How long can piggies survive without veg? (Hypothetical situation)

[AbraCassandra]

So a concern I've had for a bit since the pandemic happened has been "What if our store and the stores around us run out of fresh veggies?" They ran out of TP but that happened everywhere. But it did make me wonder...My husband and I have been slowly building up a stockpile of supplies for the two of us. Canned goods, dry goods, fuel sources etc but it's difficult when it comes to the piggies. We have two emergency carriers for them along with plenty of hay, Oxbow pellets, forage mixes and vitamin c tablets BUT we cannot just save up veggies. My completely hypothetical question is, in the worst possible situation, with vitamin c tablets, forage mix, hay and pellets, how long can they be OK without access to fresh veggies? Are there perhaps frozen ones that have no added seasonings in them that are something we could stockpile for them? Or even dried veggies? In the very off chance (doubt it'll ever happen although we HAVE been snowed in for a couple days without power) that our local small mountain store runs out of veggies and we cannot find them anywhere else?

Discuss.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Their main diet is hay so as long as you never run out of that, then they will be ok without veggies for a couple of days
They must never eat frozen veg though. Dried veg is also not appropriate replacement.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

if they are getting vitamin C from elsewhere and never run out of hay then there is no immediate danger to them and they could in theory survive for a long time. Fresh veg has benefits other than vit C tho so I would expect that never feeding any again would shorten their life span.

Frozen and tinned veg must never be fed as these processes alter them and if fed are likely to cause (fatal) bloat.

If you had no access to veg a time of year without snow on the ground you could forage for fresh grass and safe weeds to feed them.

Hopefully your worst case scenario will never happen

 

[Swissgreys]

Hay and fresh grass provide pretty much all the Vit C they need.
If you are in an area where it is possible to collect fresh grass or forage, plus you have hay and pellets I don't think you really have anything to worry about.
'Technically' they can actually survive perfectly well with good hay/grass and pellets for an indefinite period of time.

How they would feel about no veggies is another matter entirely

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

Hay and fresh grass are the mainstay of any diet (it should make around 80% of the daily food intake and is crucial for dental, gut, long term health and boosting the life span) and the one food that guinea pigs can't do without in a pinch. I would strongly recommend that you always order more before starting the last bag and that you invest in good quality hay - that is the most important budget post in a piggy diet.
A Comprehensive Hay Guide for Guinea Pigs (incl. providers in several countries)

Veg is just the replacement for the forage with which guinea pigs would naturally supplement their diet; you can in a pinch forage yourself, as long as what you feed is washed and dog pee-free.
Any veg should ideally be green and leafy and comprise herbs like cilantro/coriander etc. which you can grow yourself in a window box or a pot rather than high sugary foods like carrots and fruit, which should never be more than an occasional special treat. Cut and grow lettuce is also easy to grow in a window box or two if you struggle with supplies and would like to have something in reserve at home.
With my many piggies I have had to improvise a lot during the first lockdown when supplies of fresh veg (especially many of their staple veg) and especially peppers were very unreliable for several weeks, and there is only so much fresh grass on my rather small lawn. I always make sure that I have some extra pepper, cucumber and plain lettuce in reserve to last me a couple of days longer than our planned next shop so I have time to reorganise in a pinch.
What is a big no no are any processed veg from the freezer or out of tins because they are part cooked.

Your piggies can also do without pellets; this is the food that can be easily dropped by just feeding more good quality hay or by supplementing with some speciality hays or dry forage. It should never make more than 1 tablespoon per piggy per day max. Compared to hay, pellets contain a lot more fillers and a lot less fibre; even the timothy based ones.

You can find out a lot more about diet as a whole and each food group in particular in our comprehensive diet guide, which looks at all aspects.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[AbraCassandra]

Awesome answers, peeps! Thank you! It's a load off my mind for sure. If the worst were to happen, I've got plenty of hay, vitamin c tablets, pellets and forage mix to last them months (if they needed). We live in the mountains and we never ever use pesticides on our grasses because that'd be very bad for our local wildlife. We have ground squirrels, moles, wood chucks etc etc who eat the greens we have so it's good to know they can eat that and I just so happen to be lucky to have a front yard that grows wild miner's lettuce every single year in spring and summer. I even foraged some of it for them last year and they loved it. I think it has a lot of vitamins for them as well? Anyways thank you all! I shall stockpile more for them (just in case) and have an eased mind for my precious babies.

 

[Wiebke]

Awesome answers, peeps! Thank you! It's a load off my mind for sure. If the worst were to happen, I've got plenty of hay, vitamin c tablets, pellets and forage mix to last them months (if they needed). We live in the mountains and we never ever use pesticides on our grasses because that'd be very bad for our local wildlife. We have ground squirrels, moles, wood chucks etc etc who eat the greens we have so it's good to know they can eat that and I just so happen to be lucky to have a front yard that grows wild miner's lettuce every single year in spring and summer. I even foraged some of it for them last year and they loved it. I think it has a lot of vitamins for them as well? Anyways thank you all! I shall stockpile more for them (just in case) and have an eased mind for my precious babies.

