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Dental How To Encourage Gp To Eat Veg After Dental Surgery?

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StormyMidnight

Junior Guinea Pig
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Stormy had her two bottom incisors out on Tuesday, following a week of not eating anything other than Recovery mush (she had been trying to pick up veg but giving up, unable to shred it into her mouth.shaving overgrown front and back teeth didn't improve matters, and then the specialist discovered the bottom incisors were painful and loose and had to be removed). She has been fed on Oxbow Critical Care ever since too. She was at the specialist vet's for two nights after surgery while they waited for her to be pooing enough to come home (as she didn't poo the first day), and she's continued to poo (smaller pellets than normal but slowly getting bigger). She is on 2 types of painkillers, two types of antibiotics, and a gut stimulant atm. The vet said that she should at some point learn to scoop tiny bits of veg (e.g. grated) into her mouth with her top incisors, to then chew with her back teeth, and small bits of hay, but that he's also known piggies to suck hay in like spaghetti! Stormy is showing no sign at all of trying to do any of that yet, although she does come and sniff about at the veg so seems interested in it (I put a plate down for her at normal veg time, morning & evening, but am thinking of offering more often now). Right up to the teeth being taken out, she was still trying to pick up veg but giving up. She's not even trying to do that now. I was wondering how long it might be before she does try pick it up again, and how to encourage her? She's presumably still in a lot of pain, and her mouth has changed a lot (!) so it's understandable I guess. Should I try and spoon feed some veg into her to get her more interested/to realise she can chew and eat it maybe (I've heard of GPs being too scared to after such an ordeal)? I just tried putting a bit of grated veg onto the end of a knife (not a sharp one!) to put into her mouth the way I do the syringe but it just kept falling off too easily before getting it in, and when I did manage it all came out again when I pulled the knife away (like she spat it out).

Critical care feeding is going well all things considered. So time consuming and she's not all that happy about it, but I am getting about 10-12 ml at a time (5-6 times a day) down her. She's also lapping water from a bowl occasionally. Her weight is stable so far since surgery... (she's lost nearly 15g since this all started two weeks ago, she's 858g today).

Any tips as to how to feed her the veg would be welcome!
 
What painkillers is she on?
 
You need to keep up with the critical care, maybe add in a mushed up pellet mix too to get a change of taste into here. Science recovery is also worth adding into the syringe feed mix. CC is great though as it has fibre in it what she will be missing form the hay. Her weight is stable so you are doing a great job, her mouth is going to be really sore. Getting a piggy to eat again after dentals can be hard in ordinary dental work let alone after teeth removal.

As for veg it needs to be in tiny pieces and thing like carrot in tiny shredded strips

I am tagging in @Wiebke @Jaycey @helen105281 @Abi_nurse @Freela @Pound Shilling & Pig @Elwickcavies

Whereabouts are you located?

There is a dental sanctuary in Northampton @furryfriends (TEAS) runs it but is off forum. I would advise messaging her on their facebook page for advice The Excellent Adventure Sanctuary (for guinea pigs with extra needs)
 
Thank you! She is on Loxicom (2 x 0.3ml of the 1.5mg/ml one) and Tramadol (2x 0.1ml). Antibiotics are Metronidzole and Marbocyl, gut stimulant is Cisapride. So, she is a little dopier than usual understandably, but not hugely so. I'm sure she must be feeling pretty miserable and sore though. :( She spends her whole time sat in a hut apart from when I'm feeding her, with the odd brief wander of the cage. I have her in with the other piggies for periods of time, but have also kept her separate (during the night, as now and then another piggy will bother her so I need to play mediator!, and for a couple of hours in the day) in order to keep an eye on her poo easily.

Yep keeping up with the CC for as long as it takes... We have check up on Friday with the specialist assuming all is "well" till then, and it's then that he'll probably reduce the meds, apparently. He didn't really say how long he expected it to be before she'll happily try eating on her own.

