How do you keep the fur of rodents with sticky/watery eyes as clean as possible?

[Sue_P]

One of my rodents has had watery eyes since last September and at least twice a day I press tissue paper against his eyes to absorb any wet tears but just lately his eyes have been pretty bad and all the fur around one eye got gunked up and became rock solid. I had a rabbit with a dodgy eye once and I had the same problem with him. Is there a miracle way to get out dried up tears stuck in amongst the fur without pulling out the fur? My rodent is non co-operative if I try to squeeze dried up bits so that they break up and fall off, when I try he usually moves his head right fast and in-turn a clump of his fur comes out. :red & my rodent pulled out a big clump of his own fur around his eye the other day and he’s now got a bald spot. I can’t be there all day to catch all the tears whilst they’re still wet so has anyone any tips on how to clean up manked fur after it’s dried rock hard?

 

[Toffeewoffee]

Is there any reason they are watery or sticky? Has he seen a vet about it? This can be a symptom of a few things, with treatment you could eb free of worrying about it.

 

[Sue_P]

I took him last Christmas to the vet and had him treated with baytril just in case it was an URI. Obviously it wasn’t. I think it’s hayfever. He’s a happy fat rodent, doesn’t act ill or distressed, I reckon’ it’s just another medical condition he’ll have for the rest of his life. He has a snooty nose too but I can keep that under control as he now seems to quite like having tissue paper rubbed around his nostrils, the snot doesn’t build up around there as much now. Just sometimes his eyes can look pretty bad. Saying that though, this morning strangely there was no tears, just a little bit of dried up snot to get. I left the windows open for once which I don’t usually do, I wonder if it had owt to do with that? I’ll try it again tonight and see if he still looks dry in the morning.

 

[Toffeewoffee]

Well i just saw your post about the importance of vet treatment thread, so i wont go on

Maybe just cotton wool pads/balls soaked in sterile warm water would be best.

xx

 

[Wiebke]

Have you seen a vet over the watery eye? Any eye problem needs to be seen.

 

[Sue_P]

Well i just saw your post about the importance of vet treatment thread, so i wont go on

Lecture away, I wouldn’t care anyway.

Maybe just cotton wool pads/balls soaked in sterile warm water would be best.

I’ve tried cotton wool and water before but it’s pretty useless. I used to try it on my co-operative rabbit and it didn’t work on him and I’ve tried it once on my black rodent and he wasn’t up for it at all. He’d move his head all over but even when I held him to rub it on it still didn’t shift the glunk off.

 

[Squidge]

random thought - what about something like Johnson's baby shampoo? It's designed to not hurt if it gets in eyes, so it might help to loosen, if not break down the gunk that's coming out of the eye.

But I do think that possible causes for it should be investigated as well - vets can use iodine to check for scratches on the eye, or you could try changing bedding incase it is an allergy.

 

[Sue_P]

I don’t want to start using vetbed, I don’t want anything as rank as that in my washer every day nor do I wanna use my washing machine constantly, I’d far rather stick to hay beds whether it gives him a runny nose and eyes or not.

What he has must be an allergy as if he had damage to his eyes it wouldn’t explain why he also has a runny nose, plus surely a scratch to the eyeball would have healed since last Sept and he’d be unlucky to get two scratched eyeballs. His eyeballs look fine. The only logical explanation is an allergy.

I haven’t tried Johnson's baby shampoo, that’s a good idea. Anyone else tried it? If so, do you know if it works?

 

[Pebble]

Continuously watering eyes could also contribute to the runny nose and maybe it is coming down the nostrils via the tear ducts - (which could rule out a blocked tear duct) Does the eyeball itself still look normal with no sign of cloudiness, bulge or receding into the socket?

If it were a scratch developing into a corneal ulcer etc you would probably have seen it by now as the eye would go cloudy.However aside from a possible allergy, the fact it is presumably looking like a normal eyeball apart from the watering that is getting steadily worse suggests to me that you do need to visit a vet to rule out the following:

Firstly - a condition called entropion. This is where the eyelids/lashes turn slightly inwards and the lashes rub the surface of the eye. It gradually gets worse asthe pig gets older and causes damage/erosion to the eyeball over time. This will not show in the same way as a corneal ulcer. (Incidentally it is flourescein dye not iodine that is used to examine eye problems in animals) Entropion can be rectified by an op - otherwise eye drops to reduce the inlammation/irritation are often prescribed by a vet. The treatment recommended will depend upon the severity of the condition.