Hi!

You won't need vitamin C if you keep your piggies on hay and grass - they provide enough vitamin C. In nearly 15 years of existence we have very rarely had to deal with deficiency cases in well kept guinea pigs - and this considering that we have had tens of thousands of piggies pass through this forum over this time span.

In those cases we were confronted with scurvy, they were pretty much all piggies of people who overdosed on a long term basis resulting in their piggies becoming used to abnormally high vitamin C levels; barring the odd piggy rescued from a neglect/wong diet situation. If these high levels dropped for some reason (like illness etc.), they would result in scurvy symptoms despite vitamin C levels still being higher than normal.

Vitamin C 2-3 weeks boosters have a role to play in illness or bad stress recovery; they are much more effective when you use them only short term and only when there is a real need for them because the body will make optimum use of them.

I would still recommend to aim to feed some veg but if you are living out in the country, it is good to know that you can provide on your own. Make sure that you have plenty of hay in winter, especially if you are in area where roads can easily become unpassable.

Otherwise, your biggest enemy will be extreme heat and fires. Guinea pigs can die from heat stroke or heat exhaustion. Hot Weather Management, Heat Strokes and Fly Strike

You may also find our one stop emergency, crisis and bridging care information helpful; it contains tips for a first aid kit and support feeding care amongst other practical advice. Since guinea pigs are small prey animals with a very fast metabolism that will only show symptoms when they can no longer suppress them, you want to make sure that you have some basic support stuff at home to have a chance at keeping them alive until you can access vet care and until any medication kicks in.
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

You can find these guides in our New Owners guide collection link, which makes a very helpful information resource as it is one of the most comprehensive around, but it won't hurt to bookmark all these links so you can easily find them when you need information in a hurry; especially as our UK day time hours differ from yours and we may not be immediately around.
Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

 

[AbraCassandra]

Hi!

You won't need vitamin C if you keep your piggies on hay and grass - they provide enough vitamin C. In nearly 15 years of existence we have very rarely had to deal with deficiency cases in well kept guinea pigs - and this considering that we have had tens of thousands of piggies pass through this forum over this time span.

In those cases we were confronted with scurvy, they were pretty much all piggies of people who overdosed on a long term basis resulting in their piggies becoming used to abnormally high levels, barring the odd piggy rescued from a neglect/wong diet situation. If these high levels dropped for some reason (like illness etc.), the would result in scurvy symptoms despite vitamin C levels still being higher than normal.

Vitamin C 2-3 weeks boosters have a role to play in illness or bad stress recovery; they are much more effective when you use them only short term and only when there is a real need for them because the body will make optimum use of them.

I would still recommend to aim to feed some veg but if you are living out in the country, it is good to know that you can provide on your own. Make sure that you have plenty of hay in winter, especially if you are in area where roads can easily become unpassable.

Very good info thanks! I feed my fur son and daughter (separate cages) half a bell pepper and either half a head of romaine or green leaf lettuce a day. Every few days I'll substitute the bell pepper for something else like a hand full of cilantro, half a cucumber, a few baby carrots etc. I do give them a vitamin c tablet every few days (used to be one a day) but I'll back off of it. I've had my girl for almost 7 years now, her sister recently passed away from advanced stage cancer : ( my boy, I've had for almost 3 years now. He goes nuts for cilantro.

 

[Wiebke]

Very good info thanks! I feed my fur son and daughter (separate cages) half a bell pepper and either half a head of romaine or green leaf lettuce a day. Every few days I'll substitute the bell pepper for something else like a hand full of cilantro, half a cucumber, a few baby carrots etc. I do give them a vitamin c tablet every few days (used to be one a day) but I'll back off of it. I've had my girl for almost 7 years now, her sister recently passed away from advanced stage cancer : ( my boy, I've had for almost 3 years now. He goes nuts for cilantro.

Hi!

Please reduce the veg intake as you are feeding far too much lettuce but rather introduce fresh herbs for trace elements and a slice of cucumber daily. I get about 6-10 slices of pepper out of one pepper (I go through about 3-4 peppers, 1 romaine lettuce, 1-2 cucumbers and a pack of cilantro/fresh coriander herb daily for my own 27 piggies).
Our diet guide contains a picture of a sample diet.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[AbraCassandra]

Hi!

