Hooting on and off

[Piggies&buns]

Hi everyone just wanted to double check. Meloxicam 1.5mg/ml. Does 0.42 mls 2x a day for 7 days sound about right? I know I need to trust vet but I just wanted to double check. This is for URI

Thank you so much.

It depends on your piggy’s weight but also keep in mind there is a sliding scale for meloxicom dosages available and the vet has multiple factors to take into account when deciding on the appropriate dose.
Unfortunately none of us are able to (or actually allowed to) specifically tell you whether this is an appropriate dose.
If you are worried it is always best to discuss dosing with the vet so they explain their reasoning for any dose

 

[hayethusiasts]

I’m sorry to hear this

If the weight has been stable between Wednesday (when you made this post) and today then you can afford to wait until tomorrow morning weight check without feeding.
Make sure you are weighing daily from now on and then use that to determine whether and when you need to start feeding.
If weight has been lost since between Wednesday and this morning, then start feeding now (a respiratory infection itself can cause them to not eat enough, without the addition of the risk of antibiotics making their tummies upset)

Sorry to ask. I dont want to sound doubtful but I just wanted to double check, does metacam 1.5mg/ml 0.42 mls 2x a day sound about right? This was what the vet has prescribed them

 

[hayethusiasts]

It depends on your piggy’s weight but also keep in mind there is a sliding scale for meloxicom dosages available and the vet has multiple factors to take into account when deciding on the appropriate dose.
Unfortunately none of us are able to (or actually allowed to) specifically tell you whether this is an appropriate dose.
If you are worried it is always best to discuss dosing with the vet so they explain their reasoning for any dose

Thank you.

 

[hayethusiasts]

It depends on the strength of the particular AB you have been given how much is needed. I've had Baytril in at least 4 strengths the poultry one I think being the strongest when I had to give .11 then the same piggy got a different strength and needed .5, it can all get confusing sometimes.
Fingers crossed they do well and tolerate it well without needing too much syringe feeding.

I have the 25mg/ml and vet wants me to give 0.9 mls 2x a day.

 

[hayethusiasts]

Sorry guys I need some reassurance. Has anyone given 0.9 mls of Baytril 25mg/ml twice a day to their guinea pigs? My guinea pigs are 1161g and 1209g. I did query this with my vet and she said this is the right dose. I am just sooo anxious about giving it vet believes they have an asymptomatic respiratory bacteria. They are otherwise fit, healthy and no symptoms at all that the vet can see apart from the on and off hooting (at most 3x a week) that one of my piggies have. I read here somewhere that their guinea pig's death may have been caused by baytril overdose so now i am panicking

 

[weepweeps]

If you are unsure I would recommend you talk to your vet again.

The only time I have been prescribed Baytril was for a 1.2kg piggy. It was 0.5mls once a day.

 

[hayethusiasts]

If you are unsure I would recommend you talk to your vet again.

The only time I have been prescribed Baytril was for a 1.2kg piggy. It was 0.5mls once a day.

I did and she said it is the right dose but i feel this is too high.

Thank you. I am hoping someone here has had an experience of giving 0.9 mls 2x a day

 

[Wiebke]

I did and she said it is the right dose but i feel this is too high.

Thank you. I am hoping someone here has had an experience of giving 0.9 mls 2x a day

Hi

As you are in the UK, you have to be aware that every vet is referring to a medications database that lists the species-specific possible dosage range band from the lowest to the strongest. This is in order to prevent overdosing. You can rest assured that while your vet has maxed out the possible dosage range, they are not overdosing when battling a non-standard bacterial infection.

You cannot compare those dosages with the kind of standard problems that our daily bread on here. If you have anxiety issues, then doing DIY online research can be really a problem. 'I think my piggies have been killed by overdosing' is not exactly proof of anything but an owner trying to make sense of a bad reaction to baytril - something that can happen with any antibiotic.
Other countries may not necessarily have this centralised medications database available for guinea pigs, so in those places overdosing may happen. That is another aspect you will have to take into consideration; which part of the world those posts are coming from.

A third aspect to take into consideration is that every antibiotic covers only a slice in a whole wide spectrum. Your vet is trained to know which antibiotics are best for which type of bacteria. Guinea pigs and other rodents have a more limited range of antibiotics available due to a rather different metabolism. If there is no ideal antibiotic available for guinea pigs, then the next best alternative is use the antibiotic that comes closest and to max out the dosage.


What you have brace for is that the higher the dosage, the more likely baytril is going to knock out the gut microbiome. It is one of the antibiotics that is more prone to do so.
Please be very generous with prebiotics and get hold of recovery formula for syringe feeding two piggies who will likely lose their appetite completely.
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

If you are not happy with your vet's prescription, you can ask for a referral to another vet.

