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How Fresh Does A Urine Sample Have To Be? Orange Urine

LozzyBee

LozzyBee

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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Hi,

Me again - with yet another possible problem...

One of the piggies is producing wee's like this

IMG_3050.webp IMG_3052.webp

The first picture, the rim isn't a different colour, but in the second it is. This could well be down to the newspaper though.

I am suspecting it is Barlo. I took him to the vets Fri and Sat as he has started squeaking when pooping. The vet took two conscious x rays, had another vet check him (and the x rays!) and couldn't find a thing (did pick up an ear infection). Interestingly, he apparently popped out three poops when the other vet examined him and didn't utter a word - nor did he squeak when the other vet examined him.

He is already on Baytril and Metronidazole long term for an infected salivary gland...so part of me is thinking if it is a form of UTI the antibiotics may cover it?

However, we are off to see Kim and Simon tomorrow anyway and I wondered if it was worth taking a urine sample with me? I have asked my usual vet to forward the details of Fri and Sat's appointments to Northampton, so they will be aware of it. I read that urine over 30 mins old is useless though? And my usual vet is nearly an hour away, and Kim and Simon are two and a half hours away :( I've tried a few closer ones but they're pretty clueless with piggies - sadly even the local exotic vet I don't rate much - completely missed Elvis' seriously overgrown teeth!
 
Ok, to update - Barlo's came out looking like this (excuse the poop...and everything else, just look at the wee!)
IMG_3056.webp

I'll have a go with Elvis later and see if he's the culprit...if not, do I just presume oxidisation? Just unusual as their diet hasn't changed and I've never noticed it before.
 
LozzyBee said:
Ok, to update - Barlo's came out looking like this (excuse the poop...and everything else, just look at the wee!)
View attachment 67477

I'll have a go with Elvis later and see if he's the culprit...if not, do I just presume oxidisation? Just unusual as their diet hasn't changed and I've never noticed it before.
Click to expand...

Hi

Please take a deep breath!

The pee puddles don't look like they are containing lots of blood to me; pee can have different shades depending on the veg you are feeding. They are just at different stages in the oxidisation process; which is characterised by orangy or rusty shades. The rim always goes darker the older the patch gets, but it is not a different, much more red colour than the inside of the puddle.
Blood is in my experience red or pink shades and distinctly different from oxidising urine.

The milky pee is a calcium pee and the natural way for piggies to excrete excess calcium. Nothing to worry about unless you see them daily or near daily.

If Kim or Simon need pee for a urine sample, they can express it there and then for testing. The fresher the urine, the more reliable the results. ;)
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Please take a deep breath!

The pee puddles don't look like they are containing lots of blood to me; pee can have different shades depending on the veg you are feeding. They are just at different stages in the oxidisation process; which is characterised by orangy or rusty shades. The rim always goes darker the older the patch gets, but it is not a different, much more red colour than the inside of the puddle.
Blood is in my experience red or pink shades and distinctly different from oxidising urine.

The milky pee is a calcium pee and the natural way for piggies to excrete excess calcium. Nothing to worry about unless you see them daily or near daily.

If Kim or Simon need pee for a urine sample, they can express it there and then for testing. The fresher the urine, the more reliable the results. ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! Honestly, at the moment there seems to be a new issue every week and I immediately go into overdrive and think 'what now?!' Lol!

I'll mention it tomorrow, and show the pictures and see what they say. I'll leave them be - had visions of sitting them in washing up bowls all day long waiting for them to pee!
 
Kim likes it if I can get a sample on the morning of the appointment but it's not a problem if you can't as they can express a sample at the appointment.

They like you to bring a sample because an expressed sample can have a tiny amount of blood in it because of the pressure used to make the pig pee
 
Jaycey said:
Kim likes it if I can get a sample on the morning of the appointment but it's not a problem if you can't as they can express a sample at the appointment.

They like you to bring a sample because an expressed sample can have a tiny amount of blood in it because of the pressure used to make the pig pee
Click to expand...

Ah! I will pop him in a Tupperware box while I'm getting ready in the morning and see if he does anything for me! I'm pretty sure it's him - the tissue I used to wipe him this morning turned the same orange colour when left for a bit, so I am presuming it's oxidisation...but coupled with this squeaking when he poops I'd rather be safe than sorry. Thank you
 
LozzyBee said:
Ah! I will pop him in a Tupperware box while I'm getting ready in the morning and see if he does anything for me! I'm pretty sure it's him - the tissue I used to wipe him this morning turned the same orange colour when left for a bit, so I am presuming it's oxidisation...but coupled with this squeaking when he poops I'd rather be safe than sorry. Thank you
Click to expand...

