How Intelligent Are They Really?

[Jojessgaz]

OK. .. feel like I've posted the same sort of thread a few times but each time with a different question. I have two girls..1 year old. Had them since 3mths old. Tilly is boss... does anything for food but hates being picked up..if don't get her first time give up as she chatters n gets very grumpy. Flossy very timid. Shakes every time I hold her.. easier to pick up. Very very timid. Can't stroke her. Been making breakthrough with her. Stroked her nose other day without her hiding and she ate on my knee covered no shaking BUT tilly has become uncatchable. When I put flossy back Tilly went n lifted her chin telling her who's boss... probably cos she got food. I'm trying to stop tilly getting so grumpy at being picked up.. I does put me off.. stroke her nose loads piggie kisses keep her calm but as soon as I go to try n pick her up she runs n starts chattering. I then feel I've lost her trust. She is clued up and won't go in cosys even with food in..as soon as she feels me close to her back she runs. But I don't want to stop with flossy as I'm making progress

 

[Wiebke]

Hi! Have you considered trying the non-predator/guinea pig whispering approach?

You can see things either from your side and expect your guinea pigs to learn a completely new human-based language or you can do the learning and try to intuit things from the perspective of your guinea pigs to communicate by paying respect to their prey animal instincts and by using interactive body language that they will instinctively understand.

Please take the time to read through these guides here; you may find that they help you a lot!
How Do I Settle Shy New Guinea Pigs?
How To Understand Guinea Pig Instincts And Speak Piggy Body Language
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig

 

[helloitsbecca]

I have a baby blanket (cotton, not knitted) and I slooooooooowly place it over my piggies and then pick them up that way, usually after giving them some food to distract them. The blanket stops them from managing to run away as fast as they normally would and also makes it easier to physically hold on to them.

 

[Jojessgaz]

I have a baby blanket (cotton, not knitted) and I slooooooooowly place it over my piggies and then pick them up that way, usually after giving them some food to distract them. The blanket stops them from managing to run away as fast as they normally would and also makes it easier to physically hold on to them.

I had thought of putting something over her first but thought she would just run anyway. Thanks for that

 

[Jojessgaz]

Hi! Have you considered trying the non-predator/guinea pig whispering approach?

You can see things either from your side and expect your guinea pigs to learn a completely new human-based language or you can do the learning and try to intuit things from the perspective of your guinea pigs to communicate by paying respect to their prey animal instincts and by using interactive body language that they will instinctively understand.

Please take the time to read through these guides here; you may find that they help you a lot!
How Do I Settle Shy New Guinea Pigs?
How To Understand Guinea Pig Instincts And Speak Piggy Body Language
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig

Thanks wiebke I have read over these loads of times being a member for a while now. Always go in gentle but the trying to get her into a tunnel or cosy doesn't work and I was finding that when she was hiding under one if her boxes I could gently move my hand under her and lift but she's realised that space means I can get her so as soon as she knows I'm there she makes sure she isn't under that box. I would love to be the one to know and learn more about them but on all the videos and even the one on here really getting them into tubes they look so tame... they don't dart n dash like mine which I thought may come over time... I completely understand their instinct but if everything is sooo slow I thought she would realise now pick up meant food.

 

[Tiamolly123]

I don't know what you have got your guinea on. But my hamsters are also pains. So I whisper to them & pick up a hand of wood chips & just sprinkle it in front of them. Not to close & they've come to me every time.

 

[ChloeCee98]

Thanks wiebke I have read over these loads of times being a member for a while now. Always go in gentle but the trying to get her into a tunnel or cosy doesn't work and I was finding that when she was hiding under one if her boxes I could gently move my hand under her and lift but she's realised that space means I can get her so as soon as she knows I'm there she makes sure she isn't under that box. I would love to be the one to know and learn more about them but on all the videos and even the one on here really getting them into tubes they look so tame... they don't dart n dash like mine which I thought may come over time... I completely understand their instinct but if everything is sooo slow I thought she would realise now pick up meant food.

One of my guineapigs noodle is exactly the same! It's a chore tbh to try and pick her up! She was making progress but now she just doesn't like it. But my other two they love being cuddled so I think it just depends on the personality. Also Noodle is only a baba still so she just loves running and playing and pretending to be boss Lol x

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks wiebke I have read over these loads of times being a member for a while now. Always go in gentle but the trying to get her into a tunnel or cosy doesn't work and I was finding that when she was hiding under one if her boxes I could gently move my hand under her and lift but she's realised that space means I can get her so as soon as she knows I'm there she makes sure she isn't under that box. I would love to be the one to know and learn more about them but on all the videos and even the one on here really getting them into tubes they look so tame... they don't dart n dash like mine which I thought may come over time... I completely understand their instinct but if everything is sooo slow I thought she would realise now pick up meant food.