I am very sorry that you are up against a rather tricky foe where there is no easy cure but I hope that my detailed answer is helping you to understand your vet's decisions a bit better.

 

[hayethusiasts]

Hi

As you are in the UK, you have to be aware that every vet is referring to a medications database that lists the species-specific possible dosage range band from the lowest to the strongest. This is in order to prevent overdosing. You can rest assured that while your vet has maxed out the possible dosage range, they are not overdosing when battling a non-standard bacterial infection.

You cannot compare those dosages with the kind of standard problems that our daily bread on here. If you have anxiety issues, then doing DIY online research can be really a problem. 'I think my piggies have been killed by overdosing' is not exactly proof of anything but an owner trying to make sense of a bad reaction to baytril - something that can happen with any antibiotic.
Other countries may not necessarily have this centralised medications database available for guinea pigs, so in those places overdosing may happen. That is another aspect you will have to take into consideration; which part of the world those posts are coming from.

A third aspect to take into consideration is that every antibiotic covers only a slice in a whole wide spectrum. Your vet is trained to know which antibiotics are best for which type of bacteria. Guinea pigs and other rodents have a more limited range of antibiotics available due to a rather different metabolism. If there is no ideal antibiotic available for guinea pigs, then the next best alternative is use the antibiotic that comes closest and to max out the dosage.


What you have brace for is that the higher the dosage, the more likely baytril is going to knock out the gut microbiome. It is one of the antibiotics that is more prone to do so.
Please be very generous with prebiotics and get hold of recovery formula for syringe feeding two piggies who will likely lose their appetite completely.
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

If you are not happy with your vet's prescription, you can ask for a referral to another vet.

I am very sorry that you are up against a rather tricky foe where there is no easy cure but I hope that my detailed answer is helping you to understand your vet's decisions a bit better.

Thank you for your insight. I do trust the vet - she is exotics. The reason why I went to vets in the first place was one of my guinea pigs have the occassional hooting which we figured out happens when we give the forage. There were no changes in both - their weight, mobility, everything is normal. I also noticed the occassional hooter had a rather bigger belly than usual - soft, but it just seemed bigger. I really just wanted someone to examine them and say yes they are fine. Which she did. She physically examined them all over, found no signs whatsoever. She even said she was not worried with the tummy.

Then she asked how's the other one, is he sneezing? She asked. I said occassionally. Once a week maybe I said. Then this is when she said they may have some lurking bacteria. (I thought guinea pigs do the occassional sneeze to clear dusty hay or something, am I wrong?)

Whilst I do understand this may be a nasty bacteria - and a rather asymptomatic one, what I was really hoping for is someone to say - yes i have given that dose for 2 weeks and my guinea pigs are fine. A reassurance rather than medical advice. But if no one here has given it at all (the best and largest forum i know), that's where the worry comes.

I hope i am not coming across as anything else other than a pigmum who would like to feel they are not alone at present. Because the fact that no one here, I feel, has given that big dose makes me rather feel this is a lot for my little babies to take in.

 

[Piggies&buns]

We can only advise you to speak to the vet again - If your vet can explain the reasoning for the dose to you rather than just say yes the dose is fine, it might be helpful for you.
I understand what you are saying - having someone else say yes I’ve had that size dose and all was well is reassuring, but from what I understand your piggy was on a previous course of antibiotics that was shorter and lower dosed than this course but the issue has returned and potentially spread to the other piggy? Therefore to me it seems that your vet has considered that it needs a longer, higher, harder hitting course to get it under control and make sure it doesn’t come back.
Higher doses may not be common on here and not finding comparable stories doesn’t mean the dose is wrong but it does mean your vet has considered the background and what is most likely to work this time. There is likely no benefit in repeating a lower dosed course if a previous course hasn’t stopped the issue from returning.

They can do an occasional sneeze to clear debris from their airway. We always advise that if it clears and stays cleared then it is probably just dust. If the issue doesn’t clear or clears then returns then to see a vet as it can suggest a bigger issue

I have merged your threads together so that all background is in one place. It makes things easier for us to follow what has been advised previously by us and your vets

 

[hayethusiasts]

We can only advise you to speak to the vet again - If your vet can explain the reasoning for the dose to you rather than just say yes the dose is fine, it might be helpful for you.
I understand what you are saying - having someone else say yes I’ve had that size dose and all was well is reassuring, but from what I understand your piggy was on a previous course of antibiotics that was shorter and lower dosed than this course but the issue has returned and potentially spread to the other piggy? Therefore to me it seems that your vet has considered that it needs a longer, higher, harder hitting course to get it under control and make sure it doesn’t come back.
Higher doses may not be common on here and not finding comparable stories doesn’t mean the dose is wrong but it does mean your vet has considered the background and what is most likely to work this time. There is likely no benefit in repeating a lower dosed course if a previous course hasn’t stopped the issue from returning.