Clear urine can still contain an amazing amount of blood, so it is worth testing. Most people assume that blood is instantly visible, and it isn't.
 
To update...no blood in urine, but the urine did look quite thick to Kim and did show elevated levels of protein.

Kim has recommended a low calcium diet for him.

Still at a loss as to why he's squeaking when pooping. She said if it were her she would have not given him a conscious x Ray, and would have flushed his bladder when he was under. Understandably, she would prefer for me to go back to my original vet so that his care isn't split in two - he originally saw Kim because I suspected tooth/mouth issues that my other vet would only be able to deal with under GA. Now that that has been resolved, I will continue with my regular vet.

She did wonder if there's a spinal issue going on that wouldnt show up under x Ray. I can't really put in to words how frustrated I'm feeling...not angry, because it is what it is, and whatever is wrong is not obviously presenting itself which is making it difficult to diagnose...and I'm very frustrated with it all.

So, I guess the question now is - my usual vet (who I have heaps of faith in), has taken two conscious x rays, has seen him twice, has asked another vet in the practice to look at him and the x rays. Should I ask for a further x Ray from my usual with him under? Or do I just accept that it's possibly a spinal issue and continue with metacam and Zydol for pain relief?

Unfortunately money is now an issue - we have easily spent over £1000 in the past two months alone on their various issues. I'm so wary of spending more money unnecessarily. Please don't hate me for saying that - just being 100% honest! Sadly it's not like going to doctors several times to ask for a second opinion. I think my point is, that after being seen 4 times now by three vets, should I just continue as I am? Or try one final thing and then continue? My other issue with an X-ray under GA is that his health is so dodgy at the moment - his weight is up and down like a yo-yo (other unconnected issues - had an infected salivary gland, and then oral thrush) - I'm worried that a GA will finish him off and turn out to still be inconclusive anyway!

I'm asking questions that only I can answer really. Sorry...this has been a bit of a therapy session I think :soz:
 
LozzyBee said:
Ok, to update - Barlo's came out looking like this (excuse the poop...and everything else, just look at the wee!)
View attachment 67477

I'll have a go with Elvis later and see if he's the culprit...if not, do I just presume oxidisation? Just unusual as their diet hasn't changed and I've never noticed it before.
Click to expand...

25 Strips (5x5 Pack) - Urinalysis 10 Parameter Professional/GP Urine Test Sticks | eBay

With a sample like that in your photo , you could easily and cheaply test for blood and several other potential urine problems
 
LozzyBee said:
To update...no blood in urine, but the urine did look quite thick to Kim and did show elevated levels of protein.

Kim has recommended a low calcium diet for him.

Still at a loss as to why he's squeaking when pooping. She said if it were her she would have not given him a conscious x Ray, and would have flushed his bladder when he was under. Understandably, she would prefer for me to go back to my original vet so that his care isn't split in two - he originally saw Kim because I suspected tooth/mouth issues that my other vet would only be able to deal with under GA. Now that that has been resolved, I will continue with my regular vet.

She did wonder if there's a spinal issue going on that wouldnt show up under x Ray. I can't really put in to words how frustrated I'm feeling...not angry, because it is what it is, and whatever is wrong is not obviously presenting itself which is making it difficult to diagnose...and I'm very frustrated with it all.

So, I guess the question now is - my usual vet (who I have heaps of faith in), has taken two conscious x rays, has seen him twice, has asked another vet in the practice to look at him and the x rays. Should I ask for a further x Ray from my usual with him under? Or do I just accept that it's possibly a spinal issue and continue with metacam and Zydol for pain relief?

Unfortunately money is now an issue - we have easily spent over £1000 in the past two months alone on their various issues. I'm so wary of spending more money unnecessarily. Please don't hate me for saying that - just being 100% honest! Sadly it's not like going to doctors several times to ask for a second opinion. I think my point is, that after being seen 4 times now by three vets, should I just continue as I am? Or try one final thing and then continue? My other issue with an X-ray under GA is that his health is so dodgy at the moment - his weight is up and down like a yo-yo (other unconnected issues - had an infected salivary gland, and then oral thrush) - I'm worried that a GA will finish him off and turn out to still be inconclusive anyway!

I'm asking questions that only I can answer really. Sorry...this has been a bit of a therapy session I think :soz:
Click to expand...