I have been putting a plate of veg at normal veg time (morning & evening, when the others have theirs too) such as tiny grated carrot, cucumber, green pepper, chicory, (she always LOVED chicory), and I've been able to chop kale and curly leaf parsley super tiny (the shapes of the leaves are perfect for that!) but as I said, she just sniffs about at it for a minute or two and then loses interest. What I'm wondering is whether I should try spooning a little into her mouth or something, to see if it whets her appetite, and any tips as to how to do that?! It's not like sticking a syringe in...
With regards to hay, there is lots of hay always in the cage(s), I'm not sure whether to chop some up really tiny as well, put in a bowl maybe, in the hope that she'll try and eat some of that too?!

We are in London, our specialist who did the work & who we are seeing again on Friday are C.J. Hall in Richmond.
 
What about puréed veggies as you would do for a baby until she gets the hang of eating the grated veggies?
 
I am so you and her are going through it. Good set of pain relief there thank goodness and the gut stim will be helping push things through.

All you can do is keep offering her the veg maybe hold tiny bits up to her mouth when she is out. It took us one week to get one of our girls to eat again after a dental so syringe feeding is the way to go to keep her strength up. He mouth is goign to be really sore at moment, still early days after the work has been done.

Have you tried a little watermelon? We have had success with it in past as a tempter
 
Sending Stormy lots of love and healing vibes
 
I usually give them a selection of shredded veg and veg cut into small cubes.

Also I find with pigs, even healthy pigs, handfed veg is always better than veg they have to pick up themselves. They'll sometimes eat veg that they've been walking over if I pick it up and hand it to them.

I'd recommend some probiotics too, something like Fibreplex is great. Pigs don't always like it but it's really good for them.
 
Thanks everyone :) I will try to offer the veg by hand a bit more often tomorrow.
re back teeth - yes, our local vet anaesthetised her Friday the week before (after we first saw she wasn't eating) and said one of the molars had overgrown and was pinching her tongue, plus a front incisor was overgrown, so they sorted those. Then when it didn't solve the problem they referred to CJ Hall the specialists, who did an x-ray and shaved the back molars a little more as well as removed her bottom incisors. So she'll definitely be feeling uncomfortable!

I suppose it might just mean a lot of time & care and offering veg etc until her mouth is fully recovered...
 
StormyMidnight said:
Thanks everyone :) I will try to offer the veg by hand a bit more often tomorrow.
re back teeth - yes, our local vet anaesthetised her Friday the week before (after we first saw she wasn't eating) and said one of the molars had overgrown and was pinching her tongue, plus a front incisor was overgrown, so they sorted those. Then when it didn't solve the problem they referred to CJ Hall the specialists, who did an x-ray and shaved the back molars a little more as well as removed her bottom incisors. So she'll definitely be feeling uncomfortable!

I suppose it might just mean a lot of time & care and offering veg etc until her mouth is fully recovered...
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Please make sure that 80% of the daily food intake is still hay fibre based in order to not upset the guts.
 
StormyMidnight said:
I'm assuming the CC feed takes care of that?
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Yes, as long as you keep the proportions of what you feed. You can also try to add some juiced veg or mushed up pellets to the C&C if your piggy doesn't like the taste. ;)
 
This morning I offered tiny bits of melon on my finger and she got excited and lapped it up! (she couldn't seem to get it off the plate itself) All the other veg I've grated/chopped tiny for her, even on finger after the melon, she refused. Melon was the one thing she was still able to nibble at before her surgery, so I'm now thinking it's partly psychological, she's associating the other veg with too much pain and is too scared to try them? How do I puree them, given I won't be cooking them? Would whizzing them in a processor with a bit of water be enough to then try syringe feeding her with, so that she gets her taste for them back again? Or is that not a good idea? (I can also look into baby food, but I'd rather it be the fresh veg that she always loved). It's so sad cos she's always LOVED her veg.