Other possibilities that again need to be ruled out by a vet are an elongated tooth root issue, blocked tear duct or a conjuctival infection.


As for cleaning up round the eye - the only way is to stop it watering. Introducing chemcials, no matter how gentle, can irritate the eye further in terms of fumes from eg scents/oils that evaporate. I have had many different eye problems in my piggies - from entropion, stuck hay seeds, blocked tear ducts, conjunctivitis, lymphoma in the conjunctiva, corneal ulcers, ruptured eyeball resulting in removal (from fighting) and most recently a corneal ulcer that became a melting ulcer resulting in the piggie being PTS. All were associated with some discharge from the eye but the amount varied greatly. The only thing I used to bathe an eye is warm sterile saline solution - bought in individual use tubes and heated in a cup of warm water before being opened and used to flush the eye and surrounding area.

Given
a) the symptoms you describe in terms of the level/amount of discharge being produced such as fur clumping, bald patches etc
b) it has gotten much worse recently with apparently no change in the environment/bedding etc,
I would hesitate to think this was "just an allergy"

Not what you wanted to hear but I do think in this case it is worth a vet trip.

HTH
x

 

[gpmomma]

I don’t want to start using vetbed, I don’t want anything as rank as that in my washer every day nor do I wanna use my washing machine constantly, I’d far rather stick to hay beds whether it gives him a runny nose and eyes or not.

What he has must be an allergy as if he had damage to his eyes it wouldn’t explain why he also has a runny nose, plus surely a scratch to the eyeball would have healed since last Sept and he’d be unlucky to get two scratched eyeballs. His eyeballs look fine. The only logical explanation is an allergy.

You have to under stand this is your pet. You got it and that means you will take care of it properly. Just because the fish is on sale doesn't mean I will feed it to a child who is allergic. Just get cardboard bedding! Or maybe paper based bedding. Maybe fleece if you can hand wash it. And what is hay bed?

 

[Connie]

I very much agree with gpmomma and pebble. If once throroughly checked by a vet this turns out just to be an allergy, and you will not do everything possible to make the life of your pet more comfortable then perhaps you should think about whether your home is the best environment for this particular piggy.

Anybody still feeding a dog food it was allergic too would be seen as neglectfull, i do not see how this is any different. If my eyes were watering all the time it would be a right pain.

 

[Sue_P]

@ gpmomma – I don’t wanna let him just pee onto paper cos he’s got willy problems. I try to keep his *rse-end as clean and dry as possible.

A hay bed is a bed area made of hay. Like this….

& the other rodent pees way heaps! At the end of the day his bed area is rank as hell. If I took out the hay it’d be so, so messy. & like I say, for selfish reasons I don’t wanna use vetbed or fleece and have to wash it all the time.

 

[Sue_P]

@ Pebble – Hey, you sure know your stuff! Thanks for responding.

His eyes look perfectly normal. No swelling, no redness, he doesn’t scratch them. He looks fine. I took a pic of him when he was at his most snottiest but it hasn’t come out brilliantly. There’s actually loads of snot around his nose in this photo but you can’t really see it in the photo.


30-06-12.

I’m not even sure if his runny eyes/nose are getting worser actually. He has better days and worser days. & he got it last September but it went away and came back at Christmas. No explanation for that. & it doesn’t seem to bother him, I actually wish he would try wiping his own nose more often, it would prevent the build-up of snot around his nostrils but he doesn’t seem to care it’s there.


I’m pretty sure his eyelashes are in the right location but I’ll double check tonight.


Would an elongated tooth root problem have gotten really serious by now if he’s had symptoms since last September? Wouldn’t he have probs trying to eat?


I’ll have to read up more on blocked tear ducts. My rabbit had blocked tear ducts but the vets couldn’t clear them even when he was under anesthetic. Can rodents have them unblocked whilst conscious? Because I’m not prepared to have him knocked out if this is something he can get by with.


Do you think Johnsons baby shampoo is a bad idea then Pebble?


Just out of curiosity, where do you buy saline from?

 

[Sue_P]

@ Connie – I have a snotty nose too but there ain’t nowt I can do about that. & I’ll never be parted from my rodents. I love them and they love me and they’re happy rodents. Don’t care what you think!

 

[Connie]

I'm sorry but an animal living with snotty fur and watering eyes is not a healthy one. Just because its an allergy doesnt mean it isnt a heath issue.

Your snotty nosed can be wiped and cleaned by you very easily, and if it was a reaction to something in your home you would simply stay away from it to prevent the reaction. A piggy does not have that choice. How about trying something such as finecard and having hay in a rack, this will reduce dust massivly and if it is an allergy should reduce the problems.