I would see whether Kim's tips work, but as nothing has shown up in any examinations, scans and tests from several very competent vets, then it is unfortunately most likely that there really is nothing that is going to show up as things stand.
I know how frustrating your odyssey is for you and your poorly boy, but please accept that while medical care for guinea pigs (and all animals) has made huge strides in the last few years, it still has limits and will always have limits - the further you stretch out, the bigger the new horizons.
We all have to decide at which point we draw the line, especially now that advanced medical care is so expensive and can quickly cost you a fortune that not everybody has available or can sustain indefinitely. You have done your utmost to find the cause and find treatment; I know Kim as one of the most knowledgeable, careful and considerate diagnosticians. There is nothing your have to blame yourself or the vets you have seen for. :(

As long as your boy still has good quality of life, is happy and willing to eat, I would just concentrate on making his life a good one.
 
My bladder stone/sludge pig always showed his first signs of a problen by squeaking when pooping, but not peeing.

So a lower calcium diet sounds like a good plan of action to me.
 
Wiebke said:
I would see whether Kim's tips work, but as nothing has shown up in any examinations, scans and tests from several very competent vets, then it is unfortunately most likely that there really is nothing that is going to show up as things stand.
I know how frustrating your odyssey is for you and your poorly boy, but please accept that while medical care for guinea pigs (and all animals) has made huge strides in the last few years, it still has limits and will always have limits - the further you stretch out, the bigger the new horizons.
We all have to decide at which point we draw the line, especially now that advanced medical care is so expensive and can quickly cost you a fortune that not everybody has available or can sustain indefinitely. You have done your utmost to find the cause and find treatment; I know Kim as one of the most knowledgeable, careful and considerate diagnosticians. There is nothing your have to blame yourself or the vets you have seen for. :(

As long as your boy still has good quality of life, is happy and willing to eat, I would just concentrate on making his life a good one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying. Put like that, I do feel like I've currently exhausted all avenues. And I feel like the vets have done all they can as well - had my original vet not taken two conscious x rays on different days I'd say there's maybe an argument to go down the GA x Ray route, but given that he's had two, and she was happy with what she saw, AND that I really trust her (she advised me not to have him PTS and try changing meds a couple of wks back when I was convinced he'd had it - it worked a treat!), it seems pointless. Little Barlo has probably been inbred to within an inch of his life (he was originally from a rescue of 88 guinea pigs), so I imagine there's potential for there to be a whole host of things going on in addition to the ones we can see.

He seems fairly happy, he's currently squeaking for I don't know what, and he's still coming up to me for food first thing I the morning. He is a little cutie, just sadly he's had a whole host of issues recently.

I just want to do the best I can by him I guess, but that may well be accepting that for this particular issue, I can't do anymore...now I shall just wait until the next problem presents itself :help:
 
LozzyBee said:
Thanks for replying. Put like that, I do feel like I've currently exhausted all avenues. And I feel like the vets have done all they can as well - had my original vet not taken two conscious x rays on different days I'd say there's maybe an argument to go down the GA x Ray route, but given that he's had two, and she was happy with what she saw, AND that I really trust her (she advised me not to have him PTS and try changing meds a couple of wks back when I was convinced he'd had it - it worked a treat!), it seems pointless. Little Barlo has probably been inbred to within an inch of his life (he was originally from a rescue of 88 guinea pigs), so I imagine there's potential for there to be a whole host of things going on in addition to the ones we can see.

He seems fairly happy, he's currently squeaking for I don't know what, and he's still coming up to me for food first thing I the morning. He is a little cutie, just sadly he's had a whole host of issues recently.

I just want to do the best I can by him I guess, but that may well be accepting that for this particular issue, I can't do anymore...now I shall just wait until the next problem presents itself :help:
Click to expand...

I am very sorry; Barlo has certainly been very lucky to find you. Just keep him on a balanced low calcium diet and otherwise keep to his usual routine and enrichment that make him happy.

With guinea pigs like Barlo (or my Pili Pala, who is giving me major worries at the moment and who is from a similarly "every bit as bad as it gets" background like Barlo), all you can do is give them a happy life for as long as they have. It is that happiness that is the important bit and the fact that we try our best to spare them any unnecessary suffering that counts. We cannot undo their background and their genetic make-up, but we can make their lives worth living while in our care.
 
Barlo certainly was very lucky to find you, not many people would have done so much for him. Hope things settle down for him now.
 
@Wiebke sending lots of good vibes to your Pili Pala (love the name!). I honestly still find it mad how attached I have become to them, particularly these two as they were both terrible pickles when we first brought them home and there were points I wondered if I'd ever bond with either of them. That aside, it's always just been without question that we chose to have them, so we do all we can to take care of them. They're defenceless and completely in your hands to do right by them.

@piggieminder - I think all of our piggies are lucky to have found all of us. The fact we're on here in the first place, researching, asking for advice, helping others - they're all very lucky piggies :)
 
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