All those videos and pictures online are unfortunately not representative; it is a similar thing with illness - online you get all those stories where things go horribly wrong, from antibiotics to operations, but not the majority where there is a problem-free recovery.
They give you a false picture as nobody posts pictures and videos of all those piggies that DO NOT like being picked up and cuddled!

Truth is that the majority of piggies don't like being picked up and will never come to really enjoy it as it cuts too close to their prey animal instincts. You can get them to eventually tolerate it - the best way is by offering a little bit of their favourite veg at the back of their pick-up convenience, which you will then have to count towards their daily diet.

If you give your piggies the choice, why should they really enjoy being picked up and pawed all over by a huge predator-smelling animal? It takes time to get them used to it and to make it worth it with a nice reward and piggy style affection.
Guinea pigs are not born as natural cuddlers. They are born with the instinct to be docile so a predator who wants to play with their prey first loses interest quickly and gives them a chance to survive. When you look at the body language and especially the white rimmed eyes, a lot of those piggies don't necessarily look relaxed and happy. But it takes a lot of experience to be able to tell the difference.

Just be patient. Trust is not something that develops quickly. Be lavish with praise and rewards, so your piggies can look forward to that. They are not stupid and they work out fairly quickly where there is a trap or where there is a reward. They have a also got a very complex social interactive behaviour and system which is well worth watching and observing, as it opens up a new world.

You are now at the stage where your piggies trust you enough to start telling you about there true feelings. It always feels like a huge step backwards whereas it is a huge step forward.

I am very sorry if you got your piggies on the premise that were they living cuddly toys.

 

[Jojessgaz]

One of my guineapigs noodle is exactly the same! It's a chore tbh to try and pick her up! She was making progress but now she just doesn't like it. But my other two they love being cuddled so I think it just depends on the personality. Also Noodle is only a baba still so she just loves running and playing and pretending to be boss Lol x

That's just how I feel... and I do feel guilty feeling.. oh dear I've got to go try and pick her up.. my hearts going ten to the dozen so I have to sit n watch them first ... or get the shy one out first who just hides in cosy n really sits there while I get her ... and I feel calm n love trying to stroke her a tiny bit while she eats feeling a huge sense of achievement if she doesn't shiver but if she does.. try and calm her down. How do you get noodle then? I could cope I think with the little bit of darting about and poss getting her into an area where I can get her... but she after the first try really chatters back at me while hiding and it's that almost nasty feel I get ... I know it's instinct. .. but it still feels like a dog growling n showing its Teath at u..that u think ...plse don't be nasty I do all I can for you and just want to love and take care of you. If I had hurt them I would understand more

 

[Jojessgaz]

All those videos and pictures online are unfortunately not representative; it is a similar thing with illness - online you get all those stories where things go horribly wrong, from antibiotics to operations, but not the majority where there is a problem-free recovery.
They give you a false picture as nobody posts pictures and videos of all those piggies that DO NOT like being picked up and cuddled!

Truth is that the majority of piggies don't like being picked up and will never come to really enjoy it as it cuts too close to their prey animal instincts. You can get them to eventually tolerate it - the best way is by offering a little bit of their favourite veg at the back of their pick-up convenience, which you will then have to count towards their daily diet.

If you give your piggies the choice, why should they really enjoy being picked up and pawed all over by a huge predator-smelling animal? It takes time to get them used to it and to make it worth it with a nice reward and piggy style affection.
Guinea pigs are not born as natural cuddlers. They are born with the instinct to be docile so a predator who wants to play with their prey first loses interest quickly and gives them a chance to survive. When you look at the body language and especially the white rimmed eyes, a lot of those piggies don't necessarily look relaxed and happy. But it takes a lot of experience to be able to tell the difference.

Just be patient. Trust is not something that develops quickly. Be lavish with praise and rewards, so your piggies can look forward to that. They are not stupid and they work out fairly quickly where there is a trap or where there is a reward. They have a also got a very complex social interactive behaviour and system which is well worth watching and observing, as it opens up a new world.

You are now at the stage where your piggies trust you enough to start telling you about there true feelings. It always feels like a huge step backwards whereas it is a huge step forward.

I am very sorry if you got your piggies on the premise that were they living cuddly toys.