 

[Squidge]

looking at the picture, if they're bedded on newspaper and hay all the time, then I doubt it is an allergy...unless it's an allergy to hay - and that's not something you can deal with really, just make sure you buy dust extracted hay.

I think back to the vets and a course of septrin, or something stronger than baytril, is in order. I had a boar who had the odd runny nose from time to time nothing serious, then one day he just suddenly developed a head tilt, the vet said that it was due to an on-going bacterial infection going into his ear canal...two week course of septrin sorted it out, no snotty nose since.

 

[Sodapops]

I rarely contribute to big debates within the Health & Illness boards - but after reading this whole thread (and a couple of your other thread replies) - am absolutely shocked and very offended by what's been written!

I’d far rather stick to hay beds whether it gives him a runny nose and eyes or not.

You've come here for suggestions on how to improve his condition - yet when offered simple methods of change you couldn't care less!

I actually wish he would try wiping his own nose more often, it would prevent the build-up of snot around his nostrils but he doesn’t seem to care it’s there.

I am really offended by this comment - honestly? you wish he'd wipe his own nose from time to time!

I honestly cannot understand why you have posted for advice - it's blatantly obvious you have no regard for what has been posted - you are going to do whatever you want regardless of whether it has a detrimental affect on the health of your pigs...

Just swallow your pride and get him to a knowledgeable vet! If it's a simple allergy then only after you know this for sure - start making some changes to the way you house your pigs - it's the very least you can do as their owner!!

 

[Pebble]

@ Pebble – Hey, you sure know your stuff! Thanks for responding.

My pleasure

His eyes look perfectly normal. No swelling, no redness, he doesn’t scratch them. He looks fine. I took a pic of him when he was at his most snottiest but it hasn’t come out brilliantly. There’s actually loads of snot around his nose in this photo but you can’t really see it in the photo.

I'd rather see a picture of his eye and the bald patch.

I’m not even sure if his runny eyes/nose are getting worser actually. They must be if he is now losing fur in this area. Many eye conditions cause some watery discharge but not sufficient to cause the problem you describe. Bald patches and sticky fur (which also means he isn;t cleaning himself) indicates a problem pig with possibly a discharge that is not just tear fluid or the milky cleaning fluid and therefore something more than an allergy

He has better days and worser days. & he got it last September but it went away and came back at Christmas. No explanation for that. A low level infection that flares up now and then would be my thought - think myco-plasma or chlamydia. Alternatively he may have a problem going on with the tear glands or third eyelid which could also include lymph-oma invasion

& it doesn’t seem to bother him, I actually wish he would try wiping his own nose more often, it would prevent the build-up of snot around his nostrils but he doesn’t seem to care it’s there.

When you say snot - is it clear, white, yellow or green? If it is anything other than clear fluid he has an infection and needs a vet


I’m pretty sure his eyelashes are in the right location but I’ll double check tonight. I don;t see how you can do this yourself given you don;t know what you;re looking for - again only a trained vet nurse or vet will recognise this symptom


Would an elongated tooth root problem have gotten really serious by now if he’s had symptoms since last September? Wouldn’t he have probs trying to eat? It may not have affected his eating to date. Pigs can eat properly but still have a tooth root problem that finally shows up as problems with the eye including watery discharge. Even then they may still eat normally


I’ll have to read up more on blocked tear ducts. My rabbit had blocked tear ducts but the vets couldn’t clear them even when he was under anesthetic. Can rodents have them unblocked whilst conscious?

No - GA would be needed. However this point is immaterial - there is not a cannula that is of sufficently small diameter to unblock a piggies tear duct...I know because I discussed this with my vet when bandit had eye problems and it was shown he had a blocked tear duct (but also lymph-oma in the third eyelid) The condition of a blocked tear duct can only be managed - firstly with a steroidal or anti-inflammatory and anti-infective eye drop to try and clear it...which works in a majority of cases. If the snot is clear and it is in the nostril from the same side as the affected eye then it suggests it is not a tear duct blockage

Because I’m not prepared to have him knocked out if this is something he can get by with. Understand your concerns ref GA and my only suggestion is find a better vet. I travel a 40mile round trip to my vets becuase they have a really good GA record with my pigs - now approaching 30GA's with recovery every time and no probs.

