Hutch

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Swissgreys said:
It is not illegal to sell cages that are too small unfortunately.
Pet shops get away with it because they make lots of money, and people would be put off from impulse purchases if they had to invest in a decent sized cage from the start.
Calling a pet shop and asking about this is not going to get them to confess they have sold you a tiny cage. They have your money, and frankly couldn't care less. They will use excuses like 'it will work when they are babies', or' it could be used in the short term or for travel'.

As the owner of these animals it is your responsibility to make sure they housed and cared for adequately.
You know what the recommended minimums are, and a good owner will make sure these are met.
Taking advice form the place where people have no specialist experience, but do want your money is just making excuses.

No one on here will say it is ok to house your piggies in a cage that is too small to meet their basic welfare needs. You can keep asking the question and making excuses, but the minimum sizes won't change.
Surley you want to offer your piggies a good life, and as they will spend that life in the cage you bought for them then the least yo can do is make sure it is large enough.
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I think that’s a bit unfair to say I’m making excuses. So your basically saying I’m not taking care of my guinea pigs properly.
 
It’s not like that the people here are trying to give you advice for the welfare of your piggies as they should do guinea pigs need more room then the current cage you have at the moment but there has been lots of great ideas on here on how to DIY your current cage or bigger cages you could buy
 
Guinea lover 1982 said:
I think that’s a bit unfair to say I’m making excuses. So your basically saying I’m not taking care of my guinea pigs properly.
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@Swissgreys is not being unfair, but simply stating facts. It is up to you whether you take care of your guinea pigs by giving them adequately sized housing - we cannot force you to follow our advice. We will, however, not agree with you or support you if you chose not to.
I'm sorry you feel we being unfair to you, we simply want the best for your piggies.
 
What advice are you now looking for?
As everyone has stated, The outside hutch is far too small, and your indoor cage is also too small. Regardless if they get to spend time out of the cage, their too small.
If you can’t fit a bigger cage anywhere in your house, and don’t want to get a suitable, safe and large outdoor hutch them maybe you shouldn’t have got Guinea pigs. They are a lot of work and require a lot of space.
I’m not interested in beating around the bush. It is what it is. Everyone has told you.
Your pigs look adorable, and I wish you and them a long, spacious and fun life together.
 
Guinea lover 1982 said:
I think that’s a bit unfair to say I’m making excuses. So your basically saying I’m not taking care of my guinea pigs properly.
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Below are the excuses you have made so far on this thread:
  • I know u probs think I’m being cruel to my piggies but I don’t have the money to fork out on a bigger cage and hutch
  • Can I see how they get on in the hutch and if they start to violently fight think about buying a bigger one
  • The pet shop wouldn’t sell me it if the cage wasn’t fine
  • I gave my local pet store a call yesterday. They said your piggies are still quite little so the cage you have at the moment is fine.
  • I don’t have the space for a even larger cage etc.
  • Well it was my mum and dad that bought there hutch as one of my birthday presents. I’m not sure how they would feel having me saying they need one that’s a lot bigger .as I’m sure they would feel it’s wasted money
  • There not going to be in the cage permanently they will go into there hutch in the spring
  • I just got the cage at the pet shop when I purchased them it was the size the recommended
  • bigger hutches are massive and will take up a lot of space which I don’t really have the room for
So how am I being unfair by saying you are making excuses? Clearly you are. Constantly.
And no, I personally don't believe that keeping 2 piggies for their entire lives (which can be 7+ years) in a cage that is too small would count as taking care of them properly. It's not just about keeping them alive - it's about the quality of that life.
Sorry to be blunt, but the guidelines are there for a reason.
 
Swissgreys said:
Below are the excuses you have made so far on this thread:
  • I know u probs think I’m being cruel to my piggies but I don’t have the money to fork out on a bigger cage and hutch
  • Can I see how they get on in the hutch and if they start to violently fight think about buying a bigger one
  • The pet shop wouldn’t sell me it if the cage wasn’t fine
  • I gave my local pet store a call yesterday. They said your piggies are still quite little so the cage you have at the moment is fine.
  • I don’t have the space for a even larger cage etc.
  • Well it was my mum and dad that bought there hutch as one of my birthday presents. I’m not sure how they would feel having me saying they need one that’s a lot bigger .as I’m sure they would feel it’s wasted money
  • There not going to be in the cage permanently they will go into there hutch in the spring
  • I just got the cage at the pet shop when I purchased them it was the size the recommended
  • bigger hutches are massive and will take up a lot of space which I don’t really have the room for
So how am I being unfair by saying you are making excuses? Clearly you are. Constantly.
And no, I personally don't believe that keeping 2 piggies for their entire lives (which can be 7+ years) in a cage that is too small would count as taking care of them properly. It's not just about keeping them alive - it's about the quality of that life.
Sorry to be blunt, but the guidelines are there for a reason.
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your not guinea pig experts your just here to give people advice
 
And some people aren’t as well paid as others and what you have to realise some people may have smaller housing so there for don’t have a lot of space
 
I don't know what you are expecting from this thread in all honesty. I was sold a 100cm cage when I got my first two piggies and before I found this forum. It was sold as suitable but clearly wasn't. They didn't fight but one did end up with constant scratches as there just wasn't adequate space for them to get away from each other. I too had that expensive learning curve.