Yes I do have to admit that the usual did happen where your told that guinea pigs are loveable cuddly creatures great for young kids .. much better than rabbits or hamsters I was told ,
I would be quite happy not picking her up at all but for health checks and cleaning if I new that would make her happier as she loves me stroking her nose and is always there asking for food, but I thought that
the more I picked her up and had lap time ... which she tolerates ok with food ... the more used to me she would get
would you say that's true and that you do need to keep up the handling ? they are both long haired so I have to cut coats
every 10days of so as they hate brushing so we just keep up a quick trim , its easier than brushing every day although I have just ordered
some pet clippers for the summer when they go back outside to keep their coats shorter... especially hers which is thicker
than any other Peruvians I have seen its like a rug !
I just want to give them a good home but feel my fear and lack of knowledge is holding us all back .... I feel so silly with them being tiny guinea pigs but they are hard to read when you havnt much experience

 

[ChloeCee98]

That's just how I feel... and I do feel guilty feeling.. oh dear I've got to go try and pick her up.. my hearts going ten to the dozen so I have to sit n watch them first ... or get the shy one out first who just hides in cosy n really sits there while I get her ... and I feel calm n love trying to stroke her a tiny bit while she eats feeling a huge sense of achievement if she doesn't shiver but if she does.. try and calm her down. How do you get noodle then? I could cope I think with the little bit of darting about and poss getting her into an area where I can get her... but she after the first try really chatters back at me while hiding and it's that almost nasty feel I get ... I know it's instinct. .. but it still feels like a dog growling n showing its Teath at you..that you think ...plse don't be nasty I do all I can for you and just want to love and take care of you. If I had hurt them I would understand more

If I really can't pick noodle up I wait a day or a few hours and I get my boyfriends mam to come over it sounds really silly but I just can't get her. I don't want her to get stressed and I don't want to drop her either! I think from years of having hamsters I am a bit scared incase I do end up being bitten! But my other two piggys aren't bothered tbh! There's always a little chase just because they're skitty by nature. I feel exactly the same as you lol, as if your really threatening to them and causing them loads of stress Which I hate as I love all three dearly!

Sometimes it's once Noodle is in the run that's the problem, I also have stairs up into their room and carrying them in a hidey isn't the best when going up the stairs :/

I just sit next to the cage and keep my hand in there try and stroke them all when they come to me and just hope it helps make progress!

 

[Freela]

My experience is that most guinea pigs will never love being picked up, even the ones that do like being held. Even when they are used to it, things will come up that make them unhappy about it again (my extremely placid 2-year-old pig, Hadley, is just now coming off of a long course of antibiotics- she has now decided to run like hell when I approach because she has decided I might be giving her medicine again.) So it's not an indictment of you if they continue to run when you pick them up... it's very much an inborn reaction that would keep them alive in the wild and it's very hard to overwrite the natural programming that keeps you from being eaten. It's kind of the same as trying to break a dog of a natural behavior, like teaching a dog bred for hunting not to chase prey, or teaching a retriever not to chew or put everything in their mouth- it's very hard to get them to stop, because those tendencies have been bred into them for generations. It's behavior that is programmed at a genetic level in even the most mild-mannered guinea pig, so to a certain degree you have to accept that it is what it is. I would keep on handling them, even if it's slightly stressful for everyone, because it's a behavior that may never completely go away, and a lot of guinea pigs do enjoy lap time, even if they don't particularly like the feeling of being 'caught.'

I would also add that it really isn't about intelligence or an inability to learn. They actually might be easier to catch if they were LESS intelligent, they are smart enough to remember past experiences which makes them harder and harder to trick into a cozy to be picked up, for instance. They are learning... but not always what we want them to learn! Instinctive behaviors exist somewhat apart from intelligence... we once had a very bright herding dog who would herd inanimate objects if given the chance (we used to give her yoga balls- she would 'round them up' into a clump.) I'm sure she was bright enough to know that these balls were not sheep, but it gave her the opportunity to practice an instinctive behavior that was genetically imprinted on her to carry out. Like I said above, instincts come from thousands of years of evolution and the survival instinct is the strongest one animals have. My experience is that my guinea pigs are pretty clued into their environment, very capable of forming associations and predicting future actions (they will anticipate food if they hear familiar noises like crinkling bags or fridge doors opening), and capable of communicating their needs to the human caregivers. However, at the end of the day they are guinea pigs and behave like guinea pigs! So a certain amount of skittishness is just part of the package.

 

[Tiamolly123]

I don't know what you have got your guinea on. But my hamsters are also pains. So I whisper to them & pick up a hand of wood chips & just sprinkle it in front of them. Not to close & they've come to me every time.

