use an old tupperware container with holes punched in lid, Put kitchen roll in the bottom and add olbas oil drops plus hot water and re-seal. Then place next to cage (or more effective - have pig on lap with tupperware beside me and point nose towards it!).

Biggest worry is the fact he is hiding away .it takes a couple of days for the antibtioics to cut in so you may see him start fo perk up today/tomorrow. .If he doesn't improve or his fur is fluffed up and his eating deteriorates I would go back to the vet early with a view to perhaps finding out if he is also in pain and getting pain relief. Although unlikely it might indicate a developing dental issue so asl vet for a thorough exam of his jaw for any tender areas and if possible a check that molars aren't starting to spur because of his reduced fibre intake. (Removing food/hay and providing cucumber batons without the skin 30mins prior to vet visit - in your case during travel time - can help clean out the mouth to enable molars to be seen better!)

Hopefully by the time you read this he will have perked up a bit!.....and yes - he is rather scrumptious!
x
 
Thank you! Vet checked his teeth and said they were healthy yay. Will try mushed up pellets, he's had some dandelion this morning. Poop is still regular thankfully, and he's chatting to himself happily especially when sat on me so that's good. There was some random sounds coming when I think he was trying to go toilet yesterday - could that be from an upset gut? He's still sneezing, or what I think a piggie sneeze is. We'll call vet and get him back. He had a bit of celery last evening but hadn't touched the stick we left him overnight ;( about to give him meds again. Poor Burt!
 
Mashed pellets gone down a treat! Was really inquisitive this morning and ran around his 'indoor' crate peering out of it and generally being nosy... Seems he's perked up a bit, been washing himself and stuff, even though there's been one poo-squeak. Fingers crossed our cheeky boy is getting better. We didn't have the best experience with Jesse so obv been pretty worried about this guy!
 
Hi guys, separate thread to Burt's URI as want to be sure it's seen. He's 6mo old and I know young pigs pee orange but look at this.... Should I be going to the vet today with this? He seems perky enough and just took a syringe of mashed pallets from me.

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Hi! We recommend to please keep all information that belongs to one piggy/one case together, so we can see it in context and can adjust our advice accordingly. Our medical "contributors" monitor the helath/illness section and get alerts about new posts on existing threads.

It does not necessarily like look like blood to me, but what can happen especially in the wake of a UTI is for a specific variety of bacteria which is present in the body, but normally controlled to suddenly flourish due to a lowered immune system. It causes to the urine to oxidate very strongly. You may see that the urine is clear when exits the body and only discolours in contact with the air. it looks more worrying than it is, but if it frightens you or if you are worried that it still contains some blood (which doesn't need to be necessarily visible to be present), please see your vet.

Generally blood in the urine either dries as small red patches in the middle of a urine puddle or as differently coloured reddish rims, depending on the amount. if your urine is all the same tint, then there it is not blood or there is no significant amount of blood in the urine. ;)
 
Snap - Carson's wee after he started zithromax last week. Dipstick showed no blood.

Second time I've had bright orange urine with a poorly piggie on antibiotics. and I know of others who've had similar.

What causes it and should you be worried? The jury is still out on this.

Orange wee can be caused by dehydration, carrots, other food dyes (inc those in Vit C tablets), dandelions, some constituents in medications (possibly banana septrin) and lastly due to the oxidation of porphyrins excreted in the urine as a result of normal/abnormal metabolism. In the latter case the urine will come out normal colour but immediately turn orange on exposure to air because of the chemicals it contains. (If you syringe it up and leave the syringe for a few minutes you can actually see an orange flaky/powdery precipitate develop).

It may be nothing.....but I would be alert re his eating/food intake and general wellbeing as Carson became quite lethargice and dehydrated when the orange wee appeared and at one point he had daily sub fluids for 3 days that really helped him perk up again. I have one further hypothesis that this type of orange wee in some poorly piggies could be a bacterial by-product from a specific (as yet unidentified) bacterium that shows in the urine as the bug begins to get killed off by the antibiotics.