Sadly you can post on here all you like but no one is ever going to agree that your hutch nor the cage they are in are suitable
 
Guinea lover 1982 said:
your not guinea pig experts your just here to give people advice
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Exactly - I am certainly very far from being an expert.
Which I why I follow the welfare guidelines set out by expert groups, and people who are far more experienced than me.
That is the whole point of this Forum.
 
Lady Kelly said:
That's true though some members are experts through vocation and others are experts through sheer experience. I would suggest that if you don't actually want advice that you stop posting to ask for it
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I just think some of your members are taking the mickey out of me when I said some people don’t get paid as well and don’t have a lot of space in the accommodation the stay in don’t you think that is a form of social media bullying
 
Guinea lover 1982 said:
I just think some of your members are taking the mickey out of me when I said some people don’t get paid as well and don’t have a lot of space in the accommodation the stay in don’t you think that is a form of social media bullying
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Of course not.

I would love a horse.
I don't have space for a horse.
I can't afford a horse.
If I buy a horse and put it in my back garden and people tell me this is wrong, they aren't bullying me.
They are merely trying to help me see that keeping a horse in my back garden (which is actually really small) isn't the right thing to do for the horse.
 
Swissgreys said:
Of course not.

I would love a horse.
I don't have space for a horse.
I can't afford a horse.
If I buy a horse and put it in my back garden and people tell me this is wrong, they aren't bullying me.
They are merely trying to help me see that keeping a horse in my back garden (which is actually really small) isn't the right thing to do for the horse.
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Then why where they putting laughing emojis on posts saying I shouldn’t have pets that is bullying
 
To put things simply, if you don't like the answers don't ask the question.

No one is bullying or being nasty. No one is taking the Mickey. We are giving you facts. Things that have been tried and tested time and time again. These facts come from experts, rescues and science.

I've given you a solution to a larger space which you've clearly ignored.

It's got nothing to do with money. I don't have all the money in the world. I researched and saved up for a year + BEFORE getting pigs. I've had to put money away each month to ensure I have enough.

If you don't have enough money, what are you going to do when they need to go to the vets? If you deny them of medical attention, it's considered animal abuse and you could have the pigs taken off you as well as a fine or prison sentence.

If you can't afford to keep them properly, then you can't afford the vet bills. If you can't provide them with the basic care you need to hand them over to a rescue.

Your cage isn't suitable
Your hutch isn't suitable
You don't have space for anything suitable
You don't have enough money
I think it's fair for you to take them to a rescue.

Pet shops have 1 job, to sell you a product. All the cages/hutches/toys aren't illegal, they can't be prosecuted for anything. But there's plenty of ones that don't meet animal welfare practice. It's up to the customer (YOU) to make sure you're purchasing the correct items.

The fact that you are blaming everyone else for you getting things wrong is ridiculous. It's one thing to get things wrong, we all do, but to not make things right? You need to have a think.
 
Guinea lover 1982 said:
I just think some of your members are taking the mickey out of me when I said some people don’t get paid as well and don’t have a lot of space in the accommodation the stay in don’t you think that is a form of social media bullying
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Look. You come across that you want to do best by your new piggies, you’re new to it all and you obviously love them. It’s great to see you have lots of hay in their cage. That’s a very important step.
Even if you had just once said somewhere on this thread, ‘thank you for the advice, I will be upgrading their cage asap’ then awesome.. we wouldn’t be worried. But you haven’t. We just want you. And your pigs too all be happy. That is what the forum is for.
Your obviously young and trying your best. But I feel extremely passionately about small animal welfare, I will offend people for animals best interests.
All we ask is a little cooperation, we give advice and you take it. And actually lots of us on here are more ’expert’ than you as a new piggy owner. We DO know what we are talking about.
P.s for 3 years I lived in a tiny tin cottage (the size of some hotel rooms) that had 2 rooms and bathroom in total. I had 6 guinea pigs and a dog.. and occasionally birds. My guinea pigs still had around 8 foot of space. I took them on, so it was my responsibility to care and meet their high needs. No excuses. If I could no longer do that, then I would have re-homed them.
Go and take a deep breath, cuddle with your pigs, and ask them what they would like in their future. :)
 
It's not your fault @Guinea lover 1982
Many of us have been there with bad pet shop advice when we want to do our best.
C and c grids bought as a storage unit from Amazon, plus cable ties, with a cheap shower curtain base, can be much cheaper than a cage.