Please reduce the veg intake as you are feeding far too much lettuce but rather introduce fresh herbs for trace elements and a slice of cucumber daily. I get about 6-10 slices of pepper out of one pepper (I go through about 3-4 peppers, 1 romaine lettuce, 1-2 cucumbers and a pack of cilantro/fresh coriander herb daily for my own 27 piggies).
Our diet guide contains a picture of a sample diet.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Oh wow that's such a huge difference to how I've been feeding them. I feed them how I do because my girl will start screaming and begging for food all the time so when I give her enough lettuce to last her the day she stays quiet. And my boy likes having his pellet bowl full constantly or he tips it over in protest. This is gonna be a difficult change for them both : ( Both my babies are special needs and were abused before I got them. My girls almost 7 and was deaf with neurological issues when I adopted her and her sister (who had the same issues) because the pet store didn't treat an ear infection they had for a long time until they had a permanent head tilt. My boy is hard too because when I adopted him, he was already 6 months old and his ex owners had neglected him badly and he only lived on pellets, never had veggies and they gave him fruit every week...(yea I know) not to mention the cage they had him in wasn't even big enough for a syrian hamster and had two inches on black mold underneath the PINE BEDDING (big no no) because instead of changing the bedding out they just kept adding new to the top... so he's a pellet addict and is finally getting used to eating more veggies after 3 years of work but will still completely revolt if his bowl is empty. I just want to spoil them after all they've been through.

 

[Siikibam]

You can spoil them by giving them different types of hay and the occasional herb thrown in. But over feeding on pellets isn’t good. They’re the chocolate of the piggy world and can lead to a lot calcium in the diet and unhealthy weight gain. It’s good if he’s used to eating veg now. Portion as you should and no more.

As for your girl, she is used to it so may wheek for more for a while. But you have to be strong. Everytime she does, just fluff up the hay or top it up. But don’t give her any more lettuce. She will eventually get used to it. And your boy will get used to less pellets as well. I’d advise you to take the bowl out once he’s finished them. They should only have a tablespoon each per day.

 

[Wiebke]

Oh wow that's such a huge difference to how I've been feeding them. I feed them how I do because my girl will start screaming and begging for food all the time so when I give her enough lettuce to last her the day she stays quiet. And my boy likes having his pellet bowl full constantly or he tips it over in protest. This is gonna be a difficult change for them both : ( Both my babies are special needs and were abused before I got them. My girls almost 7 and was deaf with neurological issues when I adopted her and her sister (who had the same issues) because the pet store didn't treat an ear infection they had for a long time until they had a permanent head tilt. My boy is hard too because when I adopted him, he was already 6 months old and his ex owners had neglected him badly and he only lived on pellets, never had veggies and they gave him fruit every week...(yea I know) not to mention the cage they had him in wasn't even big enough for a syrian hamster and had two inches on black mold underneath the PINE BEDDING (big no no) because instead of changing the bedding out they just kept adding new to the top... so he's a pellet addict and is finally getting used to eating more veggies after 3 years of work but will still completely revolt if his bowl is empty. I just want to spoil them after all they've been through.

Please be aware that a grass hay and not veg/pellet based diet means overall better health and can really make a difference in the life span. Several of my adoptees from big rescue intakes from horrible surroundings have been amongst the longest lived or the longest lived of all their mates over the years and have lived a perfectly normal long life span of 6-8 years if there weren't any genetic issues lurking.

That is not a coincidence anymore after this happening repeatedly from at least 3 different intakes - and I am currently working on my 4th record with sisters Mererid and Mowenna due to celebrate their 7th birthday in a month's time. Something that none of us ever expected, considering the long term inbreeding hellhole posing as a sanctuary (a case that actually ended up in court and with a conviction) their highly pregnant mother and sister were rescued from in a really bad state. Morwenna was only 40g at birth (which is about as small as they get to have a survival chance) and needed additional support as a baby.

It is really worth making the shift, even if you do it gradually by feeding a little less with every passing day; especially when you can replace the lettuce gradually with fresh grass and forage in the coming months, which is a lot more nutritious than lettuce. You should also have much less of a risk of serious bloat or other potential gut issues that are caused by dysbiosis - overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria in the gut due to their diet.
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time
Who is the boss - your guinea pig or you?

Instead of spoiling them with overfeeding, turn feeding time into enrichment and fun time which is something both of you will enjoy and will give them a lot more interest and mental training if they have to work to get at their food or if they have to come to you in different places over a distance to get their food in small bits. The more hay and grass they eat, the better - rather vary your hay varieties instead as a treat.
Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

 

[Betsy]

I now scatter feed my piggies ration of pellets every day rather than have them eat it out of a bowl. The girls are really loving this arrangement and run around excitedly trying to find the pellets. I should have done this years ago.

 

[Wiebke]

Encouraging natural foraging behaviours is a great enrichment; you are spoiling your piggies much more by challenging them to exercise all their facilities to the full. The more closely you can keep the diet to a natural one and rather create treats from speciality hays, a little freeze dried readigrass (not too much as it is very rich but if you live in a 'horsey' area, it should be easily available), dry and fresh forage, the better for them to lead an active and healthy life - and the more fun you will have along the way in creating all those wonderful special memories that will stay with you for the rest of your life.

Guinea pigs are so much more than animated cuddly toys; they love to explore and wreck things they can get away with in the process. By allowing them to explore, be naughty and use their food and feeding time to discover their cleverness and their full personalities, you interact with your piggies in a much more ecompassing way on so many more levels. They are big and fascinating personalities, and there is a whole piggy world waiting for you to be discovered.