However, given the severity of the discharge I don;t think he can "get by" - my entropion guinea pig does have some discharge but it doesn;t cake his fur or cause bald patches. Apart from a slightly watery eye, the fur/eyelids/cheek areas are normal - ie fluffy, healthy and intact


Do you think Johnsons baby shampoo is a bad idea then Pebble? Until you knwow what you;re dealing with I'd say yes. All cleaning agents - be they shampoos or vet disinfectants also contain scents to produce a nice smell- which by their very nature are volatile chemicals . The vapour released will hit the eyeball and increase the irritation and worsen the problem. Try holding up a jar of vicks close to your eye and you will see what I mean


Just out of curiosity, where do you buy saline from?

This is what you;re looking for in terms of product. Just do some google research on "sterile saline eyewash" to work out the best deal from whatever source

Given some of the other problems/conditions it could be then I'm sorry, but only a vet can tell you if your piggie can "live with it" following a proper exam .

I have given you all this info I can because it was clear to me that your logic was only sound as far as your own experience of eye problems went. I'm pointing out to you that an allergy is not the only logical conclusion and given my experience of varying eye conditions (plus losing two pigs in the last 3 months that presented with a watery eye - and both also had ongoing urinary/boy bit issues) - I personally would be seeing a vet.

Sue - at the end of the day you will do what you want to do and that is up to you. I am not going to get involved in that debate or make any judgmental statements.

But I am taking the trouble to post all this information because people might view this thread in the future (because their guinea pig presents with a similar type of problem)...and I want to ensure they make an informed decision about whether they should seek professional help for their piggie.

Last post on this thread.

Sue - if you have any further questions - suggest you PM me.

x

 

[Sue_P]

@ Connie – Finecard must be expensive, a hay bale is so much easier and cheap in comparison.


@ Squidge – I don’t buy dust extracted hay as that’s pretty expensive as well but my hay goes through a rigorous cycle of being shaken outside before entering my home. I shake hay for about half an hour every weekend cos of all the bugs that are in it.


My vet doesn’t give out septrin. It’s baytril for everything.


@ Sodapops – Whatever.


@ Pebble – I’m rubbish with cameras, my photos always come out poo. That photo I’ve posted is the bestest one I’ve done of his face so far, I can’t do much better than that. Although there’s actually nothing incredible to see. If you were face-to-face with him you wouldn’t be shocked or overly concerned. He has a bit of crispy old tears around his eyes (including above his eyes), but only a tiny bit and then a bit of tearing at the corner of his eye but not all the time. Depending on how bad it is from day-to-day it ranges from his fur being wet and me being able to soak up quite a bit on a single piece of tissue paper to me not finding anything to soak up at all. It changes all the time. Last night there wasn’t tears, this morning there was. & after I’d pressed tissue paper up to his eye he looked fine afterwards. You’d only see the bald spot if you had him right up to your face and was looking for it. Actually I do have one question, why would one of his eyes water more than the other?

If it is an allergy that puzzles me. Both his nostrils are equally as snotty though.


He only got this bald patch cos he pulled out a gunked up bit of fur himself. If he’d have left it alone he’d still have a full face of fur. Just one of those things. I kept trying to break up the gunked bit so that it’d flake off in pieces but he wouldn’t behave and I thought rather than to upset him and make him angry and possibly end up pulling the fur out myself by accident, I thought I’d just leave it be because I know if he’s got snot around his nose that I’m unable to knock off, that it’s usually come off later the same day by itself. It was the fact that he now has a small bald spot that has made me ask about cleaning fur before it gets to the state of glunking up too much.

 

[Sue_P]

@ Pebble - You know some very long words, have you trained in vetinary stuff? Is lymph-oma invasion cancer?

His snot is clear to light green or light brown or yellow coloured. But I don’t believe he has anything serious going on with fluid in his lungs. His breathing is fine and if it was a URI he’d be long dead by now. I phoned the vet after his Christmas time batch of baytril had no effect and he thought it could some form of allergy. He said if it gets worse then I can pop by anytime and get more baytril just incase it is a URI and that it’s on my rodents notes to have baytril dispensed to me without him seeing a vet. But the vet wasn’t overly concerned with his health and was in agreement with me to just leave him as he is so long as he acts normally and isn’t losing weight.

 

[Sue_P]

@ Pebble - You’re right about me checking his eyelashes, I didn’t really know what I was looking for. Although surely the last vet to see him would have checked for obvious things wrong with his eyes.


Would a tooth problem really cause snot as well though?


My rabbit had different medications shoved in his eyes to try and clear up his teary eye/s. Never made any difference at all. Pointless.