And this is different to a site or forum with just guinea pig lovers. There are members and staff who are the experts in the field. That is different to many sites, I grant you.

We know you love your piggies and probably feeling very stressed and stuck, between the advice here and your parents' wishes.
 
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Guinea lover 1982 said:
Then why where they putting laughing emojis on posts saying I shouldn’t have pets that is bullying
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I can't see where this is at all... please link me to this post and i will assess it and remove offending emoticon if it is there.

sorry you are feeling upset

There has been no bullying on this thread, you have asked for advice and people have gave it. You can't get a bigger cage because of various reasons- that is far enough but members aren't going to say the cage is a fine size as it doesn't meet requirements. But if you ask the question about cage size the answer will remain the same.

Maybe keep your piggies in whatever size cage you want and don't ask for advice.

i think it may be better if we part ways to be honest, your don't seem to be getting the answers you want form the forum and are getting upset, in turn members are trying to help advise but you keep asking the same questions

Perhaps a Facebook piggy group would be more of what you need support wise for your piggies, just a thought, but at the moment this is creating you i am sure annoyance at our answers on recommendations of cage size and we are all going round in circles
 
Guinea lover 1982 said:
I just think some of your members are taking the mickey out of me when I said some people don’t get paid as well and don’t have a lot of space in the accommodation the stay in don’t you think that is a form of social media bullying
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I don't get paid well, when I had my piggies, I saved to give them the best life possible, I am not an expert, but I am a very experienced piggy owner gained from nearly 2 decades of piggy ownership and by following the brilliant advice from our experts on here. 👍
 
@Guinea lover 1982 are you able to juggle furniture around to give them more space? You could get a play pen and set it up so they have access to it all the time. If they are to live outside, you will have to get a bigger hutch for them.

Unfortunately recommendations when it comes to space cannot change. It is what it is. Perhaps have a chat with your parents and see if you can keep them inside permanently. You’d save a little money on the outdoor housing.

Guinea pigs are not the cheap pets they are made out to be. You have to consider vet bills and general living costs. If you think it’s too much for you, there are options.

Do have a think and chat with your parents to see what solution you can come up with. It has to work for your piggies as they are the priority.
 
sport_billy said:
I can't see where this is at all... please link me to this post and i will assess it and remove offending emoticon if it is there.

sorry you are feeling upset

There has been no bullying on this thread, you have asked for advice and people have gave it. You can't get a bigger cage because of various reasons- that is far enough but members aren't going to say the cage is a fine size as it doesn't meet requirements. But if you ask the question about cage size the answer will remain the same.

Maybe keep your piggies in whatever size cage you want and don't ask for advice.

i think it may be better if we part ways to be honest, your don't seem to be getting the answers you want form the forum and are getting upset, in turn members are trying to help advise but you keep asking the same questions

Perhaps a Facebook piggy group would be more of what you need support wise for your piggies, just a thought, but at the moment this is creating you i am sure annoyance at our answers on recommendations of cage size and we are all going round in circles
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No, i am not a fan of facebook either.... never enjoyed it :)

I have sent you a pm.

But i will re-iterate this here because all this drama is not going to continue, i am sure we all have enough to think about in lives rather than drama on a forum.

I cannot see any sign of bullying taking place on this thread, people have been trying to help you. Some response may have been a little blunter but that is all in my opinion. I am sure no one has set out to cause any upset, the forum is a friendly place for the most part, and people care not only about piggies but there owners as well.

You are asking for advice on cage size and despite receiving it are then asking again despite receiving answers not to your liking. That is up to you, but people will respond with the same answers and after a while may get a little irked. You are free to follow answers given or not, BUT if you ask a question people are free to give you their opinions this is a forum that is how forums work.

I suggest if you don't like the answer don't ask the question again and again - just walk away from the thread and don't keep asking it, answers will rarely change on welfare standards.

You are free to home your piggies in whatever you want to, they are your pets that is up to you. take members advice, don't take members advice, just don't expect advice to change on personal circumstance because it wont on welfare issues

I understand you are autistic but people reading your questions aren't going to know this, however this will not change the opinion - they give on cage side recommendations based on welfare standards currently.

Please remember the written word sometimes comes across as harsh without any body language so please remember when reading intent of words can be different to how they are typed, everyone has really tried to help, but they aren't going to recommend a cage size smaller than the current welfare expected standards.

I really need you to think about want you want from the forum and if the forum can provide it. As obviously you are not getting the enjoyment from the community you feel you need or the advice that you may wish to hear .
 
This thread is getting closed as will be any other thread you make asking about cage size. I think upon reflection that is the sensible action to take for everyone. Please take time to read the PM i have sent you.

Just want to add people are really trying to help, so please don't take offense when none is meant. I really want you to enjoy the forum, but more importantly enjoy your piggies.

Lee
 
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