Oh and this morning for the first time since this whole thing she was giving little wheeks when I came with the veg :) She's looking pretty spaced out though, I suspect once she's off the meds she'll actually be a lot brighter!
 
StormyMidnight said:
This morning I offered tiny bits of melon on my finger and she got excited and lapped it up! (she couldn't seem to get it off the plate itself) All the other veg I've grated/chopped tiny for her, even on finger after the melon, she refused. Melon was the one thing she was still able to nibble at before her surgery, so I'm now thinking it's partly psychological, she's associating the other veg with too much pain and is too scared to try them? How do I puree them, given I won't be cooking them? Would whizzing them in a processor with a bit of water be enough to then try syringe feeding her with, so that she gets her taste for them back again? Or is that not a good idea? (I can also look into baby food, but I'd rather it be the fresh veg that she always loved). It's so sad cos she's always LOVED her veg.

Oh and this morning for the first time since this whole thing she was giving little wheeks when I came with the veg :) She's looking pretty spaced out though, I suspect once she's off the meds she'll actually be a lot brighter!
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It can take a while, plus manipulation is hard. When cookie had a dental we had to hand feed ting strips and cubes for weeks.

The meds will be spacing her out but are vital for pain relief, if you have ever had a tooth removed it is not just the pain where the tooth was but the bruising of the mouth around it etc....

We bought a tiny blender for veg.
 
We have a small Braun processor thing that can chop very tiny, but do we need something that makes actual smoothies as well? Can i put tiny chopped veg in the syringe and give it to her that way?

I'm getting a little worried about weight loss too, The last few days it's been: 860g, 872g, 858g, and today 840g. I'm probably not getting enough down her. She just starts struggling too much after about 5ml. How the specialists were getting 22ml down her at once, 3 times a day, is beyond me. I've managed 10-12ml 6 times a day, and having to split those to give her half hour break between them. I think part of the problem is she refuses to poo/wee when she's on the cushion with me, because when I put her back in the cage she's immediately pooing/weeing...she's always been impatient to get back after cuddles for that reason, so am about to sit with her in the pen to feed her, in the hope that helps!
 
Check up on Friday, although I was told to bring her straight in if she wasn't pooing or any other problems. I will ring them tomorrow to report on what's going on, see if they have any advice or concerns.

It's been a rough couple of weeks for her. Here's the full story:

Tue (2 weeks ago) - Noticed she wasn't eating her veg (she was trying to pick it up but not shredding it into her mouth). Saw local vet. Weighed 1000g, hadn't lost weight since her last visit, so we must've caught the problem "early" (though I think had we been checking her teeth more regularly we'd have noticed the overgrowing front one earlier - turned out she must have been eating on one side). Fed her with Recovery mush from then, appointment for shaving of tooth & checking of back molars booked for the Fri. In retrospect, I wish they'd referred her straight to the specialist at that point...
Wed night she had a seizure, I think because I hadn't got the hang of the syringe feeding and wasn't getting much down her at all, emergency vet on phone said it was likely due to low blood sugar levels. No seizures since then. (Renewed my determination syringe feeding after that! I was getting up in the night all that week as well.)
Fri she was anaesthetised and they shaved down the overlong front incisor and the back molar that apparently had been pinching her tongue, the vet thought this was the likely reason she'd stopped eating. Right up until the next vet visit on the Monday, she was still super interested in the veg and any fresh hay I added, and trying to pick it up, but unable to get any further with it. She did manage to nibble at melon, though.
Mon back for check up, the 'proper' vet was back (he was off sick the week before unfortunately, a relief vet had done the teeth shaving) and had a good feel of her jaws etc, thought that something was wrong with her bottom jaw &/or her bottom chin/teeth (showed me the red gum), and referred her to the specialist. If only he wasn't off sick the week before!
Tue to CJ Hall (specialist), they anaesthetised her straight away and x-rayed, they said all fine with jaws and back molars (other than needing a bit of shaving), but her bottom front incisors were a little loose and the gum red and sore looking, so they had to come out. Surgery was v easy and successful (indicating they were definitely loose!). No sign of any abscess or infection etc, it all seemed to be good news, considering.