They can do an occasional sneeze to clear debris from their airway. We always advise that if it clears and stays cleared then it is probably just dust. If the issue doesn’t clear or clears then returns then to see a vet as it can suggest a bigger issue

I have merged your threads together so that all background is in one place. It makes things easier for us to follow what has been advised previously by us and your vets

He had proper wheezing before. He was given 0.4 mls for 5 days previously

And the hooting as you know i have almost concluded to be from the forage.

About the sneezing. I have heard them sneeze since i adopted them and i have never noticed it getting worse and it only ever happens when they dig deep enough in their hay. This is where i am conflicted because she said they should not sneeze at all. Not even once to clear their nostrils. This is where i felt she is tackling this rather too seriously that what it is.

Thank you all so much for your insights. I really appreciate it. I just feel so lost at the moment. They would not take their critical meds too and I really do not want to put the vet in the position of making her feel i am undermining her expertise

 

[hayethusiasts]

He had proper wheezing before. He was given 0.4 mls for 5 days previously

And the hooting as you know i have almost concluded to be from the forage.

About the sneezing. I have heard them sneeze since i adopted them and i have never noticed it getting worse and it only ever happens when they dig deep enough in their hay. This is where i am conflicted because she said they should not sneeze at all. Not even once to clear their nostrils. This is where i felt she is tackling this rather too seriously that what it is.

Thank you all so much for your insights. I really appreciate it. I just feel so lost at the moment. They would not take their critical meds too and I really do not want to put the vet in the position of making her feel i am undermining her expertise

Just want to clarify - 0.4mls 2x a day. Now they are on 0.9 mls 2x a day for 14 days.

 

[hayethusiasts]

Thank you so much everyone. The vet phoned me just now - she can probably feel how anxious I was. She has reassured me and has recommended me a different type of critical care to try as I said they are not very keen on the one they have now. I have managed to ask as well if this is the dose of baytril she usually gives and she said yes. So at least somebody else out there is giving, or has given the same to their guinea pigs. I know it's now up to me to trust that my piggies will be able to combat the side effects of the antibiotics and do everything I can to support them. It is challenging but I have to be brave for my babies.

Again thank you. Will update everyone soon.

 

[Piggies&buns]

It can take a bit of trial and error to find a recovery feed they like.
I’m glad you are reassured and I hope they recover well

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much everyone. The vet phoned me just now - she can probably feel how anxious I was. She has reassured me and has recommended me a different type of critical care to try as I said they are not very keen on the one they have now. I have managed to ask as well if this is the dose of baytril she usually gives and she said yes. So at least somebody else out there is giving, or has given the same to their guinea pigs. I know it's now up to me to trust that my piggies will be able to combat the side effects of the antibiotics and do everything I can to support them. It is challenging but I have to be brave for my babies.

Again thank you. Will update everyone soon.

HUGS

I am glad that your vet has been able to reassure you.

Overdosing prescriptions are really not at all usual in the UK but different vets can have different preferences for possible, especially stronger antibiotics due to their own experiences. Baytril is actually quite a strong broad band antibiotic; hence why it was for a long time the only licensed one for rodents.

As a forum, we can only go by collective member experiences but they are punctual and do not necessarily cover the whole field. There is nothing comparable to your own situation on here. But your experience will help us in the future if something in that line comes up, so please let us know how you get on.

Wishing you all the best. Be generous with your probiotics and mix in a little into your syringe feed, too. Unfortunately, with both piggies affected, live microbiome transfer (i.e. 'poo soup') is not an option for you.

We provide ongoing moral support as well if you wish to.

 

[hayethusiasts]

HUGS

I am glad that your vet has been able to reassure you.

Overdosing prescriptions are really not at all usual in the UK but different vets can have different preferences for possible, especially stronger antibiotics due to their own experiences. Baytril is actually quite a strong broad band antibiotic; hence why it was for a long time the only licensed one for rodents.

As a forum, we can only go by collective member experiences but they are punctual and do not necessarily cover the whole field. There is nothing comparable to your own situation on here. But your experience will help us in the future if something in that line comes up, so please let us know how you get on.

Wishing you all the best. Be generous with your probiotics and mix in a little into your syringe feed, too. Unfortunately, with both piggies affected, live microbiome transfer (i.e. 'poo soup') is not an option for you.

We provide ongoing moral support as well if you wish to.

Thank you. How generous could i be with the pro-C please? I know it is usually given a pinch in 3 mls - could i give more?

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you. How generous could i be with the pro-C please? I know it is usually given a pinch in 3 mls - could i give more?