It’s good that your rodents have had a good track record with general anesthetics but I’m still not prepared to put my rodent through anything, he’d only get knocked out if his life depended on it and with treatment the prognosis was good.

 

[Sue_P]

So can you use human eye wash then? There’s probably some of that kicking about at work.


I asked my mum about saline last night and she says it’s basically salt water and that you can dilute a very small amount of salt into water. From my memory though, doesn’t sea water kill when it gets into your eyes?!


Yeah thanks for taking the time out to share all your knowledge Pebble, much appreciated and helpful. If I decide to do knack all and my rodent dies I’ll come back here and say he’s dead so that other people in the future know that it was the wrong call.

 

[Connie]

"If I decide to do knack all and my rodent dies I’ll come back here and say he’s dead so that other people in the future know that it was the wrong call."


Anybody with that attitude to a bigger animal would have it siezed by the RSPCA.

This will be my last post on this thread, as I'm finding your attitude very very distressing.

Your pet needs to see an experienced cavvy savvy vet which yours clearly isnt, please find one. Have your pet checked propperly. If it turns out to be an allergy stop being selfish and look into options to make your pets life bareable.

 

[gogoguineas]

Just stop neglecting the problem your animal has and take it to a good vet!
It's not going to go away, it needs looking into, any kind owner can see this grrrr

 

[Sue_P]

Blinkin’ rodent’s looking worser than ever. Had it out on the lawn on Saturday and it’s main dodgy eye was getting well milked. I’d wipe it and after a few minutes there was more milky stuff all over it again. Geesch, pets are such a pain in the *rse sometimes. Decided to take the thing to the vets again but he couldn’t say exactly what was wrong with it but ruled out tooth problems and said his eye looks perfectly healthy but said it’s lymph nodes are enlarged. He was prodding underneath it’s neck for quite a while cos it was squeaking away like it didn’t like being touched around that area. He said it’s lymph nodes were bigger than the other rodent’s so he figured there’s a problem there. Said he could send off a tear sample or stick a needle into a lymph node or take out its lymph nodes and send it away to a lab to be tested to see what’s proper wrong but sending stuff to the lab would cost £60. He reckons it’s probo a chronic infection and that if it was gonna turn into pneumonia it’d have happened by now. Said it could chlamydia or it could be cancerous or could be something else, can’t remember what he said now. Decided because of the cost that I’d try him with eye ointment first so I’ve got chloramphenicol, he didn’t have any eye drops in stock (surprise, surprise) so I got the ointment instead which is a b*gger to use. Can’t get the bloody stuff into his eyes, it ends up being around his eyes instead. Hope I’m getting enough in for it to try and actually work. He said we could try another anti-biotic if that don’t work, probably not baytril again cos he’s had that and that didn’t work but he warned that giving a range of antibiotics ain’t good as it can damage his immunity and then when we really do need a medication to work it won’t have no effect on him. So if the eye ointment don’t clear it I dunno what I’ll do next.

 

[Amanda1801]

So if the eye ointment don’t clear it I dunno what I’ll do next.

Maybe you should have taken him sooner before it got this serious?


In response to the people who are concerned about the welfare of the animals, Sue P likes to make threads and ignore advice. We just need to trust that she will do the right thing in the end. She has taken him to the vet now afterall, albeit potentially too late.

 

[gogoguineas]

That makes sense Amanda. Sadly. It's become quite apparent this person isn't interested in their animals welfare and more about cutting costs. If it were someone I knew of personally i'd have reported them long ago...>>>

 

[Connie]

It saddens me that a long term member of this forum is continually aloud to poo poo the idea of seeing a vet, or actually doing whats best for their animals.

 

[gogoguineas]

Just shows where there's no sense there's no feeling...

 

[NatalieMT]

Your post is so dismissive of this poor guinea pigs problems. You were the one that got him as a pet, that was your choice, I realise vet bills can be expensive but if you didn't want the commitment why set yourself up for it. If I had an eye problem I wouldn't hesitate to take myself to the doctors so why would it be different for my pets.

My guinea pig had a similar problem, the vet I saw said it was inflammation of his 3rd eyelid, luckily a course of eye drops called Tiacil resolved the problem. It did flare up once after that but again the same medication was prescribed and he's been fine ever since. I was advised the other way to completely solve the issue if it was to get worse was removal of the 3rd eyelid under GA. As Nemo is elderly at 6 1/2 that would be a last resort option.

Hopefully the ointment works for you, if not I'd be taking him back again to see what else can be done.