She stayed with them for 2 nights, fed on Oxbow Critical Care (they offered veg as well but she wasn't interested), I collected her on Thursday evening, they kept her in till then because she wasn't pooing at all the first day & night. When she arrived home she was still doing tiny black poos but they've got bigger, not quite full size yet but a decent amount and looking much more normal, so that's good news. But, since her surgery she hasn't attempted to pick any veg up, despite going along to have a sniff, apart from as I said this morning suddenly getting excited about tiny bits of melon on my finger and ate a few of those. (not since then tho, I tried again at lunchtime)

I am now increasing my monitoring of ALL our piggies.... bought decent kitchen scales (as have only been relying on weighing at vet check ups up to now!), and am going to be checking teeth much more regularly too... We obviously have always kept an eye on them every day, watch them a lot and have cuddles with all every day, but am learning more each day on what to look for given so much is hidden, isn't it... .
 
It sounds like there is still a problem. The teeth will be overgrowing again, as she isn't eating for herself. Is there any way you could get up to Northampton, to get her seen by Simon Maddock? As Simon is able to do dental work without GA, he would be able to have a look at her teeth, and do any work needed on them, during a consult. Simon sees so many guinea pigs for dental work, that he is able to detect the most subtle problem, that other vets miss. Most guinea pigs are eating again before they leave the practice. It really would be worth the trip.
 
I don't think we could do that, we're down in London, it would be a 2-3 hour trip just one way!
I don't think it's an issue with back teeth/chewing, she chews well enough on the syringe food (and on the melon this morning), it's that she's just not trying to pick anything up in the first place, she has to learn to scoop it into her mouth now she's missing the bottom incisors, I assume (vet said that too)
 
If they can do it, they will do it within hours, not days. I have had piggies here, who have had incisors removed and all I have to do is cut the food into strips and they are eating it immediately.

If you poke the food into the guinea pigs mouth, does she eat it normally? You only have to get it past the incisors and it should be taken in normally from there, if the back teeth are fine.
 
Beckenham, it would be an hour to Euston in addition. I'll see what our specialist here says when I call them tomorrow.
I've tried to put tiny bits of veg into her mouth but other than the melon this morning (because she was actively biting at my finger to get it in), I don't know how to get it in?! (As she doesn't want it, she just moves her head around and doesn't open her mouth..). The syringe is different (and for the first couple of ml she accepts that willingly anyway).
 
It's so frustrating because right up until she had the incisors removed, even after the initial shaving at the local vet, she was still trying to pick up the veg.... now she just doesn't want to and isn't even trying (just sniffing at it).
 
Have they been permanently removed....roots removed too? If it is only the lack of incisors that is causing the issue, she would be opening her mouth for you to post the veg in and she would be eating it normally with the back teeth. Our little Maddie only has one incisor, but eats anything and everything. The only thing she can't do is bite down on veg, so things like carrot have to be grated.
 
Yes removed entirely, the two bottom incisors. She opens her mouth for the syringe, and did for the bits of melon this morning off my finger, but was not wanting the other veg I offered later on (inc the melon).
 
Have you tried her with grass? That is always the first thing our dental piggies want to eat. Are you getting plenty of poos? So why were the teeth loose? Did they say the roots were damaged by infection? Did the teeth look normal or were they discoloured? Can you feel any swelling under the chin?
 
The vet said they had overgrown downwards & run out of room there, and that had probably caused the looseness. No sign of infection, but the gums were looking red and sore. (he said no pus or abscess etc). Not sure re colouration. He didn't mention any swelling, I don't think there was any.
 
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