Give it like that but up it, if needed. It is one of those situations where you are pushing the limits, so you can go over the limit with the probiotics as well. My very experienced vet has told me that when it was make or break with a bad eye infection for an inoperable piggy who was on another very strong antibiotic but the principle is the same.

You could try to add a little mushed banana for flavouring if that helps the formula to go down.

The one formula brand where you shouldn't add anything is emeraid because it is already enhanced. If you are using that, then give extra probiotics at other times if wished. Also offer water regularly; especially if they are off their food.

All the best. You are welcome to ask any questions along the way.

 

[hayethusiasts]

Give it like that but up it, if needed. It is one of those situations where you are pushing the limits, so you can go over the limit with the probiotics as well. My very experienced vet has told me that when it was make or break with a bad eye infection for an inoperable piggy who was on another very strong antibiotic but the principle is the same.

You could try to add a little mushed banana for flavouring if that helps the formula to go down.

The one formula brand where you shouldn't add anything is emeraid because it is already enhanced. If you are using that, then give extra probiotics at other times if wished. Also offer water regularly; especially if they are off their food.

All the best. You are welcome to ask any questions along the way.

Thank you again. Will do. Then at least fingers crossed once this is all over I can help others who will go through this in the future. Her reasoning was, She'd rather tackle the infection strong than give a weaker dose with the risk of my piggies still having the infection. I am sure she is talking from experience. I was just surprised at how hard she wants to fight a rather asymptomatic respiratory infection. But she is reachable so that is reassuring.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you again. Will do. Then at least fingers crossed once this is all over I can help others who will go through this in the future. Her reasoning was, She'd rather tackle the infection strong than give a weaker dose with the risk of my piggies still having the infection. I am sure she is talking from experience. I was just surprised at how hard she wants to fight a rather asymptomatic respiratory infection. But she is reachable so that is reassuring.

If the infection comes back, it will hit very fast and very hard. Guinea pigs have a much faster metabolism, which means that medication will run way behind the event horizon before it can fully kick in. This is the scenario your vet wants to avoid.
Unlike painkillers, antibiotics gradually build up over a number of times to peak efficiency and then once you stop, they will gradually wean over the same number of days - the same goes for humans. They don't work at full strength from day one. Does make sense for you?

 

[hayethusiasts]

If the infection comes back, it will hit very fast and very hard. Guinea pigs have a much faster metabolism, which means that medication will run way behind the event horizon before it can fully kick in. This is the scenario your vet wants to avoid.
Unlike painkillers, antibiotics gradually build up over a number of times to peak efficiency and then once you stop, they will gradually wean over the same number of days - the same goes for humans. They don't work at full strength from day one. Does make sense for you?

It does, thank you. will update everyone soon if anything changes. At present they are still eating their hay so let's see when it truly kicks in.

 

[hayethusiasts]

Hi i just wanted some advice please. I just noticed it said on their metacam to give it with full stomach. How do i guarantee this? Do i give critical care when giving the metacam? Thank you

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi i just wanted some advice please. I just noticed it said on their metacam to give it with full stomach. How do i guarantee this? Do i give critical care when giving the metacam? Thank you

That doesn’t apply to guinea pigs.

That warning is for cats and dogs for whom it can cause sickness/diarrhoea. They doesn’t happen in Guinea pigs whose gut is different and requires food constantly going through it anyway.

So, you can give the metacam when giving a critical care feed if it is easier because you’ve already got piggy out, but equally you can give metacam independently of anything else

 

[hayethusiasts]

That doesn’t apply to guinea pigs.

That warning is for cats and dogs for whom it can cause sickness/diarrhoea. They doesn’t happen in Guinea pigs whose gut is different and requires food constantly going through it anyway.

So, you can give the metacam when giving a critical care feed if it is easier because you’ve already got piggy out, but equally you can give metacam independently of anything else

Thank you very much.

 

[hayethusiasts]

Hi everyone. My piggies are losing around 10g of weight daily from day 4. So in total we are almost approaching a week and they both have lost around 30g in total. They seem to be eating and drinking normally. Would this warrant critical care feeding?

Thank you very much. One of my piggies absolutely hate critical care and I just do not want to put them through stress if not needed.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi everyone. My piggies are losing around 10g of weight daily from day 4. So in total we are almost approaching a week and they both have lost around 30g in total. They seem to be eating and drinking normally. Would this warrant critical care feeding?

Thank you very much. One of my piggies absolutely hate critical care and I just do not want to put them through stress if not needed.

50g is the point at which you get concerned. 30g is still within normal fluctuation

 

[hayethusiasts]

50g is the point at which you get concerned. 30g is still within normal fluctuation

Thank you so much.