I'd love to know why the sawdust works, the only thing I can think of it's curiosity

 

[Jojessgaz]

My experience is that most guinea pigs will never love being picked up, even the ones that do like being held. Even when they are used to it, things will come up that make them unhappy about it again (my extremely placid 2-year-old pig, Hadley, is just now coming off of a long course of antibiotics- she has now decided to run like hell when I approach because she has decided I might be giving her medicine again.) So it's not an indictment of you if they continue to run when you pick them up... it's very much an inborn reaction that would keep them alive in the wild and it's very hard to overwrite the natural programming that keeps you from being eaten. It's kind of the same as trying to break a dog of a natural behavior, like teaching a dog bred for hunting not to chase prey, or teaching a retriever not to chew or put everything in their mouth- it's very hard to get them to stop, because those tendencies have been bred into them for generations. It's behavior that is programmed at a genetic level in even the most mild-mannered guinea pig, so to a certain degree you have to accept that it is what it is. I would keep on handling them, even if it's slightly stressful for everyone, because it's a behavior that may never completely go away, and a lot of guinea pigs do enjoy lap time, even if they don't particularly like the feeling of being 'caught.'

I would also add that it really isn't about intelligence or an inability to learn. They actually might be easier to catch if they were LESS intelligent, they are smart enough to remember past experiences which makes them harder and harder to trick into a cozy to be picked up, for instance. They are learning... but not always what we want them to learn! Instinctive behaviors exist somewhat apart from intelligence... we once had a very bright herding dog who would herd inanimate objects if given the chance (we used to give her yoga balls- she would 'round them up' into a clump.) I'm sure she was bright enough to know that these balls were not sheep, but it gave her the opportunity to practice an instinctive behavior that was genetically imprinted on her to carry out. Like I said above, instincts come from thousands of years of evolution and the survival instinct is the strongest one animals have. My experience is that my guinea pigs are pretty clued into their environment, very capable of forming associations and predicting future actions (they will anticipate food if they hear familiar noises like crinkling bags or fridge doors opening), and capable of communicating their needs to the human caregivers. However, at the end of the day they are guinea pigs and behave like guinea pigs! So a certain amount of skittishness is just part of the package.

the heading to this post I was suppose to elaborate on..... that I do believe them to be very intelligent and was hoping that tilly would
learn from flossy the timid one that being picked up and fed isn't that bad ... and that if she then didn't get a treat it was because she wasn't allowing me to pick her up .... but I got a bit sidetracked and carried away and never got to that point ! haha
I have seen that as Tilly the boss lets me stroke her nose all the time that flossy the timid one now comes over to see if I am actually feeding her and she is missing out ... and for the first time last week she also let me stroke her nose for a few seconds ... a huge
breakthrough for her ... it hasn't happened since but she will allow me to stroke her nose on my lap while eating where as
before she would try and shake me off or but her head up to say get off
I really do think my issue here that I am going to have to get over is the chattering at me, its very intimidating ... which is why she
does it obviously to warn me off ... its only started happening now as she knows me and is telling me
in her language to back off, I know that if I don't get her first time there is no hope at all and that adds to the pressure
the other I don't think would ever show any aggression .... she is so gentle and timid and that gives me added courage that I can
get her with no great resistance , though they are indoors now and once they are back in their hutch outside there is just too many
places for them both to hide I don't know how I am going to get on ! I may never see them again !

 

[Freela]

the heading to this post I was suppose to elaborate on..... that I do believe them to be very intelligent and was hoping that tilly would
learn from flossy the timid one that being picked up and fed isn't that bad ... and that if she then didn't get a treat it was because she wasn't allowing me to pick her up .... but I got a bit sidetracked and carried away and never got to that point ! haha
I have seen that as Tilly the boss lets me stroke her nose all the time that flossy the timid one now comes over to see if I am actually feeding her and she is missing out ... and for the first time last week she also let me stroke her nose for a few seconds ... a huge
breakthrough for her ... it hasn't happened since but she will allow me to stroke her nose on my lap while eating where as
before she would try and shake me off or but her head up to say get off
I really do think my issue here that I am going to have to get over is the chattering at me, its very intimidating ... which is why she
does it obviously to warn me off ... its only started happening now as she knows me and is telling me
in her language to back off, I know that if I don't get her first time there is no hope at all and that adds to the pressure
the other I don't think would ever show any aggression .... she is so gentle and timid and that gives me added courage that I can
get her with no great resistance , though they are indoors now and once they are back in their hutch outside there is just too many
places for them both to hide I don't know how I am going to get on ! I may never see them again !

LOL! They are smart, just not always learning what we hope they will learn! I have had very bold piggies who are very comfortable with people and very nervous piggies that were less comfortable. Your more anxious pig may never be as laid back being handled, but with time and patience she should improve over time. I've had some lap pigs that would basically stretch out and go to sleep on our laps, but I've also had some pigs who, although friendly, never would lay down, certainly would never sleep, and would sit for awhile and then be done with us. Some of it is just down to personality!