Should you go to the out of hours vet today? No. he is still perky.....Watch and wait...syringe water......and if he starts to slow down/reduce food/urine output then back to the vets tomorrow.

x
 

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Cookie&Cream said:
Don't rabbits pee a simular colour and that's normal? So is that the same thing with Guinea Pigs or not? Just wondering!
Click to expand...

No, fresh guinea pig pee should be normally more yellow to pretty colourless and dry a lighter rusty colour. The colour of urine depends on what veg you are feeding and also how much fluid a piggy is drinking.
 
I was also going to say that some antibiotics turn wee orange. I agree it needs monitoring though.
 
I'm going to link to your other new thread about the orange pee because this is all possibly related.

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/orange-red-pee.119558/

Further to my post on there....and in combination with this one.....I think you;re biggest worries are because of what happened to little Jesse and you don;t want to "leave things too late" to get Burt any treatment he might need. You re vigilant and clued up on the signs to watch out for....have spotted more than the average owner and are therefore doing great!

Reduced activity, reduced food intake and small poo output are all common signs that develop to a greater or lesser degree during the first 48hours after antibiotic administration in a poorly pig and provided supportive care is given to take account of those symptoms, the pig will then to start to improve as the antibiotics kick in....The fact his weight is >1kg and he is washing himself is a good sign that he is progressing well and the antibiotics are starting to do their stuff. (don;t forget you have two of them so that will cover all the usual types of nasties for URI and then some).

The "worrying" sign is the orange wee....and if it were my first time experiencing it then I would be rushing off to the vet today too! Thankfully, having seen this occur previously on the forum (also with my own pigs and most recently with my Carson last week) orange wee, whilst uncommon, is not unknown in poorly pigs when antibiotics are started.Burt is a young pig with no previous signs or symptoms of kidney/urinary issues (unlike Carson) so again, the orange wee can also be checked out tomorrow rather than today. (Obviously in the unlikely event he becomes lethargic or floppy then that is an emergency)

I would continue monitor him closely today and make sure he is still lively and getting plenty of fluids and fibre. Tempt him with as much fresh dandelions and grass as he will eat (get a stock in whilst it is still daylight and keep in fridge) ,Also aromatic fresh herbs such as basil, parsley and coriander can help stimulate the appetite when a piggie has a blocked nose and can;t smell very well.
Keep him on a towel and monitor the frequency of his urine output (much easier now it's orange!) If he doesn't wee for 4hours (which he should do with all those diuretic dandelions etc) then syringe water (10-15ml every 2hrs) to keep him hydrated and "flushing through" the bacterial breakdown products which in themselves can make a piggie feel pretty carp. In the very unlikely event he hasn't weed at all for >6hrs....or becomes becomes lethargic or floppy.... then it's an emergency vet trip...probably because of dehydration.

I would schedule a check-up vet visit tomorrow to not only set your mind at rest but keep the vet informed: (It's what I would do if Burt was my pig)
a) check wee for blood (I think it is unlikely)....see if you can collect a sample by putting him a clean plastic container and syringing into a clean jar/bottle then stick in fridge until you see vet.
b) check he is properly hydrated and lungs still clear
c) if necessary some gut motility meds (cisapride and zantac)
d) Bisolvon for the snot

Hope this helps reduce the worry so you can enjoy your evening feeding Burt dandelions!
x

P.S. Don;t forget you can always ring Uncle Jeremy or Uncle Hedley tonight for reassurance and book an appointment for tomorrow art the same time...and you've got my phone number too!
 
Thanks everyone and sorry for double thread confusion... Doesn't help that I've got a migraine lol, migraine brain is confused. He's pooing less today so will call vet tomorrow. I took his hidey away as he was just sitting but now he's munching on hay and had a bit of cucumber and pottered about a bit. He's been on the antibiotics for 9 days now.
 
dearbarbie said:
He's been on the antibiotics for 9 days now.
Click to expand...

My apologies...I thought he started AB's last friday not the friday before last. Pooing less today therefore is also not satsifactory gvien the 9 days.

In that case I think a vets visit is definitely called for ....to include dental re-exam for underlying tender spots in jaw (indicating possible slow-developing abcess) and to rule out possible molar spur development......plus if required supportive pain relief and possible gut motiity meds.

See what they say... I will send you a PM.

x
 
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